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blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 120
Today's Topics:
[B7L] What makes a fan?
[B7L] Re: Christopher Wheatley
Re: [B7L] re Christopher Wheatley
Re: [B7L] Re: The good ones in Season 4
[B7L] Re: Christopher Wheatley
[B7L] Pooh and company
[B7L] Research
Tigger (Re: [B7L] New frame captures)
Seven as Pooh (was Re: [B7L] New frame captures)
Re: [B7L] New frame captures
[B7L] Re: Fans and Memorabilia
Re: [B7L] Deliverance pros & cons
Re: [B7L] Research
Re: [B7L] A.N.G.E.L.S
Re: [B7L] Re: The good ones in Season 4
[B7L] Re The good ones in Season 4
[B7L] Re: Research
Re: [B7L] The good ones in season 4
Re: [B7L] The good ones in season 4
Re: [B7L] Captures and Kinks
Re: [B7L] The good ones in season 4
[B7L] Re The good ones in Season 4
Re: [B7L] Captures and Kinks
Re: [B7L] Types of fan (was Re Christopher Wheatley)
Re: [B7L] The good ones in season 4
Re: [B7L] Re The good ones in Season 4
Re: [B7L] What makes a fan? (new question)
Re: [B7L] The good ones in season 4
[B7L] fans and memorabilia
Re: [B7L] Research
Re: [B7L] Re: Fans and Memorabilia
[B7L] fandom
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 08:00:31 +1000 (EST)
From: kat@welkin.apana.org.au (Kathryn Andersen)
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se (Blake's 7 list)
Subject: [B7L] What makes a fan?
Message-Id: <m0yS7ZA-0008r9C@welkin.apana.org.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Interesting question.
Answer #1: If someone considers themself to be a fan, they are a fan.
Answer #2: There are certain sufficient, but not neccessary
conditions, that would indicate to someone *else* that someone is a
fan, but even if someone meets these conditions, they may not be a
fan... (yeah, confusing). What I mean is, you can give a list of
things that fans do, and say "that is a fan", but not every fan does
them, and not every fan has to do them to be a fan.
Okay, specific examples:
- watching the series repeatedly
- collecting the series on video
- reading interviews
- collecting memorabilia
- joining fan clubs
- going to conventions
- joining mailing lists
- posting to mailing lists
- creating web-pages
- reading/buying fanzines
- writing fanfic
- editing fanzines
These are indications, but you don't have to, for example, have piles
of Starlogs in your basement to be considered a fan. Me, I don't
usually buy such magazines, though I did sit and read someone *else's*
entire collection of Blake's 7 monthlys when I first discovered
fandom.
Being a fan is different for everyone.
Me, I have my own personal rule of thumb about whether *I* am a fan of
something, as disinct from being merely just interested, and it is a
rule-of-thumb that I wouldn't dream of applying to anyone else. The
rule is this: if I've written fanfic/poetry about a universe, then I'm
a fan of it. By that rule, I'm a fan of:
Blake's 7 (most heavily)
Doctor Who
Highlander
Sapphire & Steel
UFO
The Champions
VR.5
Babylon 5
Robotech
Bladerunner
Forever Knight
Ocean Girl
which is a pretty reasonable rule of thumb; a few of these I am no
longer a fan of, but I used to be, and there are a few universes (such
as The Pretender or S:AAB) for which I would *like* to write
something, but haven't yet. But for me, if I am so into a series that
it touches my heart and mind enough to write poetry or fanfic about
it, then I've got to be a fan of it. If I just like watching it, even
if I am really regular at watching it, then I'm just an Interested
Party, and not a fan.
But for people who don't write fanfic at all, then that rule simply
can't apply. People can say whether they themselves think they are a
fan of something, but to try to apply one's personal rule-of-thumb to
someone else, and if they don't fit, to declare that they aren't a
"real fan", is exclusive and divisive.
Someone is a fan if they think they are.
