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blakes7-d Digest Volume 00 : Issue 248
Today's Topics:
[B7L] birds and the characters [ Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com ]
Re: [B7L] reviews [ Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana. ]
Re: [B7L] Re: Avon's type, etc [ "Dana Shilling" <dshilling@worldnet ]
Re: [B7L] Mail [ Lisa Williams <lcw@dallas.net> ]
RE: Re: [B7L] Horizon: The B7 Apprec [ nyder@moore.britishlibrary.net ]
[B7L] Stephen Greif [ Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com ]
[B7L] Page movement [ Kathryn Andersen <kat@foobox.net> ]
Re: [B7L] Page movement [ "Alison Page" <alison@alisonpage.de ]
Re: [B7L] Recasting and Cricketers [ Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@comp ]
Re: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V00 # [ "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com> ]
Re: [B7L] Mail [ "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.con ]
Re: [B7L] Re: blakes7 II? [ "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.con ]
[B7L] Join the Q [ "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.con ]
Re: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V00 # [ Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones. ]
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 20:46:09 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] birds and the characters
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0901194609-e74Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Neil gave us permission to use his comparison of the characters with birds on
the web site and we've added illustrations of the relevent species.
The result is hilarious (well, I nearly pulled another muscle laughing at it).
Take a look on http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.knightwriter.org )
Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 07:20:01 +1100
From: Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] reviews
Message-ID: <20000902072001.B1956@welkin.apana.org.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Fri, Sep 01, 2000 at 02:49:38PM +0100, Judith Proctor wrote:
> We had a suggestion in the web site guest book that we publish reviews of
> on-line fiction as well as of fanzines.
>
> It seems like a good idea.
>
> If anyone would like to write reviews of any fiction site or of particular
> stories then we'd be happy to put the review next to our link to the site.
If folks are interested in zine reviews and online fiction reviews, I
also have a reviews page <http://www.foobox.net/~kat/reviews>
However I think there's only, like, one B7 net-fic story reviewed
there, cuz 90% of the net-fic I've been reading since I started the
net-fic reviews page has been from The Sentinel.
Kathryn Andersen
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"You're wasting your time. They won't have radio. The only technology
they're interested in is on wheels or flies or goes bang."
-- Vila Restal, on Space Rats (Blake's 7: Stardrive [D4])
--
_--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen <kat@foobox.net>
/ \ | http://www.foobox.net/~kat
\_.--.*/ | http://jove.prohosting.com/~rubykat
v | #include "standard/disclaimer.h"
------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere
Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 20:58:30 -0400
From: "Dana Shilling" <dshilling@worldnet.att.net>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Avon's type, etc
Message-ID: <011201c0147a$6117f6e0$cb6b4e0c@dshilling>
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Iain & Ika (12s of 7, by analogy with Seven of Nine):
> > Oddly, that's the same score I got.
> > Iain
> And me.
> Love,
> Ika
Well, now we know what Deva was fussing around with
in those computers.
-(Y)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 20:39:22 -0500
From: Lisa Williams <lcw@dallas.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Mail
Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20000901203553.00ad1960@mail.dallas.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Calle Dybedahl wrote:
>There is only subscribed and not subscribed. I never understood the
>point of "subscribed but not getting the posts" anyway.
It's very useful on lists which don't allow an auto-subscribe. Without a
NOMAIL option, the list owner has to resub you each time you are offline
for a bit and come back, which gets tedious. As long as you can subscribe
yourself, there's really no need for a NOMAIL option.
- Lisa
--
_____________________________________________________________
Lisa Williams: lcw@dallas.net or lwilliams@raytheon.com
Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/
From Eroica With Love: http://eroicafans.org/
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 00:31 +0100
From: nyder@moore.britishlibrary.net
To: "Mark Spencer" <mark_r_spencer@hotmail.com>,
blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: RE: Re: [B7L] Horizon: The B7 Appreciation Society
Message-Id: <20000902060252.F0EF8F8183@chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net>
----Original Message-----
>From: "Mark Spencer" <mark_r_spencer@hotmail.com>
>Horizon is not a closed system to outsiders (fercrissakes, they let me in!),
Ahem. I seem to recall saying earlier that the articles of several contributors to Zenith, my own included, would not have been published in Horizon due to the authors not being members. Fair enough, we could always join... but it occurs to me that DWM, DWB etc. don't force their contributors to take out a year's subscription as a condition of publication.
Good luck with H40, it sounds a monumental task.
Fiona
http://redrial.com/nyder/indexx.html
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 09:05:18 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Cc: Freedom City <freedom-city@blakes-7.org>
Subject: [B7L] Stephen Greif
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0902080518-b49Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
According to Cult Times, the Stephen Greif Mythmakers interview video is due for
release on 4th September.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.knightwriter.org )
Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 23:46:45 +1100
From: Kathryn Andersen <kat@foobox.net>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Page movement
Message-ID: <20000902234645.A11953@welkin.apana.org.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Anyone who's interested in my picture gallery page (with mostly B7
pics on it) -- it has moved. The new URL is
<http://www.eccentrix.com/artist/kat/gallery>.
