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blakes7-d Digest Volume 00 : Issue 213
Today's Topics:
Re: Re [B7L] You boring bastards:) [ mistral@ptinet.net ]
Re: [B7L] Cally in Harvest [ mistral@ptinet.net ]
Re: [B7L] Orbit [ mistral@ptinet.net ]
Re: [B7L] Orbit [ "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com> ]
Re: [B7L] Cally in Harvest [ "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com> ]
[B7L] Midsummer Night's Dream [ Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com ]
Re: [B7L] Orbit [ "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com ]
Re: [B7L] Orbit [ Ika <blake@gaudaprime.co.uk> ]
Re: [B7L] Jarvik (was Cally) in Harv [ Ika <blake@gaudaprime.co.uk> ]
Re: [B7L] Re: ADMIN: Just a test mes [ Calle Dybedahl <calle@lysator.liu.s ]
Re: [B7L] Orbit [ "rita d'orac" <orac@inorbit.com> ]
Re: [B7L] Orbit [ Betty Ragan <ragan@sdc.org> ]
Re: [B7L] Orbit [ "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com ]
Re: [B7L] Orbit [ B7Morrigan@aol.com ]
[B7L] Re: Orbit [ Ika <blake@gaudaprime.co.uk> ]
[B7L] Re: Orbit [ Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net> ]
[B7L] Re: Kerril [ Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net> ]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 18:25:19 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Re [B7L] You boring bastards:)
Message-ID: <397F8F7D.D9FFB372@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Neil wrote:
> What rat race is that, then? You don't think I work in a dead-end job with
> zero promotion prospects out of necessity, do you?
No, it's your commitment to the struggle, I'm sure :) Of course, you're
in good company with Einstein.
> And you expect me to be creative on the week I try to quit smoking?
Yes!! Morrigan's got it right (well, except maybe the angst bit). Put
all that nervous energy, that frustration, that edginess into a story, or
at least pour it into a quick rough draft and revise later when you can
concentrate better. Write an action scene. Have Cally beat up a
couple of Federation guards. Hm. I'm doing a fight scene. Maybe I
should start smoking again so I can pause again? (I never quit; I just
haven't had a smoke in a couple of years. Less stress than quitting.
Best wishes with that. Odd to do it on your hols, though?)
> Slip me the name of the planet you're on, it sounds like a really nice
> place:)
She came from planet Claire...
Mistral
--
"Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo. So little time! So much to know!"
--Jeremy Hilary Boob, Ph.D.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 18:57:40 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Cally in Harvest
Message-ID: <397F9713.D97D0058@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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David A McIntee wrote:
> > macho behaviour of that pig Jarvik
>
> The thing is, Jarvik is written quite inconsistently - with Servalan he's
> the macho pig, and with the rest he's a gentleman of honour, IIRC.
Hm, thought I was the only one who'd noticed that. Though with a
bit of effort, you can smooth away the inconsistency and perhaps
make Jarvik's early scenes less annoying--he's working as a labour
grade because he's opted out of the Space Command, and speaking
his mind about the Supreme Commander's ineffective strategy
because he's basically forthright--then the guards come to take him
to Servalan, and he knows he's pretty much screwed; he might as
well go out a shooting star, so his performance is *deliberately*
over-the-top and annoying--a last, rather macabre private joke.
Then, when she gives him a chance to capture Tarrant, both his
life and (more importantly, IMO) ego depend on winning, and she
tries to interfere just as his plan is about to payoff--with his
survival at stake, of course he uses his physical strength to keep
her from blowing it; if she ruins the plan, *he's* the one who's
dead; she always shifts the blame, and he may very well know it.
By then he's proved his worth; by the time we see them lounging
around together, he's changed quite a bit; and the fact that he
tries to persuade rather than force Servalan to accept his judgment
with regard to the appearance of the lunar module coupled with
the rest of his subsequent behaviour suggests that the early scenes
can be viewed as either anomalous, or a pretense.
Mistral
--
"Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo. So little time! So much to know!"
--Jeremy Hilary Boob, Ph.D.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 19:08:39 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Orbit
Message-ID: <397F99A6.DC85D9D9@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Ellynne, Marian:
> >Then, he brings a gun he _knows_ he won't be able to use off the ship<
>
> It's only there so he can use it on Vila - a clumsy plot device
No, he can use it off the ship, just not without Egrorian knowing about
it. Avon doesn't know about the Hoffel's radiation, so he doesn't know
that he can't get to the gun without being killed. The point was to have
a weapon available as a last resort; smarter than going down without
any means of defense.