Kathryn Andersen
--
_--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
/ \ | http://connexus.apana.org.au/~kat
\_.--.*/ | #include "std/disclaimer.h"
v |
------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere
Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 10:52:22 +0000 (GMT)
From: Una McCormack <umm10@eng.cam.ac.uk>
To: Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Re: Christopher Wheatley
Message-ID: <Pine.PCW.3.96.980423104344.7527A-100000@umm-pc.jims.cam.ac.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Jackie said:
>Perhaps I made the mistake of assuming that someone who said he was a
>fan of Blakes 7 since the beginning would have a collection of
>memorabilia. Although I have yet to meet a *fan* who does not collect
>memorabilia. Perhaps Chris (and yourself) are the first. Is there anyone
>esle on the list who is a fan of Blakes 7 and does not collect
>memorabilia?
Depends what you mean by memorabilia, I suppose. I pretty much only buy
the odd zine these days (and the new video releases): when I got into
fandom the first time (1989) I bought a bit of Horizon stuff, but couldn't
really afford all that much because I was a student. When the programme
was on originally I was only 9 and didn't have much in the way of
disposable income! ;) These days I just don't seem to want to collect
stuff - I don't buy artwork, I don't buy costumes, I don't buy merchandise
from fanclubs, I don't buy posters or stickers or T-shirts or mugs (except
for other people). I came away from Deliverance with 20 quids worth of
zines and a nice buzz about all the fun I'd had meeting and chatting to
people.
(I also inherited my brother's B7 collection from when he was a fan in the
early 80s, so perhaps the pressure isn't there so much! - i.e. the
Monthly, rather too many issues of Starburst, a nice set of zines, his LPF
newsletters - yeah! I remember them too!!)
And yet as I spend substantial amounts of time chatting and thinking
and writing about Blake's 7 I suppose I could only call myself a fan. But
I don't think I spend that much money on it - particularly as the e-mail
connection comes free with work! ;)
Una
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy
enough people to make it worth the effort.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Judge Institute of Management Studies Tel: +44 (0)1223 766064
Trumpington Street Fax: +44 (0)1223 339701
Cambridge
CB2 1AG http://www.sticklebrock.demon.co.uk/una
United Kingdom http://www.jims.cam.ac.uk/research/ion/
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 11:02:44 +0000 (GMT)
From: Una McCormack <umm10@eng.cam.ac.uk>
To: Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] re Christopher Wheatley
Message-ID: <Pine.PCW.3.96.980423110134.7527C-100000@umm-pc.jims.cam.ac.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Tom said:
>I'd like to class myself as a fan. I'm a fairly newly-uplifted one,
>having seen it when very young, vaguely thought about it sometimes, and
>then having a girlfriend who raised me to "active" fan status by having
>all the videos (and it's all Una's fault :-).
Does putting that up on a mailing list make that libel or slander?
Una ;)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy
enough people to make it worth the effort.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Judge Institute of Management Studies Tel: +44 (0)1223 766064
Trumpington Street Fax: +44 (0)1223 339701
Cambridge
CB2 1AG http://www.sticklebrock.demon.co.uk/una
United Kingdom http://www.jims.cam.ac.uk/research/ion/
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 11:08:58 +0000 (GMT)
From: Una McCormack <umm10@eng.cam.ac.uk>
To: Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: The good ones in Season 4
Message-ID: <Pine.PCW.3.96.980423110610.7527D-100000@umm-pc.jims.cam.ac.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Pat wrote:
>>brent@ntr.net wrote:
>>
>> The Ugly:
>> Animals (How can these thugs be causing so much trouble if we've never
>> heard of them?)
>> Animals (Why do they look like 20th century punks?)
>> Animals (Egads, that hair!)
>
>You're thinking of Stardrive, dear. The punk riding-mower morons, the
>troll hair-dos.
See! Vindication! I *knew* that it couldn't be 'Animals' you all hated!
(Be still, my beating Og, the hour is nigh. Soon the whole world will be
in my power and they shall all know the delights of 'Animals'...)
Una
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy
enough people to make it worth the effort.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Judge Institute of Management Studies Tel: +44 (0)1223 766064
Trumpington Street Fax: +44 (0)1223 339701
Cambridge
CB2 1AG http://www.sticklebrock.demon.co.uk/una
United Kingdom http://www.jims.cam.ac.uk/research/ion/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 11:12:42 +0000 (GMT)
From: Una McCormack <umm10@eng.cam.ac.uk>
To: Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Re: Christopher Wheatley
Message-ID: <Pine.PCW.3.96.980423111152.7527E-100000@umm-pc.jims.cam.ac.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Alison said:
>PS - Oh No, I've got a Myers Briggs comment coming on.. <strains
>womanfully>.. phew.. kept it under control
Go on - I dare you!