Kathryn Andersen
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Blake: Does it support any intelligent life?
Avon: Does the Liberator? (Blake's 7: Project Avalon [A9])
--
_--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen <kat@foobox.net>
/ \ | http://www.foobox.net/~kat
\_.--.*/ | http://jove.prohosting.com/~rubykat
v | #include "standard/disclaimer.h"
------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere
Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 15:26:19 +0100
From: "Alison Page" <alison@alisonpage.demon.co.uk>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Page movement
Message-ID: <027901c014eb$77e8f600$ca8edec2@pre-installedco>
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Damn, from the title I thought there was finally a political cause I could
believe in whole-heartedly
Alison
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 12:30:43 -0400
From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Recasting and Cricketers
Message-ID: <200009021230_MC2-B1E8-89F4@compuserve.com>
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Joanne wrote:
>Given allegations of misconduct involving
> the female of the species, I'm surprised =
>Warney wasn't linked with Vila.
If that's the qualification, most of the cricketing circuit would qualify=
. =
I often wonder who the one maritally faithful cricketer of Imran Khan's
acquaintance was.
Harriet
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 19:47:26 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V00 #246
Message-ID: <20000902.115146.-88577.0.rilliara@juno.com>
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On Fri, 1 Sep 2000 08:24:42 -0800 "Lysias" <lysias@apexmail.com> writes:
> Helen:
>
> >I think you've hit the nail on the head. It feels very different to
> lie
> >to someone, versus outwitting them by sidestepping the question,
> using
> >acting skills, etc. I guess it's a question partly of... fair play?
> To
> >lie (deliberately mistating facts) is cheating?
>
> I think that the difference between lying and deception is an
> entirely superficial one. After all, the overall effect is the same;
> you have caused someone to believe something which is incorrect,
> through your own deliberate efforts.
Well, ethically, yes, you're right. OTOH, if we're just talking fiction,
misleading truths are SO much more fun than lies. I mean, how
interesting would the climax of Macbeth be if Macbeth tells Macduff he
can't be killed by any man of woman born and Macduff just says, "I think
they were lying." [Kills Macbeth] "Yep, they were lying."? Or how about
that great moment in Return of the King when the Witch King says he
cannot be killed by a man and Eowyn reveals she's a woman? (for those who
keep track of such things and may have wondered why they didn't attack
him with woman warriors sooner, I've always liked the fact that the Witch
King got hit by all three definitions of man at once [a human, a male of
more or less humanoid or at least sentient species, and singular known],
since he was attacked by a woman and a nonhuman hafling simultaneously).
I must also admit (slight pause while shuffling feet and looking
elsewhere before admitting to ethical indiscretion) telling half the
truth for purposes of misleading is (more foot shuffling) less
uncomfortable than telling a bald faced lie. Or so I've heard.
Going along with the traditional courtroom oath, the nineth or eighth
commandment (depending on whether you go with the Catholic or Protestant
breakdown) does something similar with "Thou shalt not bear a false
witness." (I know, it takes all the fun out. Even the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth leaves a little wiggle room for giving
in to personal slants and possible even delivering the whole truth in
such a way as to alter meaning [the difference between "He died
suddenly," meaning "I had no idea he had a heart ailment," vs "He died...
suddenly," meaning "Get the cops and the coroner and I hope no one's
disturbed the crime scene."])
So, I guess the question is whether Avon would be likely to tell the
truth because of some kind of ethical scruples, finding it more
comfortable than out and out lying, some kind of Avonishly bizarre
scruples (he hesitates to actually alter facts because it could come back
to haunt serious scientists or Orac), because he so enjoys ouwitting
someone with the 'truth,' or because (like the witches in Macbeth [if
you've seen one of those versions where they're hanging around silently
at the end]) he just loves to see the look on someone's face when they
find out what it is he REALLY meant (which means the odds on Avon having
something to do with the To Serve Man cookbook - or at least misleading
Vila about its contents - would be...?).
Ellynne
________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 20:27:46 +0100
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Mail
Message-ID: <0a0501c01515$640b42d0$0d01a8c0@codex>
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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Wendy,
> Can anybody tell me how to suspend the list for short
> periods, without actually unsubscribing? I went away
> for a week and I had a HUNDRED emails in my inbox!
You can sub to the digest version, but if you're using Outlook, it sends
them in a way that's not terribly easy to read. I've found that unsubbing
when I go away and resubbing when I get back is the best way, and I use the
web archive to catch up on what's been going on.