> >(since I thought the teleport problem was getting a fix to teleport
> _onto_ a moving object [the bracelets overcoming this problem for anyone
> needing to get off], he also way overlooked a more useful escape plan [if
> nothing else, he could have said, "Vila, there's a small chance you can
> survive teleporting off this thing and no chance if you stay. Go, now."]).<
>
> Good point. I hadn't thought of that.
But they didn't have teleport bracelets. Dayna was hoping to take them
some, remember? They should have worn bracelets; or kept them in the
shuttle if they might have registered as weapons on Egrorian's scanner.
That's the real plot hole.
Mistral
--
"Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo. So little time! So much to know!"
--Jeremy Hilary Boob, Ph.D.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 22:04:32 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Orbit
Message-ID: <20000726.221417.-118753.0.rilliara@juno.com>
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On Wed, 26 Jul 2000 19:08:39 -0700 mistral@ptinet.net writes:
>
>
> Ellynne, Marian:
>
>
> But they didn't have teleport bracelets. Dayna was hoping to take
> them
> some, remember?
That was the _point_. If he'd brought a teleport bracelet or two, they
had a possible way out. They also had a way to contact Scorpio in case
of emergency.
They should have worn bracelets; or kept them in the
> shuttle if they might have registered as weapons on Egrorian's
> scanner.
> That's the real plot hole.
>
So true.
Ellynne
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 22:14:15 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Cally in Harvest
Message-ID: <20000726.221417.-118753.1.rilliara@juno.com>
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On Wed, 26 Jul 2000 21:59:15 +0200 "Marian de Haan" <maya@multiweb.nl>
writes:
>
> Absolutely. It explains a lot :-) Now we only need to find a
> reason for
> Servalan's supposition that just because Tarrant is on the
> Liberator, Avon
> would have put him *in charge*.
>
Servalan somehow had some very warped ideas about Tarrant. Given her
general treatment of Avon in S3, it seems a bit much to suppose she had
some overworked, starry eyed, schoolgirl crush or what have you on
Tarrant and believed he _had_ to be running things....
Maybe the crew managed to deliberately feed the Federation
misinformation. Or, more likely, Tarrant told everyone on his internet
chat site he was *in charge* and, after that, the rumor just took off.
Ellynne
________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 23:01:07 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Cc: Freedom City <freedom-city@blakes-7.org>
Subject: [B7L] Midsummer Night's Dream
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0726220107-b07Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
I'm taking a group to see Midsummer Night's Dream and Dear Brutus on 14 October
(Saturday). This is one of the days where you can see both plays and have a
meal between the shows as a package deal. The price is 26.95 or 37.95 depending
on whether you have a light meal or a main meal and which seats you have.
It's at the Nottingham Playhouse. I'll be staying overnight and am happy to
arrange B+B accomodation for anyone who needs it.
Let me know if you want to come.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.knightwriter.org )
Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 09:14:56 GMT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Orbit
Message-ID: <LAW-F2708M6XQQez1en00002688@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
David wrote:
<Um, no - it's always made me wonder whether it's Darrow acting well
to show us Avon can't act; or whether it's just Darrow being unable to
act...>
Bite your tongue <g> ... no, we already *knew* from Assassin that
although My Darling has a thousand and three talents and virtues
(okay, a thousand talents and about three virtues), acting skill is
*definitely* not among them.
________________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 11:01:39 GMT
From: Ika <blake@gaudaprime.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Orbit
Message-Id: <200007271007.LAA00579@smtp.uk2net.com>
> After Marian wrote:
> <By the way, why do we never perceive Vila's view of women as
> lust-objects offensive? If Avon or Tarrant talked about them in that
> way we probably *would* take offence yet Vila can get away with it.>
>
> Betty suggested:
> <IMO, it's because he's obviously harmless. He's all talk, and not
> particularly serious talk, at that.>
>
And Sally:
> With his crewmates, I think part of it is probably that Dayna and
> Soolin are clearly more than capable of putting a complete stop to it
> - and him - if they really wanted to. Vila is surrounded by women who are
> seriously tougher than he is - and in fact, the case of Vena from Headhunter
> indicates that where the woman is *not* able to take care of herself/him, he
> behaves much better ("I was a perfect gentleman"). They may get irritated at
> times, but they don't take it seriously.
>
Also, IIRC, Vila (a) doesn't really get persistent about his attempts to chat
the women up (it's usually a one-liner and a rebuff, not like he's constantly
chasing them round the flight deck) and (b) keeps it separate from "work" - you
know, he never goes 'Hey, Dayna, shame you lost that fight, but I bet there's
something you could do better, fnarr fnarr' or anything seriously slap-worthy.