BTW, Christopher, what's it like to have a thread named after you?
Una
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy
enough people to make it worth the effort.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Judge Institute of Management Studies Tel: +44 (0)1223 766064
Trumpington Street Fax: +44 (0)1223 339701
Cambridge
CB2 1AG http://www.sticklebrock.demon.co.uk/una
United Kingdom http://www.jims.cam.ac.uk/research/ion/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 11:14:40 +0000 (GMT)
From: Una McCormack <umm10@eng.cam.ac.uk>
To: Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Pooh and company
Message-ID: <Pine.PCW.3.96.980423111412.7527F-100000@umm-pc.jims.cam.ac.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
There is a Pooh / Blake's 7 crossover story on 'The Aquitar Files'
Una
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy
enough people to make it worth the effort.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Judge Institute of Management Studies Tel: +44 (0)1223 766064
Trumpington Street Fax: +44 (0)1223 339701
Cambridge
CB2 1AG http://www.sticklebrock.demon.co.uk/una
United Kingdom http://www.jims.cam.ac.uk/research/ion/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 11:59:20 +0000 (GMT)
From: Una McCormack <umm10@eng.cam.ac.uk>
To: Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
cc: Space City <space-city@world.std.com>
Subject: [B7L] Research
Message-ID: <Pine.PCW.3.96.980423114002.7527K-100000@umm-pc.jims.cam.ac.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Wow! What a *terrific* response! You're all being extremely kind, and I
think you'll enjoy it.
Other people who haven't offered to take part - go on! You know you want
to! ;)
What I envisage will have a couple of stages:
1. I'm going to ask you to rank order all the episodes according to a
specific pattern in a scale ranging from 'most like' to 'most dislike',
and provide comments on why you've put particular episodes at extremes.
2. I then go away and do some number-crunching and try to find out if any
of you have come up with shared / similar preferences for combinations of
episodes.
3. In the meantime, you all keep up this fascinating discussion about what
B7 fandom means to you. Talk about it more! What about:
- B7 fandom
- your experience of it
- how you perceive yourself as fan
- how you perceive other people as fans
- what's important to you as a B7 fan
- what activities are important to 'being a fan' (or not)
There's no holds barred on this discussion (***except within the confines
of the rules of Lysator, obviously***) - I want you to tell me about why
it is that everyday (mostly) you sit and pen responses to a mailing list
devoted to 48 hours of BBC TV that (in the UK at least) haven't been
transmitted since 1982!!
4. When we've burned this discussion out, with the permission of the
people who have posted, I will sample what you have all been saying and
come up with about 40/50 statements about B7 fandom and being a fan. Then
I'll ask people to rank these statements again, in a specific order, this
time from 'most agree' to 'most disagree'.
5. Then, back to me for the number crunching, and try to find out whether
there are shared perspectives on fandom, and what these are. I'll come
back to you all with my interpretations of these, and you can tear what
I've interpreted to shreds until we reach agreement on these shared
perspectives are.
6. Then the nice bit - are there any relationships between the shared
preferences for episodes and people's experience of being a fan?
I'm in the process of setting up little website which will have fuller
instructions for people, and explain how I want you to rank the episodes
and how I'd like you to report your rankings out to me. All the people who
have responded and offered to participate I will contact personally with
the details, but I shall also post up the URL on these mailing lists so
that anyone else who would like to take part can have the opportunity to
do so.
I am *extremely* grateful that people have offered to do this. I'll ask
you to be patient with me as I put up the website, for 2 good reasons:
1. This takes a bit of organization and I'll be doing it in my spare time
('You have spare time?!?' people cry. 'You lucky woman!')
2. I'm rubbish at HTML :(
Let's give it a go and see what come out!
Una
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy
enough people to make it worth the effort.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Judge Institute of Management Studies Tel: +44 (0)1223 766064
Trumpington Street Fax: +44 (0)1223 339701
Cambridge
CB2 1AG http://www.sticklebrock.demon.co.uk/una
United Kingdom http://www.jims.cam.ac.uk/research/ion/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 20:32:59 +1000
From: Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Tigger (Re: [B7L] New frame captures)
Message-ID: <19980423203259.27683@welkin.apana.org.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Thu, Apr 23, 1998 at 12:01:46AM -0700, Tramila wrote:
> Tramila wrote:
> >>but if that will get you to consider the episode than go for it.
