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blakes7-d Digest Volume 00 : Issue 244
Today's Topics:
[B7L] Recasting and Cricketers [ "Erica Hayes" <eejayh@hotmail.com> ]
Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II? [ "Doraleen McArthur" <d.mcarthur@wor ]
Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II? [ "Doraleen McArthur" <d.mcarthur@wor ]
[B7L] Attn: Filk writers and crossov [ Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net> ]
Re: [B7L] Re:recasting [ Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana. ]
[B7L] Re: Avon's type, etc [ Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net> ]
Re: [B7L] Re:recasting [ "Doraleen McArthur" <d.mcarthur@wor ]
Re: [B7L] Re: Avon's type, etc [ mistral@ptinet.net ]
Re [B7L] Recasting as common British [ "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.n ]
Re: [B7L] Re: Avon's type, etc [ "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.n ]
Re: [B7L] Re: Avon's type, etc [ mistral@ptinet.net ]
Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II? [ Iain Coleman <ijc@bas.ac.uk> ]
RE: [B7L] recasting (was Coltrane) [ Iain Coleman <ijc@bas.ac.uk> ]
[B7L] casting, recasting etc. [ Alison Page <alison_page@becta.org. ]
Re: [B7L] Re: Avon's type, etc [ Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana. ]
Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II? [ mistral@ptinet.net ]
Re: [B7L] Re: Avon's type, etc [ mistral@ptinet.net ]
Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II? [ Iain Coleman <ijc@bas.ac.uk> ]
Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II? [ Iain Coleman <ijc@bas.ac.uk> ]
Re: [B7L] casting, recasting etc. [ Mac4781@aol.com ]
Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II? [ mistral@ptinet.net ]
[B7L] In praise of Mistral [ Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@comp ]
Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II? [ Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@comp ]
Re: [B7L] Liberator space travel [ Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@comp ]
[B7L] recasting (was Coltrane) [ Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@comp ]
Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II? [ Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@comp ]
[B7L] Thanks, Harriet [ mistral@ptinet.net ]
[B7L] Re: recasting [ Steve Rogerson <steve.rogerson@mcr1 ]
[B7L] Paul Darrow on new CD [ Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com ]
Re: [B7L] Re: recasting [ Iain Coleman <ijc@bas.ac.uk> ]
Re: [B7L] Re: Avon's type, etc [ "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.n ]
Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II? [ "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.n ]
RE: [B7L] casting, recasting etc. [ Louise Rutter <Louise.Rutter@btinte ]
Re: [B7L] casting, recasting etc. [ "Alison Page" <alison@alisonpage.de ]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 10:52:24 EST
From: "Erica Hayes" <eejayh@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Recasting and Cricketers
Message-ID: <F82t4LQsJABSCu6U5QH0000173a@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Heh heh...
Blake: Wasim Akram. Survived allegations of misconduct (??) to lead a group
of ultra-talented misfits who would have much more success if they'd just
co-operate and be nice to one another for a change. (Hmmm. Maybe I mean
Richie Richardson.)
Avon: Brian Lara. Sometimes being in charge distracts him from what he's
good at. His skill much vaunted, he can be brilliant at times but
unfortunately no one really likes him very much.
Jenna: Justin Langer. Cool, competent, smart - but we just don't see enough
of him.
Vila: Mark Waugh. Elegant, obviously an expert in his field, does some great
stuff for the team but there are times when you wonder if he's got a brain.
Gan: Inzamam-Ul-Haq. Big, can't move very fast, hangs around in the
background pretending to be something he's not, but when the restraints are
removed, he goes on a rampage.
Or maybe Shane Lee - only ever made the team because he was in the right
place at the right time.
Cally: Graeme Hick. Did a few good things early but then went soft and never
lived up to his full potential.
Travis: Hansie Cronje. Humorless, driven, chased by demons. You can't deny
he still has talent and presence but we liked him better *before*...
(Or maybe Hansie should be Avon - finds the idea of being wealthy rather
appealing, and his team mates want to punch him in the face)
Servalan: Javed Miandad. Flamboyant, scheming, can taunt the opposition past
reason and will wait forever to get his own back. If only he was on your
side.
Dayna: Saqlain Mushtaq. Small, looks harmless enough from a distance but if
you don't pay attention he'll pull a devastating weapon from nowhere and
it's thanks for coming.
Tarrant: Shoaib Akhtar. Young, brave, handsome (three good reasons for
anyone not to like him). Impressive on first sight but it's too early to
tell if he's actually any good.
Soolin: Brett Lee. An extremely fast, sometimes intimidating gun for hire
whose bark is at least as bad as his bite and who must take forever to do
his hair in the morning.
Erica.
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
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http://profiles.msn.com.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 19:27:18 -0400
From: "Doraleen McArthur" <d.mcarthur@worldnet.att.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II?