Una
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 20:38:27 +0100
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: blakes7 II?
Message-ID: <0a0601c01515$6463ea20$0d01a8c0@codex>
Content-Type: text/plain;
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Iain wrote:
> The chap who supervised my PhD once spent a good bit of time working on a
> rather obscure problem in general relativity. He solved it, and submitted
> it for publication, only to be told that the solution had been published
> in the 50s in some Russian journal that nobody ever reads. I know how he
> felt.
I just got back from a postgrad summer school where we were all in the
middle of our PhDs. Someone told me a story of how she was going past the
back of the library of Trinity College Dublin, and saw a skip full of PhD
theses. I feel much better knowing that mine is substantially electronic.
ObB7? Well, you've had absolutely loads of bloody brilliant threads while
I've been away, you bastards, so I'm taking my brilliant insight away in a
huff.
Una
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 20:57:33 +0100
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: "B7 List" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Join the Q
Message-ID: <0aa201c01518$0f013670$0d01a8c0@codex>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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Alison:
> I wonder if we could persuade Una to do a Q-study grouping fans in terms
of
> what other TV shows they like?
Not in this lifetime!
> Or what films and books they like? It seems
> unlikely that likes and dislikes would be distributed completely at
random,
> but you'd need industrial strength statistics to get it all sorted out.
<brrr...> That's the key point, actually - I don't think it's a Q study,
more of a survey, and they're fundamentally different things (Q methodology
doesn't group fans or people to start with, but now I'm getting boring).
Neil:
> Una's study involved the ranking of a closed set of elements (the
episodes)
> which every participant was presumed to be familiar with, or at least
seen,
> whereas a study of the sort you're suggesting would involve an effectively
> open set where every participant would be drawing on elements they've
> selected for themselves. Whether or not a Q-study could work in such a
way,
> I don't know. But I suspect not. Not everyone reads books. Some don't
go
> to the cinema too often. There are even those who don't watch television.
> Methodology could be a serious problem here.
Inventing your way out of methodological problems is what it's all about.
Iain:
> Una's not around at the moment (off doing productive research, I think),
Yup (well, the week before last). Fifteen interviews in four days. And the Q
sort got coffee spilt on it round about interview number 3. It's a jungle
out there.
> or I'd just wait for her to answer this one. My own understanding of Q
> methodology is deeply superficial, but from the chats I've had with Una I
> gather the issues you raise aren't hugely problematic. The advantage of
> the very strictly bounded B7 study was that people could self-report their
> conclusions in a well-defined way. In more open studies, the researcher
> typically has to conduct interviews.
I think the answer is somewhere between the two: Neil's right that the
content of a Q sort has to be meaningful to the participants, but the B7
study was unusual in that I had a ready made set of Q statements, i.e. the
episode titles, which already made sense to the people I wanted to study.
Other studies I've done start from a much earlier point, and involve
developing the Q sort in a variety of highly skilful and deeply perceptive
ways <ahem> such as interviews, textual analysis, etc. etc., as you say,
Iain.
Drawing on something Mistral wrote:
> I wonder if a simpler way might be
> to ask fans if they've noticed a pattern or theme in the books and
> shows they like?
I could envisage doing a Q study using statements like: 'I like stories
which are about polictical activism'; 'I like science fiction'; 'I like
fantasy'; 'I like dystopic fiction'; 'I like character-driven stories'; 'I
like romance fiction' etc. etc., but I don't think that would quite do what
Alison was after, which would indeed involve industrial strength statistics
and, as Garak says about all suicide missions, is well outside my field of
expertise.
> Perhaps we could arrange a grant.
God Bless You, Iain, and All Who Sail in You.
Una
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 19:19:50 +0100
From: Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V00 #246
Message-ID: <FXGGstAGTUs5Ewd4@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <20000902.115146.-88577.0.rilliara@juno.com>, Ellynne G.
<rilliara@juno.com> writes
>So, I guess the question is whether Avon would be likely to tell the
>truth because of some kind of ethical scruples, finding it more
>comfortable than out and out lying, some kind of Avonishly bizarre
>scruples (he hesitates to actually alter facts because it could come back
>to haunt serious scientists or Orac), because he so enjoys ouwitting
>someone with the 'truth,' or because (like the witches in Macbeth [if
>you've seen one of those versions where they're hanging around silently
>at the end]) he just loves to see the look on someone's face when they
>find out what it is he REALLY meant (which means the odds on Avon having
>something to do with the To Serve Man cookbook - or at least misleading
>Vila about its contents - would be...?).
Judging him by some of the INT scientists on this list - all of them at
once. (yes, I include myself in that remark, I'm not embarrassing the
others by mentioning names).
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
--------------------------------
End of blakes7-d Digest V00 Issue #248
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