> <bounce> Tramila really needs >to see lots of Vila pics.
>
> Nicola wrote:
> >*sigh* Take cover, everyone, she's channeling Tigger again ;-)
>
> Tigger? I never knew who Tigger was until my FK friends used that name and
> mine in the same sentence. hummmmmmmm. I guess one of these days I'm
> going to have to watch that show. <shudder> maybe not. Maybe I can watch
> for the grandkids and if I am very, very lucky that will be in a very long
> time. <g>
No, no, no! Do *not* watch the show that calls itself "Winnie the
Pooh". Please do not. It is a travesty. Read the original books.
They are fun.
ObB7: so, do you think that reading was a lost art by the time of
Blake's 7?
Kathryn
A.S.K.S.
--
_--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
/ \ | http://connexus.apana.org.au/~kat
\_.--.*/ | #include "std/disclaimer.h"
v |
------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere
Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 20:48:24 +1000
From: Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Seven as Pooh (was Re: [B7L] New frame captures)
Message-ID: <19980423204824.24026@welkin.apana.org.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Thu, Apr 23, 1998 at 05:35:45PM +1000, Bill Billingsley wrote:
> Which Pooh characters would you cast in which roles....
>
> Christopher Robin - Blake
> Pooh - Tarrant
> Rabbit - Avon
> Piglet - Vila
> Eeyore - Gan
> Owl - Cally
> Kanga - Jenna
> Roo - Dayna
No...
Pooh - Gan
Piglet - Vila
because Pooh is a gentle, kind bear, though of little brain,
and Piglet is his timid friend, which I think is a good representation
of the Gan-Vila relationship
I agree with Calle - Owl is Orac.
Yes, Avon is probably Rabbit.
Tarrant is Tigger - very boucy and impulsive. Tarrant isn't like Pooh
at all!
I don't think there *is* an Eeyore character in the Seven, there isn't
anyone who's really terminally depressed like Eeyore is - unless you
count Slave?
So who do we have left?
Kanga and Roo, Cally, Jenna, Dayna, Soolin, Zen, Servalan and Travis.
Hmmm, not enough to go around.
--
_--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
/ \ | http://connexus.apana.org.au/~kat
\_.--.*/ | #include "std/disclaimer.h"
v |
------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere
Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 06:52:08 -0500
From: Lisa Williams <lcw@dallas.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] New frame captures
Message-Id: <199804231147.GAA28958@mail.dallas.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Tramila wrote:
>Tigger? I never knew who Tigger was until my FK friends used that name and
>mine in the same sentence. hummmmmmmm. I guess one of these days I'm
>going to have to watch that show.
Books. Not "show". Books. You know, the paper things.
- Lisa
_____________________________________________________________
Lisa Williams: lcw@dallas.net or lwilliams@ti.com
Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/
New Riders of the Golden Age: http://www.warhorse.com/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 08:22:38 -0400
From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Re: Fans and Memorabilia
Message-ID: <199804230822_MC2-3AC6-8690@compuserve.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Shela wrote:
>Since no one is expressing any *passion* for the
>fandom in this thread, I'll be the first.
Oh, yes, I was sort of taking the passion thing for granted. Though not
necessarily using passion and lust as synonyms. Passion is for the whole
phenomenon (well, except most of fourth season); lust for the occasional
black silk shirt.
>I don't collect "fan memorabilia" -- I'm not interested
>in "teleport bracelets"
I confess I did order a teleport bracelet at the end of December. Waiting
anxiously for Horizon to get enough orders to have a batch made. (Mrs
Taylor assures me that the order did arrive.) And to console myself in the
meantime, I got a keyring with a picture of Vila. For some reason, I don't
think of these as memorabilia, or as essential fan accessories, just as
items that took my fancy.
Harriet
PS I though we agreed last time that Tigger was Tarrant? And what is the
case against Eeyore = Avon?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 08:29:00 -0400
From: Fiona Scarlett <fifitrix@compuserve.com>
To: Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Deliverance pros & cons
Message-ID: <199804230829_MC2-3ACA-A533@compuserve.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>>
>>> It is, after all, simply
>>>an opinion. It rolls off my back like water off a duck. I trust that we
>>>all can respect the words of (Thomas Jefferson?) who said something
>>>like: "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death
>>>your right to say it."