Message-ID: <000201c0115e$8554d060$70f35a0c@oemcomputer>
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From: Dana Shilling <dshilling@worldnet.att.net>
> I'm not quite sure how to interpret his reaction to Gan's death, which is
so
> disproportionate to his reaction to the deaths on the London and Cygnus
> Alpha--it could be argued that he is indifferent to the latter because he
> didn't know them very well personally, or OTOH that he went postal
> in the wake of Gan's death because of the cumulative effect.
I'd think more the former. The deaths on the London... well, the people
who were actively involved in the revolt were free to be in or out, while by
the time Gan dies he knows he has a significant amount of power over the
crew of the Liberator. More responsibility in the latter. Same argument
for anyone who was uninvolved (*were* all the prisoners involved? I can't
remember) but got shot. They're bystanders. He won't be thrilled, but I
don't think he'd be any more upset than over any of the *other* bystanders
that'd been killed because of his actions.
In Gan's case, Blake wanted him to go down to Earth, specifically tried
to convince him to go (well, tried to convince the whole crew), and made a
promise that he would pull out if things looked bad. When they did, he had
to talk Gan (specifically this time) into continuing. And then, of course,
he ended up dead.
So then we get "Trial", which is, for Blake, partly about his feelings
of guilt for talking Gan to his death and partly a calculated attempt to get
the rest of the crew to commit more explicitly to him so he doesn't have to
feel so guilty about involving them in this fight. (Er, IMO.) I think it's
so spectacular mainly because of the second issue, rather than being much
about Gan himself. Note that he didn't react that way to Cally's presumed
death; of course, he hasn't known her as long, but I think it's also
important that Cally's already a revolutionary; he didn't talk her into that
one, and everyone on the Liberator knows it. So there's no need to convince
them of his regrets.
--Katie
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 19:47:24 -0400
From: "Doraleen McArthur" <d.mcarthur@worldnet.att.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II?
Message-ID: <000401c0115e$8e45a1e0$70f35a0c@oemcomputer>
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From: Dana Shilling <dshilling@worldnet.att.net>
> Sometimes I think about the Morning Line if Orbit had involved a different
> combination of people--i.e., Soolin/Vila: 19:1 in six furlongs (i.e., the
> race
> would be over in about a minute and a half). Blake/Vila?
They would've died nobly together. (See also: "Countdown".) Blake and
Avon, on the other hand, would've gotten to "well, what's making us too
heavy, then? Obviously it's not a bum shuttle, it worked before..." and
would've chucked the neutron speck out the airlock quite a bit earlier.
Incidentally, is it ever explained why they can't just turn around and
*land* the shuttle?
--Katie
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 18:31:37 -0700
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Attn: Filk writers and crossoverdoers...
Message-ID: <39AB1279.2600@jps.net>
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I have a friend who likes to award unusual fanfic a "Wicked Fic" award.
(She's making some kind of button to send to the winners, and she'll
link your writing to her webpage if you permit with the announcement of
the win) She's trying to do this on a weekly basis, but doesn't have a
lot of submissions. If you'd like one more place to get strange songs
about the Blake's 7 crew posted, email her at LizR2@aol.com
She asked me to let you guys know about it after I shared with her my
contributions to the Blake's 7 haiku cycle.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 08:49:24 +1100
From: Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re:recasting
Message-ID: <20000829084924.A8106@welkin.apana.org.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Mon, Aug 28, 2000 at 09:50:54AM -0400, Dana Shilling wrote:
> Steve Rogerson said:
>
> > Steve Kilbane said: "Anyone reckon Anthony Stewart Head could do Blake?"
> >
> > Only if Sarah Michelle Gellar could do Jenna and Alyson Hannigan as
> > Cally.
> You forgot Nicholas Brendon as Vila.
LOL!
That would work, it really would... (grin)
"I have this complaint, there's a name for it..."
"Cowardice?"
Kathryn Andersen
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Vila (with irony): Good. Terrific. I'm really looking forward to this.
Danger, excitement, sudden death. I can't wait.
(Blake's 7: Countdown [B9])
--
_--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen <kat@foobox.net>
/ \ | http://www.foobox.net/~kat
\_.--.*/ | http://jove.prohosting.com/~rubykat
v | #include "standard/disclaimer.h"
------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere
Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 19:07:49 -0700
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: Avon's type, etc
Message-ID: <39AB1AF5.5C58@jps.net>
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> (However, if you're
> going to try to decide between T and N, I'll point out that Avon
> says in 'Mission to Destiny' that he doesn't trust intuition - doesn't
> sound very INTJ to me.)
iNtuition is quite different from Intuition (the Meyers-Briggs meaning
versus the English meaning), if you ask me.