I tend to get the impression he's pretty much just making conversation, and the
women on the ship recognize that.
Love,
Ika
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Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 11:10:18 GMT
From: Ika <blake@gaudaprime.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Jarvik (was Cally) in Harvest
Message-Id: <200007271016.LAA00759@smtp.uk2net.com>
> > From: Marian de Haan <maya@multiweb.nl>
> > The thing that riles me most in Harvest of Kairos (even more than the
> silly
> > macho behaviour of that pig Jarvik
David:
>
> The thing is, Jarvik is written quite inconsistently - with Servalan he's
> the macho pig, and with the rest he's a gentleman of honour, IIRC.
>
I think you do RC, but IMHO this is completely consistent: his whole "code of
honour" (which involves a lot of slavering about how great Tarrant is and how
great it is to fight a worthy opponent, and then giggling all over his nasty
sexist face when Dayna fights him, etc) is a macho pig code of honour.
Love,
Ika
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Date: 27 Jul 2000 12:35:02 +0200
From: Calle Dybedahl <calle@lysator.liu.se>
To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: ADMIN: Just a test message...
Message-ID: <86d7jzamjt.fsf@tezcatlipoca.algonet.se>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>>>>> "Harriet" == Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com> writes:
> and it looks horribly like the new system doesn't have that nice filter
> that saves my posts from being mangled the way they are on Freedom City.
If this: รถ comes across as something like =F6, then the problem is
that the new server doesn't auto-convert Quoted-Printable to eight-bit
characters like the old one did (and that your mail client isn't
MIME-compliant). Some local people have been complaining about it, so
it may improve.
--
Calle Dybedahl, Vasav. 82, S-177 52 Jaerfaella,SWEDEN | calle@lysator.liu.se
"No one expects the waterbuffalos of packet loss!" -- simes
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 07:24:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: "rita d'orac" <orac@inorbit.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Orbit
Message-ID: <382179239.964697091735.JavaMail.root@web538-mc.mail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
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I was running late this morning and caught "Godzila" (cartoon series) on TV.
Won't go into the details of the plot (yes I know I should have been at work by now), but the mad scientist referred to a "Tachyon Signal" being sent from an alien craft at the bottom of the sea. The others on the boat asked him what Tachyons were and he described them as "high density electro-magnetic paticles".
Kept expecting Avon to leap out from the alien vessel...
rita d'orac
"If you think of this mouse as a space captain..."
http://www.vilaworld.com
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 10:55:37 -0600
From: Betty Ragan <ragan@sdc.org>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Orbit
Message-ID: <39806989.A159BF0A@sdc.org>
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Sally Manton wrote:
> Bite your tongue <g> ... no, we already *knew* from Assassin that
> although My Darling has a thousand and three talents and virtues
> (okay, a thousand talents and about three virtues), acting skill is
> *definitely* not among them.
Heck, we knew that from "Gambit." Actually, I don't so much think it's
that Avon is a bad actor in general. He's just really, really bad at
acting *innocent*. He does much better in "Powerplay" when he goes for
the indignant "I have friends in high places, you know!" approach
instead of the "Oh, dearie me, I am just a poor innocent space traveller
and not a wanted rebel at all, goodness no" approach. :)
--
Betty Ragan ** ragan@sdc.org ** http://www.sdc.org/~ragan/
"Imposing Latin rules on English structure is a little
like trying to play baseball in ice skates." -- Bill Bryson
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 21:08:39 GMT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Orbit
Message-ID: <LAW-F69Xx4XFKpRcTCi00008ea0@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Rita wrote:
<I was running late this morning and caught "Godzila" (cartoon series) on
TV. <snip.> Kept expecting Avon to leap out from the alien vessel...>
The immediate mental picture of a Godzilla/B7 crossover is rather more
appalling than appealing ... :-)
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Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 17:11:44 EDT
From: B7Morrigan@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Orbit
Message-ID: <38.936d787.26b1ff90@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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> Rita wrote:
> TV. <snip.> Kept expecting Avon to leap out from the alien vessel...>
>
> The immediate mental picture of a Godzilla/B7 crossover is rather more
> appalling than appealing ... :-)
Oh, I'm going to get bashed for this by the GDL but what immediately occurred
to me was "Oh, is that where Gan got to?"
Morrigan
"When I get a little money I buy zines; and if any is left I buy food and
clothes."
(apologies to Erasmus)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 22:31:36 GMT
From: Ika <blake@gaudaprime.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: Orbit
Message-Id: <200007272137.WAA00731@smtp.uk2net.com>
Ellynne G.:
<<However, what I find disturbing is Avon's earlier treatment of Vila. Avon's
almost never like that with the crew. They know him and expect worse of him.