>>>Pat P
>>
>>hear! hear!
>>
>>I didn't go to/organize the CON either and I have to say - having heard a
>first hand account
>>of it from Jenni - that it sounded like I missed a really great time. Any
>party/convention/
>>event is going to have its problems and I have yet to hear any criticism
>of the Con that was
>>not constructive. That said, I do understand that when you have worked
>really hard on
>>something it can be difficult to take critism and often it can feel personal.
>>Anyone who organises an event which people pay money to attend has to be
>prepared to deal
>>with complaints about it.
>>so I say - grow up DIVA! - Adults can deal with this kind of thing in a
>professional manner
>>and do not have to resort to flaming. I am a Customer Support
>Professional and even the
>>nastiest and most Foul-mouthed customers (which Kathryn was clearly NO
>WHERE NEAR) can be
>>dealt with in a civil manner.
>>
>>As for the issue of Diva remaining anonymous - Having called herself a CON
>organiser
>>then she should have identified herself.
>>
>>Right - Rant over!
>>
>>Fifitrix
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>fifitrix@compuserve.com
>>fscarlett@hotmail.com
>>
>>
>Can I just point out that at no time did Diva claim to be one of
>"Deliverance's" organisers. "Deliverance" had three committee members, or
>"organisers", and Diva was not one of them. Diva was one of "Deliverance's"
>staff. Thank you.
>
>Judith
>
I stand corrected. Thinking about my response above (as I was in bed at about 2 this morning)
I came to the conclusion that I should have qualified it, by saying that I had not picked up any
e-mail for 2 weeks, and therefore all the furore was still fresh for me. Apologies to anyone
who was glad that this was all over. Also apologies to the organisers of Deliverance as I
got the facts wrong.
<red face............ashamed mostly lurker really regrets saying anything.....>
going back to mostly lurking as shoving my head above the parapet seems to land me in trouble.
(my own fault you understand.....my teachers always said that I didn't read the question
properly..........as did my university lecturers.......too impatient I guess.......should
read WHOLE email and not just skim through extracting its essence...and in this case missing
vital information................Oh lets face it I'm just CRAP aren't I ?)
I'm going to lie down in a dark room.
or failing that I'm going to eat some Chocolate.
or possibly both.
fifitrix
xxx
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 23:01:15 +1000
From: Wainwrights <sijac@eisa.net.au>
To: Una McCormack <umm10@eng.cam.ac.uk>, Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Cc: Space City <space-city@world.std.com>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Research
Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980423230115.0079d100@mail.eisa.net.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:59 23/04/98 +0000, Una McCormack wrote:
>Wow! What a *terrific* response! You're all being extremely kind, and I
>think you'll enjoy it.
>
>Other people who haven't offered to take part - go on! You know you want
>to! ;)
>
>
>What I envisage will have a couple of stages:
>
>1. I'm going to ask you to rank order all the episodes according to a
>specific pattern in a scale ranging from 'most like' to 'most dislike',
>and provide comments on why you've put particular episodes at extremes.
>
>2. I then go away and do some number-crunching and try to find out if any
>of you have come up with shared / similar preferences for combinations of
>episodes.
>
>3. In the meantime, you all keep up this fascinating discussion about what
>B7 fandom means to you. Talk about it more! What about:
>
>- B7 fandom
>- your experience of it
>- how you perceive yourself as fan
>- how you perceive other people as fans
>- what's important to you as a B7 fan
>- what activities are important to 'being a fan' (or not)
>
>There's no holds barred on this discussion (***except within the confines
>of the rules of Lysator, obviously***) - I want you to tell me about why
>it is that everyday (mostly) you sit and pen responses to a mailing list
>devoted to 48 hours of BBC TV that (in the UK at least) haven't been
>transmitted since 1982!!
>
>4. When we've burned this discussion out, with the permission of the
>people who have posted, I will sample what you have all been saying and
>come up with about 40/50 statements about B7 fandom and being a fan. Then
>I'll ask people to rank these statements again, in a specific order, this
>time from 'most agree' to 'most disagree'.