I hate intuition (the valuing of guesswork over logic and knowlege) but
iNtuition (valuing mental processing of data into systems and creative
thought versus simply accepting information at face-value) is another
matter. I don't like the therm iNtuition for the N type because it
strikes me as less useful than say, iNternalized (seeking thought
stimulation rather than sensory stimulation). Maybe, however, I'm
misinterpreting the whole thing.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 23:20:49 -0400
From: "Doraleen McArthur" <d.mcarthur@worldnet.att.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re:recasting
Message-ID: <008901c01168$ed996d20$68f25a0c@oemcomputer>
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From: Steve Kilbane <steve@whitecrow.demon.co.uk>
> Dana writes:
> > You forgot Nicholas Brendon as Vila.
>
> True (although too young). But I think he could also do
> Avaon or Travis, considering how menacing he managed to
> be as a hyena.
I was just watching _Brassed Off_ earlier tonight and I'm now needing to
see Ewan McGregor as Vila. Though I'll admit that's not really casting
against type.
--Katie
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 22:15:08 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Avon's type, etc
Message-ID: <39AB46DB.58BCE4BF@ptinet.net>
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Helen wrote:
> > (However, if you're
> > going to try to decide between T and N, I'll point out that Avon
> > says in 'Mission to Destiny' that he doesn't trust intuition - doesn't
> > sound very INTJ to me.)
>
> iNtuition is quite different from Intuition (the Meyers-Briggs meaning
> versus the English meaning), if you ask me.
> I hate intuition (the valuing of guesswork over logic and knowlege) but
> iNtuition (valuing mental processing of data into systems and creative
> thought versus simply accepting information at face-value) is another
> matter. I don't like the therm iNtuition for the N type because it
> strikes me as less useful than say, iNternalized (seeking thought
> stimulation rather than sensory stimulation). Maybe, however, I'm
> misinterpreting the whole thing.
Fair enough; I was teasing a bit, in a pugnacious way.
But I take the M-B meaning to mean that N is relating to the ability
to conceptualize and extrapolate without hard data; to say, 'what it?'
N as possibilities, and S as realities. (And T as the ability to analyze,
to build chains of logic.) (And it is true that I don't trust my N skills
as much as my T skills. I use N when there isn't enough data for T,
or use N as a pointer where to apply T.)
Mistral (over-analyzing again)
--
"Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo. So little time! So much to know!"
--Jeremy Hilary Boob, Ph.D.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 10:08:25 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re [B7L] Recasting as common British birds
Message-ID: <003c01c0119c$51231d40$e535fea9@neilfaulkner>
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If we can have hordes of actors I hav never herd of, and now cricketers,
then I reckon birds are legit.
BLAKE : North Atlantic Gannet (Sula bassana) - large yet surprisingly
graceful, with plumage offering a strikingly black and white perspective.
Tendency to dive trustingly into deep waters. Pelagic, therefore mostly
seen to be pretty far out. (Though if I were going by American vernacular
names, Great Northern Loon would be a strong contender. If political
affinities lie in certain directions, he might even be a Red Grouse.)
AVON : Eurasian Starling (Sturnus vulgaris) - glossy black with shiny
speckles. Long beak. Voice is a consistently irritating variety of
tuneless squeaks, squawks and whines. Annoying habit of being everywhere.
Should not be confused with the Great Bustard.
JENNA : Turtle Dove (Streptopelia turtur) - slender, graceful, rather pretty
to look at but doesn't actually do a great deal.
VILA : Reed Warbler (Acrocephalus scirpaceus) - small, drab, unassuming
appearance. Spends a lot of time in deep cover, but easily lured out by its
strong inquisitive streak*. Very vocal, but song is as incessant as it is
monotonous. Noticeably flighty when disturbed or agitated.
CALLY : Chiffchaff (Phylloscopus collybita) - tiny, dull green, with
incredibly thin legs. Voice largely consists of feeble 'seep seep' calls.
Ability to always be in the bush immediately beyond the one you're peering
into suggests possible telepathic capability, but if so then nearly all
birds have got it.
GAN : Greylag Goose (Anser anser) - large, dull, ponderous and generally
unmemorable.
TARRANT : North American Ruddy Duck (Oxyura jamaicensis) - an introduced
species that has no right to be here. Decorative in appearance and
resourceful in its ability to colonise suitable sites, which might be the
underlying cause of a perennially smug expression and pertly upright tail.
Currently the subject of a controversial culling programme, which I happen
to be all in favour of.
DAYNA : Eurasian Jay (Garrulus glandarius) - gaudy and raucous, with a
pronounced sense of curiosity (though not, perhaps, a healthy one as such).
Attractive appearance belies the way it bullies smaller species. Very
rarely heard singing.
SOOLIN : Great Grey Shrike (Lanius excubitor) - predominantly grey plumage,
but nevertheless rather attractive in a cold, stark way. Largely silent,
and seen mostly towards the end of the year. Also known as the Butcher
Bird.