That cheerful good nature usually only shows up with people he isn't planning
to work with very long - most often ones he intends to con or (let's be honest)
stab in the back (usually more metaphorically than in this ep).>>
Betty:
<He's just acting really weired throughout this whole episode. Not just a
cheerful good mood -- bizarre enough for Avon -- he seems practically *manic*
(at least, to my eye). And he doesn't seem to be excersising his usual good
judgment and caution, either. My own personal theory (which will probably
surprise no one who knows me :)) is that he'd just gotten a nice, solid lead on
Blake...>
Oh, I like this theory much better than mine - this is one of my strongest Avon-
is-bonkers or possibly Avon-is-on-drugs episodes - not for the stalking and
killing but for the whole giggling manically in the face of a completely f'd-up
situation. But I think he *is* more manic than cheery (this may well be how
he'd react to a Blake lead, though). It's one of the reasons I *like* the
episode though - I find it absolutely chilling to see Avon in this state,
whatever it is.
The only thing I can think of to explain his manic behaviour is that he's just
been presented with a blatant Plot Contrivance which would completely sort his
life out, and it's disoriented him. Or maybe he's having a flashback to
Terminal (the last time someone promised him a discovery which would make them
all safe and rich forever, and look what happened!)
Which brings me on to *my* biggest gripe with the episode, which is, you
guessed it, the Tachyon Funnel. It's the *only* time in B7 that I ever get
annoyed by pseudo-science (if faster-than-light particles have only just been
invented, how come they see the planet 7 light years away blow up instantly,
huh?) It's just a terrible set-up.
Although it does mean Avon is probably having flashbacks to Star One (he also
ends up destroying the technology that could have given them the ultimate upper
hand over the Federation - although for very different reasons from Blake) as
well as to Terminal.
Actually, you can't blame him for acting a bit strange in this episode, can you?
Love, Ika
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Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 18:13:12 -0700
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: Orbit
Message-ID: <3980DE28.15FA@jps.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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> <I hate this episode for the impossible position it puts Avon in.
> (Blake is never saddled with that kind of choice. :-( )>
>
> Probably because, Blake being [a] the eponymous hero and [b] errr ...
> Blake, there really isn't that much dramatic tension in the idea of
> 'would he die for a fellow crew member'? 'cause yes, of course he
> would, and with precious little angsting over it. (Give up the
> Liberator, no. They could IMO have made more of this point in he
> torture scene in Horizon).
Or possibly because they thought they viewers would be a little too
upset if Blake *didn't* make the choice you are predicting?
Avon values few people, but values them highly. Anna Grant, who he was
tortured for. Blake, who he went into traps for. Tarrant, who he would
have traded places with when the Scorpio was going down, if Tarrant
hadn't told him it would waste both their lives. He went after Vila, but
with extreme reluctance. Given another choice, he took it.
Blake values many people. How much does he value them? He's taken risks
for his crew members, but what is the limit?
I can't predict what Blake would do in Orbit. Sometmies he could be
amazingly callous. And while Avon and Vila had a special rapport, to
Blake he was a cowardly thief (and not occaissional playfellow,
co-conspirator, and banter partner). I don't picture Blake dying for
him, though chasing him arround the shhip *is* hard to picture.
Blake would probably have thumped ORAC hard and told it to find another
way. And continued arguing with the box until they plummeted down, down,
down....
By the way, speaking of Blake (and Hary Potter avatars)
as soon as I was reading up on Mad Eye Moody, I got the image of Blake
on Guada Prime.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 18:41:19 -0700
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: Kerril
Message-ID: <3980E4BE.565F@jps.net>
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I have to come to her defense.
>
> So I'm not the only one who noticed that and got annoyed by it? Kerril is
> the classical example of a B7 female character starting out strong and then
> whimping out completely. And here it takes only ten minutes or so instead
> of a whole season. :-) The rot sets in as soon as she follows Vila's advice
> to take a bath. The message seems to be that an assertive woman only needs
> to exchange her trousers for a frock to turn into a meek dormouse.
>
Or, to look at it another way, a perfectly sweet, normal girl who likes
to flirt with an attractive, non-threatening male, can, in the presence
of dangerous criminals put up such a tough, dangerous front (and be
willing to follow through) that she can force them to respect her.
At least Vila is more appealling than Jarvik. Play dormouse for him and
he won't have the sense to know that it's a *choice* and you *could*
have chosen to put a hole through him with a laser.
--------------------------------
End of blakes7-d Digest V00 Issue #213
**************************************