>
>5. Then, back to me for the number crunching, and try to find out whether
>there are shared perspectives on fandom, and what these are. I'll come
>back to you all with my interpretations of these, and you can tear what
>I've interpreted to shreds until we reach agreement on these shared
>perspectives are.
>
>6. Then the nice bit - are there any relationships between the shared
>preferences for episodes and people's experience of being a fan?
>
>
>I'm in the process of setting up little website which will have fuller
>instructions for people, and explain how I want you to rank the episodes
>and how I'd like you to report your rankings out to me. All the people who
>have responded and offered to participate I will contact personally with
>the details, but I shall also post up the URL on these mailing lists so
>that anyone else who would like to take part can have the opportunity to
>do so.
>
>
>I am *extremely* grateful that people have offered to do this. I'll ask
>you to be patient with me as I put up the website, for 2 good reasons:
>
>1. This takes a bit of organization and I'll be doing it in my spare time
>('You have spare time?!?' people cry. 'You lucky woman!')
>
>2. I'm rubbish at HTML :(
>
>
>Let's give it a go and see what come out!
>
>
>Una
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy
>enough people to make it worth the effort.
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>The Judge Institute of Management Studies Tel: +44 (0)1223 766064
>Trumpington Street Fax: +44 (0)1223 339701
>Cambridge
>CB2 1AG http://www.sticklebrock.demon.co.uk/una
>United Kingdom http://www.jims.cam.ac.uk/research/ion/
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 06:25:24 -0800
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: pussnboots@geocities.com
CC: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] A.N.G.E.L.S
Message-ID: <353F4F53.5165@jps.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Pat Patera wrote:
>
> Helen Krummenacker wrote: re:
> > Graham, Gregory wrote:
> > > Except for those of us who have already become too powerful to be
> > > limited to chairman/president. One will only settle for Supreme
> > > Commander.
> > In that case, I think I'll apply for position of Goddess. :)
> I do hope you're practicing your quick draw, grrl, cuz that title is
> already taken and if you want to fight over it, you'll have to do battle
> with the Golden Goddess Soolin.
> Pat P
> Acolyte at the Temple of the Golden Goddess Soolin
Ah, but I could never be a _Golden_ Goddess. She can be the Golden
Goddess, and I'll be...
Silver Goddess, or Dark-eyed Goddess, or Machivellian Goddess...
Why am I explaining myself to you? As a member of Meglomaniacs
Anonoymous--
HEY! A meglomaniac would NEVER be anonymous.
<g> Avona
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 06:32:20 -0800
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: Tramila <cdmunoz@earthlink.net>
CC: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: The good ones in Season 4
Message-ID: <353F50F3.505D@jps.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Tramila wrote:
>
> Pat wrote:
>
> >Plus, I'll never forgive the producers for not strapping Avon into that
> >chair, at the mercy of Servalan priming him to kill Blake: I can hear
> >Avon growling now: "I hate him! I *hate* him!"
>
> LOL The imaginary Pat. Oh MY!!!!
> You have GOT to wrote this story!!!!
>
> Tramila
I usually don't write "Me, too"s, but as soon as I read that idea... it
would be SO much more believable, and it would give the shooting a new
twist. And Avon would be so fearsome growling at the picture. And yes,
let Dayna go hunting instead..
Write the story, write the story.
Helen, aka Avona
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 15:16:23 +0100 GMT
From: STEVE.ROGERSON@MCR1.poptel.org.uk
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re The good ones in Season 4
Message-Id: <498296857MCR1@MCR1.poptel.org.uk>
How can Dangermouse possible describe Animals as
"unmitigated worthless crap" with all that brilliant character
acting by David Boyce. Humph!
cheers
Steve Rogerson
Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/
"The workers united will never be ignited"
Guards! Guards! - Terry Pratchett
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 15:49:52 +0000 (GMT)
From: Una McCormack <umm10@eng.cam.ac.uk>
To: Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Re: Research
Message-ID: <Pine.PCW.3.96.980423154537.3503A-100000@umm-pc.jims.cam.ac.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Iain wrote about the Journal of Hawkwind Studies:
>Well, a few years ago I got really pished at a party and apparently came
>up with a fully relativistic proof that the band Hawkwind exists at all
>points in spacetime. I don't remember the proof,
You need *proof*?!? Surely this is a truth we could all hold to be
self-evident?!? ;)
>everything in the universe is, in a very real sense, Hawkwind.