SERVALAN : Goshawk (Accipiter gentilis) - a majestic predator, pronouncedly
deep-chested, with many plumage phases. Known to chase after Starlings, but
will also go after larger prey. Inhabits dense and intriguing forests which
it negotiates with ease. A tenacious species, surviving all attempts at
persecution.
TRAVIS I : Raven (Corvus corax) - large, black, stern and sinister.
TRAVIS II : Coot (Fulica atra) - somewhat smaller but still black, though
nowhere near as stern and not really sinister at all. Honks a lot.
ZEN : Long-eared Owl (Asio otus) - just sits there doing nothing. What it
does when no one's looking is a mystery.
ORAC : Sanderling (Calidris alba) - very fidgety, ceaselessly pattering
about, and appears resentful at being disturbed.
SLAVE : Ring-necked Parakeet (Psittacula krameri) - recently released into
the wild and has unfortunately managed to establish itself. Almost painful
to listen to, especially given its habit of making itself heard at every
opportunity. Classified as a pest, or if it isn't then it damn well ought
to be.
*You can do this by making 'pish-pish' noises. Honest. I've done it and it
works.
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 10:33:31 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Avon's type, etc
Message-ID: <003d01c0119c$52407420$e535fea9@neilfaulkner>
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From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
> I hate intuition (the valuing of guesswork over logic and knowlege)
I wouldn't describe intuition as guesswork. More as the ability to perceive
patterns (of shape, form, behaviour, whatever) instantly without going
through all the tedious logical slogwork of checking the position of each
element, veryifying its authenticity etc.
If, for example, I see a little green bird flit out of a bush, I know
intuitively that it's a phylloscopus warbler. Shape, size, manner of flight
etc all instantly click into place. I don't have to ask myself what kind of
bird it is, because I've seen thousands of phylloscs. But to determine
which species of phyllosc it is, I have to go through the checklist of
eyestripe length and prominence, leg colour and thickness, relative wing
length, bill structure, presence or absence of wing bars etc before I
finally decide it's just another Chiffchaff pretending to be something rare.
The problem with intuition is that it's based on prior experience, so it
tries to squeeze things into pre-existing patterns to which they don't
necessarily conform. Nevertheless, it's a valuable process when speed is of
the essence, even if it can go wrong. It's also useful for realising that
54124 actually spells SARA (quick bit of obB7 there).
As for Meyers-Briggs, I classify people into just two types. Those who are
into M-B pigeonholing, and those with something better to do:)
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 01:27:25 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Avon's type, etc
Message-ID: <39AB73EC.D12D709F@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Neil Faulkner wrote:
> As for Meyers-Briggs, I classify people into just two types. Those who are
> into M-B pigeonholing, and those with something better to do:)
Like classifying birds?
Mistral
--
"Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo. So little time! So much to know!"
--Jeremy Hilary Boob, Ph.D.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 13:50:54 +0100 (BST)
From: Iain Coleman <ijc@bas.ac.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II?
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.96.1000826134938.1895C-100000@bsauasc>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Sat, 26 Aug 2000 Mac4781@aol.com wrote:
> On the same topic--liking shipmates--it was interesting to hear Gareth say
> (on THE ACTOR SPEAKS CD) that Blake didn't like any of his shipmates. He
> cared about them in the way you'd care about anyone you came in contact with,
> but there was no deep caring. He primarily viewed them as tools to use for
> the job he was trying to accomplish. While I don't accept what an actor
> might say as canon, his view of Blake doesn't contradict anything in canon.
> It's a valid, possible interpretation of what we see on the screen.
>
I think Blake was very good at caring about big, abstract things and not
very good at caring about individual people.
Iain
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 10:31:41 +0100 (BST)
From: Iain Coleman <ijc@bas.ac.uk>
To: "'B7 Lysator'" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: RE: [B7L] recasting (was Coltrane)
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.96.1000829103102.28644A-100000@bscomp>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Mon, 28 Aug 2000, Louise Rutter wrote:
> Tom and I were discussing recasting last night and came up with Michelle
> Yeoh as Dayna.
Oh yes.
Carrie Ann Moss could do Soolin or Jenna equally well -
> she's the only non-blonde I can picture as Soolin.
Dear God, no.
Iain
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 10:53:21 +0100
From: Alison Page <alison_page@becta.org.uk>
To: "'blakes7@lysator.liu.se'" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] casting, recasting etc.
Message-ID: <21B0197931E1D211A26E0008C79F6C4AB0C6F9@BRAMLEY>
Content-Type: text/plain
Hey, this has been really interesting. The cricketers were excellent, even
though I'd only heard of half of them. But really funny. Would anybody like
to do a football one? (that's soccer BTW)
In fact as I write this I just stopped to read Neil's bird analogies and
laughed out loud in the office.
On the casting of Skinner and Giles to play Blake. They wouldn't be my
choice, but I think the comments reveal an interesting perspective. Would I
be wrong in saying that people who see an association of Blake with these
other characters see him as a predominantly calm and parental figure,
somewhat exasperated by the people he is responsible for? Hmmm.. ver-ry
interesting 'und how long haf you had these feelings about your father'?
Alison
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 17:06:43 +1100
From: Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Avon's type, etc
Message-ID: <20000829170643.A10821@welkin.apana.org.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Mon, Aug 28, 2000 at 07:07:49PM -0700, Helen Krummenacker wrote:
> > (However, if you're
> > going to try to decide between T and N, I'll point out that Avon
> > says in 'Mission to Destiny' that he doesn't trust intuition - doesn't
> > sound very INTJ to me.)
>
> iNtuition is quite different from Intuition (the Meyers-Briggs meaning
> versus the English meaning), if you ask me.
> I hate intuition (the valuing of guesswork over logic and knowlege) but
> iNtuition (valuing mental processing of data into systems and creative
> thought versus simply accepting information at face-value) is another
> matter. I don't like the therm iNtuition for the N type because it
> strikes me as less useful than say, iNternalized (seeking thought
> stimulation rather than sensory stimulation). Maybe, however, I'm
> misinterpreting the whole thing.
I found it a *lot* more enlightening when I read a book which linked
the N (iNtuition) part to *imagination*. That made a lot more sense
to me. Imagination is the throwing out of ideas, the percolating of
possibilities, and, like intuition, it does consist of ideas out of
"nowhere", and it is, also, the opposite of Sensing - the
down-to-earth attention to the detailed mundane realities.
But it doesn't have the same irrational connotations as intuition.
Intuition, as whoever Avona was quoting said, is considered to be the
opposite of logic. But an INTJ (and an INTP) use iNutition and logic
hand in hand -- so obviously it can't be "intuition" in the commonly
used sense. Wheras logic and imagination *can* go hand in hand very
powerfully, the imagination disciplined by the logic, and the logic
given more scope by the imagination.
Wheras when you have an INF* type, their N function probably acts more
like intuition, because it is fed and supported by Feeling, and
therefore it's harder to define, and it works non-logically. A
powerful imagination with an F acts like empathy -- which is what
Cally would be using.
Kathryn Andersen
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"...but in future, I would prefer something a little more reliable than hope."
-- Kerr Avon to Roj Blake (Blake's 7: Horizon [B4])
--
_--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen <kat@foobox.net>
/ \ | http://www.foobox.net/~kat
\_.--.*/ | http://jove.prohosting.com/~rubykat
v | #include "standard/disclaimer.h"
------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere
Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 02:39:42 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II?
Message-ID: <39AB84DD.DA5F2534@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Just wanted to clear up a couple of small points.
Carol Mc wrote:
> > and I don't
> > think you can be said to be a true friend if you don't encourage their
> > growth.
>
> Ahhh, there's encouraging growth and encouraging growth. I suppose it
> depends on how one categorizes encouraging Avon to be part of the rebellion.
> I don't see that as encouraging growth.
Nor do I. But Blake, with his warmly passionate extraverted nature,
would, IMO, see encouraging people to work together for the common
good as encouraging growth. Group-oriented people generally (though
not always) see group-oriented behaviour as more mature.
> My Avon appears, to me, to be a colder
> Avon than your Avon. And I'm not saying cold is bad; I think it's great.
LOL. We *are* miscommunicating. I think cold is wonderful.
But even cold-natured people appreciate being liked. At simplest
level, what I have been saying all along is that Avon appreciates
warm-natured Blake's *not* trying to warm Avon up.
Mistral
--
"Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo. So little time! So much to know!"
--Jeremy Hilary Boob, Ph.D.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 02:41:16 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Avon's type, etc
Message-ID: <39AB853C.C7C243A2@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Kathryn Andersen wrote:
> Wheras when you have an INF* type, their N function probably acts more
> like intuition, because it is fed and supported by Feeling, and
> therefore it's harder to define, and it works non-logically. A
> powerful imagination with an F acts like empathy -- which is what
> Cally would be using.
Ooh, now that's a very useful insight. Nice and logical, IMHO.
Mistral
--
"Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo. So little time! So much to know!"
--Jeremy Hilary Boob, Ph.D.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 11:36:06 +0100 (BST)
From: Iain Coleman <ijc@bas.ac.uk>
To: b7 <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II?
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.96.1000829113151.28644B-100000@bscomp>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Sun, 27 Aug 2000, Dana Shilling wrote:
> I'm not quite sure how to interpret his reaction to Gan's death, which is so
> disproportionate to his reaction to the deaths on the London and Cygnus
> Alpha--it could be argued that he is indifferent to the latter because he
> didn't know them very well personally, or OTOH that he went postal
> in the wake of Gan's death because of the cumulative effect.
I think it's because he did a bait-and-switch on his crew, especially Gan.
They were reluctant to go ahead with the attack on Control, and only
agreed because Blake assured them that he would pull out if the odds were
less than even. After they realised Kasabi's team were no more, he should
by rights have aborted the mission. Gan urged him to do so. Instead, he
browbeat him into continuing. That's why Blake was so crushed
(metaphorically speaking) by his death.
Iain
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 11:38:31 +0100 (BST)
From: Iain Coleman <ijc@bas.ac.uk>
To: b7 <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II?
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.96.1000829113625.28644C-100000@bscomp>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Sun, 27 Aug 2000, Neil Faulkner wrote:
> That's the theory, anyway. Quite how it stands up in practice I can't say,
> since I don't buy commercial tie-in fiction. B7 is not exactly brimming
> over with examples, and that's the only series I'd show any interest in re
> such products. I don't see the theory standing up too well with the DW New
> Adventures, but it might with commercial ST fiction.
I reckon your theory stands up fairly well with the DW novels. They are
produced mainly by professional fans, or fannish professionals, for a
mainly fannish audience. It's just that there are enough Who fans out
there to support a monthly magazine, book range, regular audio dramas and
so on.
Iain
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 06:41:11 EDT
From: Mac4781@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] casting, recasting etc.
Message-ID: <34.9c9e4ab.26dced47@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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Alison asked:
> On the casting of Skinner and Giles to play Blake. They wouldn't be my
> choice, but I think the comments reveal an interesting perspective. Would I
> be wrong in saying that people who see an association of Blake with these
> other characters see him as a predominantly calm and parental figure,
> somewhat exasperated by the people he is responsible for? Hmmm.. ver-ry
> interesting 'und how long haf you had these feelings about your father'?
I've been pondering something along this line in recent days: images of
Blake. It seems as if a portion of fandom has a default setting for Blake of
calm, caring, compassionate, extroverted, revolutionary. Whereas Gareth's
image (per how I interpret his comments on the CD) is more in keeping with
how fandom views Avon: reserved, calculating, driven. For the former it's
usually assumed that Blake came from a warm, loving family. Gareth thinks
Blake's family was loving but not warm. He speculates that while Blake loved
his father, he had difficulty communicating with him. None of this is really
making any point, except that it's been interesting to mentally review the
series with Gareth's Blake in mind and to find how well it fits.
One of the interviewers mentioned that he thought Blake regarded the
Liberator crew as substitute family (which Gareth didn't agree with) , with
Avon filling in for Blake's father (with both relationships being stormy),
Jenna filling in for Blake's mother (Gareth mentioned he thought Jenna was
far more beautiful than Blake's mother <g>), Cally and Vila as Blake's
siblings. Gareth added (tongue in cheek) that Orac must be the family pet.
Carol Mc
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 02:55:18 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II?
Message-ID: <39AB8885.FFE2EF46@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Dana Shilling (replying to me) wrote:
> > Without the potential for dark in Avon, the events of Blake are
> > not possible. Without the potential for light, they are not a tragedy.
> Without Blake's ability to devise a scheme hare-brained well-nigh
> beyond the bounds of fiction, they are not an episode.
Aha! You see, it *is* Blake's fault!
> >but I can't ignore the fact that my brain and instincts both
> > tell me that Avon wouldn't care for someone who didn't have
> > the *capacity* at least to return his friendship;
> This is a well-argued point of view and I respect it, but (and
I see you are a gentleperson and a scholar ;-)
> bearing in mind which list this is) I rather think that Avon
> would look for yet further evidence of a cruel and uncaring
> Universe PRECISELY by choosing to care for someone whom
> he believed was incapable of reciprocation.
I don't think we even have to resort to Other List material to see
the potential for this viewpoint. An Avon who had taken the slight
turning that would shift him from my version to the somewhat more
self-destructive Avon of your fics would seem to me to be nearly
certain to punish himself in this and similar ways. Makes sense to me.
Mistral
--
"Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo. So little time! So much to know!"
--Jeremy Hilary Boob, Ph.D.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 10:07:59 -0400
From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com>
To: "Blake's 7 (Lysator)" <BLAKES7@LYSATOR.LIU.SE>
Subject: [B7L] In praise of Mistral
Message-ID: <200008291009_MC2-B166-F9DC@compuserve.com>
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Just back from a weekend away, during which I visited the Dome - not bad
for a tenner, I thought, featuring as it does the Travis zone (it's an
illusion!), the Ultraworld zone (actually a heart, not a brain, but
surprisingly similar), the Lexx zone ( a bunch of talking brains), and lo=
ts
of others...
Anyway, I haven't time to reply to some of the extremely interesting but
lengthy threads, but would like to say I agreed with most of what Mistral=
was saying. And I second Sally's recommendation of Pat Fenech's Remember=
Me.
Harriet
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 10:08:12 -0400
From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II?
Message-ID: <200008291009_MC2-B166-F9E0@compuserve.com>
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Oh, all right, I'll tackle one:
Carol objected to Mistral:
>At one point you said Blake accepted =
>Avon for what he was, then below that
> you said he was trying to persuade Avon =
>to be his best. =
Don't see the problem. Blake sees through Avon's carefully concealed
disguises, spots his potential to be "his best", and tries to focus him o=
n
that.
Harriet
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 10:09:28 -0400
From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Liberator space travel
Message-ID: <200008291009_MC2-B166-F9F8@compuserve.com>
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Betty wrote:
>Can you imagine Blake accidentally e-mailing
> Servalan with the plans for his next raid? =
Aha! Possible explanation for Hostage. Avon was actually trying to emai=
l
the news that Travis was on Xbar to the Support Group for Vengeful
Relatives of Travis's Victims, but accidentally sent it to Travis's
ex-employers instead. And he was too embarrassed to explain he'd made su=
ch
a basic technical mistake, so preferred to pretend it was what he'd
intended all along.
Harriet
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 10:09:59 -0400
From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] recasting (was Coltrane)
Message-ID: <200008291010_MC2-B166-FA00@compuserve.com>
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Iain replied to Jessica:
>> Iain, you're a genius.
>
>I hear these words surprisingly rarely.
Me too. And I published first!
And I thought of Helen Baxendale for Soolin in October 1996, though no on=
e
else seems to have offered that one.
Alison wrote:
>For that reason I think it is most interesting
> to think of recasting against superficial
> resemblance and style. It makes you be a
> bit more creative, and it brings out deeper =
>aspects of the character as you see it.
Precisely. I was trying to get away from Avon qua sex symbol. Only then=
I
found out lots of people thought Coltrane sexy. Which he is, of course. =
Well, never mind.
>Ed Harris as Travis is casting against superficial =
>resemblance. I can sort of see it. Something about =
>centred confident physicality and lack of frills.
>That's why I like this game, because now I have
> a new possible idea of how one fan (in this case =
>Harriet) sees a character.
Well, actually Ed Harris was Darren R's idea, and I threw in James Woods.=
=
This probably was Travis qua sex symbol... but my excuse is that I percei=
ve
these two actors as very intense, and intensity is what I like about
Travis.
>I have been racking my brains for good casting
> against appearance for Blake. Denzel Washington
> is a possibility, he's 'good' without being soppy,
> but I think he is too introverted.
I can't be bothered to go and check until the browser is mended, but it's=
just possible I mentioned him too. I know I was rather keen on a black
Blake, and knowing me that would have meant him or Hugh Quarshie, who is
seen far too rarely these days. This may have had something to do with a=
throwaway remark at Who's 7 in October 1996, when Paul Darrow mentioned
that they'd once discussed what nationalities the various characters were=
,
and decided Avon was South African. (No, I've forgotten the others.) If=
the actors had discussed it, they presumably did so in the time of the
apartheid regime, so I thought a black Blake and a white South African Av=
on
would throw up some interesting tensions.
Harriet
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 10:10:08 -0400
From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II?
Message-ID: <200008291010_MC2-B166-FA04@compuserve.com>
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charset=ISO-8859-1
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Morrigan wrote:
>When I hear Pope and Avon in the same sentence
> I immediately think Medici.
The Medici popes weren't very bright... or are you thinking total cock-up=
?
Harriet
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 07:07:12 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Thanks, Harriet
Message-ID: <39ABC390.1D27E46F@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Nice to know that my little pocket of insanity hasn't completely
closed off from the larger universe yet ;-) I'm now thoroughly
mortified and in need of a lie down. Fortunately it's my bedtime.
Mistral
--
"Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo. So little time! So much to know!"
--Jeremy Hilary Boob, Ph.D.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 17:57:59 +0000
From: Steve Rogerson <steve.rogerson@mcr1.poptel.org.uk>
To: Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Re: recasting
Message-ID: <39ABF9A7.2B23AB6C@mcr1.poptel.org.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
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David Henderson wrote: "Provided you DONT use David Borenaez as Avon."
Now there's an idea - dark, brooding, perfect.
Dana wrote: "You forgot Nicholas Brendon as Vila."
I thought it went without saying. Someone to play Tarrant would be
difficult - I like all the Buffy actors too much.
Helen wrote:
> James Marston (Spike) isn't really a Cockney; he's from Modesto. To my
> ear he deos the accent rather well, but I suppose you Brits can tell
me
> if it's totally hokey to your ears.
IT's not too bad. At the recent Nocturnal convention in London, he said
that Tony Head had been giving him lessons. Also, I can forgive the odd
Americanism and American twang, because any Brit who'd been over there
that long would have picked up little bits of American accent and
dialogue - that just helps make it more realistic.
--
cheers
Steve Rogerson
http://homepages.poptel.org.uk/steve.rogerson
Redemption: The Blake's 7 and Babylon 5 convention
23-25 February 2001, Ashford, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 15:17:30 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Cc: Maureen Marrs <Maureen@mMarrs.Freeserve.co.uk>,
Ann Bown <Annbown@aol.com>, Freedom City <freedom-city@blakes-7.org>
Subject: [B7L] Paul Darrow on new CD
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0829141730-313Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Paul Darrow has just recorded the role of Kaston Iago for two CDs in the new
'Kaldor City' series. This series follows on from the well-known Dr Who story
'Robots of Death' which was written by Chris Boucher who also wrote the
follow-up novel 'Corpse Marker'.
Scott Fredericks, one of the most popular guest actors ever to appear on Blake's
7, reprises his role as Carnell the psychostrategist.
Two CDs are currently being produced: Occam's Razor written by Alan Stevens and
Jim Smith, and Death's Head by Chris Boucher. Each play lasts around 50
minutes.
Cast includes:
Paul Darrow - Kaston Iago
Scott Federicks - Carnell
Russell Hunter - Uvanov (the character he played in 'Robots of Death')
Rull - Trevor Cooper (from 'Star Cops')
Cotton - Brian Croucher
Firstmaster Landerchild - Peter Miles
Firstmaster Strecker - Peter Tuddenham
Producer - Alan Stevens
Directors - Alan Stevens and Alistair Lock
Executive Producer - Chris Boucher
Cover art - Pete Wallbank
The CDs are expected to be released in the early months of 2001.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.knightwriter.org )
Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 18:22:46 +0100 (BST)
From: Iain Coleman <ijc@bas.ac.uk>
To: Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: recasting
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.96.1000829182016.28644E-100000@bscomp>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Tue, 29 Aug 2000, Steve Rogerson wrote:
>
> IT's not too bad. At the recent Nocturnal convention in London, he said
> that Tony Head had been giving him lessons. Also, I can forgive the odd
> Americanism and American twang, because any Brit who'd been over there
> that long would have picked up little bits of American accent and
> dialogue - that just helps make it more realistic.
It always sounded particularly convincing to me. What makes it work isn't
just the accent (which sounds fine to my admittedly Scottish ears), it's
the appropriate use of words like 'sod' and 'wanker'.
Iain
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 20:59:04 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Avon's type, etc
Message-ID: <006001c011f4$677fe020$e535fea9@neilfaulkner>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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From: <mistral@ptinet.net>
> Neil Faulkner wrote:
>
> > As for Meyers-Briggs, I classify people into just two types. Those who
are
> > into M-B pigeonholing, and those with something better to do:)
>
> Like classifying birds?
All the taxonomic groundwork was done years ago. I just enjoy them for what
they are.
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 21:01:13 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II?
Message-ID: <006101c011f4$687ba540$e535fea9@neilfaulkner>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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From: Iain Coleman <ijc@bas.ac.uk>
> I think Blake was very good at caring about big, abstract things and not
> very good at caring about individual people.
Isn't that pretty much what I said?
Admittedly less concisely.
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 20:16:49 +-100
From: Louise Rutter <Louise.Rutter@btinternet.com>
To: 'B7 Lysator' <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: RE: [B7L] casting, recasting etc.
Message-ID: <01C011F6.4B728FC0@host213-1-184-9.btinternet.com>
Alison wrote:
>On the casting of Skinner and Giles to play Blake. They wouldn't be my
>choice, but I think the comments reveal an interesting perspective. Would
>I be wrong in saying that people who see an association of Blake with
>these other characters see him as a predominantly calm and parental
>figure,somewhat exasperated by the people he is responsible for?
Sorry to blow your theory out of the water, but in my case you would be
very wrong indeed. Calm and parental? Hah! Dangerous fanatic more
like...I'm wondering if you would have asked that if you'd seen Tony Head
in VR5?
Louise
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 21:04:37 +0100
From: "Alison Page" <alison@alisonpage.demon.co.uk>
To: "'B7 Lysator'" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] casting, recasting etc.
Message-ID: <010301c011f4$801dc160$ca8edec2@pre-installedco>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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Louise
>Sorry to blow your theory out of the water, but in my case you would be
>very wrong indeed. Calm and parental? Hah! Dangerous fanatic more
>like...I'm wondering if you would have asked that if you'd seen Tony Head
>in VR5?
No, I don't know what that is. Ah well, this is where the 'casting to
illuminate character' breaks down, because it depends on mutual recognition.
I wonder if we could persuade Una to do a Q-study grouping fans in terms of
what other TV shows they like? Or what films and books they like? It seems
unlikely that likes and dislikes would be distributed completely at random,
but you'd need industrial strength statistics to get it all sorted out.
Alison
--------------------------------
End of blakes7-d Digest V00 Issue #244
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