<Shudder> At least it's not Runrig... Brrr....
>Yes, this is what years of theoretical physics, Philip K Dick novels and
>cheap whisky do to the brain.
Thanks God I've avoided all 3!!!
All right, you're in! ;)
Una
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy
enough people to make it worth the effort.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Judge Institute of Management Studies Tel: +44 (0)1223 766064
Trumpington Street Fax: +44 (0)1223 339701
Cambridge
CB2 1AG http://www.sticklebrock.demon.co.uk/una
United Kingdom http://www.jims.cam.ac.uk/research/ion/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 11:01:28 -0400
From: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu (Carol A. McCoy)
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] The good ones in season 4
Message-ID: <199804231501.LAA01731@yfn.ysu.edu>
D. Rose wrote (about HOK):
> I agree 100%. And of course, I can't resist Avon's rousing from his
>monomania long enough to bail everyone out of the mess. Something about
>Tarrant being shown up, I think!
Deborah! I thought we had cured you of your bad habits. I guess
we'll have to put you back under the hynomachine next Eclecticon. ;-)
Actually, I like that Avon bails Tarrant out, and that they all
end up making mistakes in this ep. It proves they are human.
There's the bit when Avon thinks he has outwitted Servalan by
instructing Zen that the crew has to be put down on an Earth-like
planet before Servalan gets Zen access. Then Servalan points
out that the nearest such planet is Kairos. The expression on
Avon's face is priceless.
Of course, *I* LOVE Harvest. There's the implication that Tarrant
had quite the impressive reputation with Space Command and Jarvik.
And his knowing about the third pursuit ship. The cute way
he puts his arm about Vila. The "kiss." The absolutely yummy
angles when Tarrant is rolling about the grass with Jarvik.
His adorable line that he doesn't know if he can dock the
shuttle because he didn't expect to get that far. It's a
great ep.
Carol Mc
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 11:04:01 -0400
From: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu (Carol A. McCoy)
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] The good ones in season 4
Message-ID: <199804231504.LAA01855@yfn.ysu.edu>
Ian wrote:
>Oh it's always nice when Tarrant gets shown up. Wouldn't it have been nice
>if Vila had shot him at some point!! :-)
Not another one! Ian, I've just booked a vacation on Kairos for
you. I'm sorry that we won't be able to see you at Pages in
June after all. ;-)
Carol Mc
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 08:01:37 -0700
From: Tramila <cdmunoz@earthlink.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Captures and Kinks
Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19980423080137.006dc5a0@earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Russ wrote:
>Number of times captured:
>
>Avon: 17 (2 of which were voluntary)
>Blake: 10
>Cally: 11
>Dayna: 12
>Gan: 5
>Jenna: 7
>Soolin: 1
>Tarrant: 12
>
>Divide these numbers by the number of series in which each character
>appeared and we get, ranked in order of captures per season:
>
>Dayna: 6.00
>Tarrant: 6.00
>Blake: 5.00
>Avon: 4.25
>Cally: 3.67
>Jenna: 3.50
>Gan: 3.33
>Soolin: 1.00
Notice how Vila is not here. Notice how intelligent that makes our lovely
thief. 4.25 times more intelligent than Avon and 6 times more intelligent
than Tarrant and Dayna. Life is good. :)
Tramila
---------
Charter Member and Pres. of V.I.C.E.
Vila's Intimately Corruptable Element
Am I corruptable? Of course I am! and loving it!!!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 11:26:30 -0400
From: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu (Carol A. McCoy)
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] The good ones in season 4
Message-ID: <199804231526.LAA03070@yfn.ysu.edu>
Tramila's response to Vila's shooting Tarrant:
>Now there's a thought.... a happy thought.
>
><ducking and running from the Tarrant Nostra>
People, I didn't want to have to become a serial cyberkiller,
but ... <sniff> ... how much can a Tarrant fan take.
Besides, if Vila shoots Tarrant, he's going to be
awfully lonely alone in bed at night. ;-)
Carol Mc
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 16:47:28 +0100
From: James Mansson <jmansson@atlas.co.uk>
To: "Lysator Blake's 7 Mailing List" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Re The good ones in Season 4
Message-ID: <353F628F.13F7@atlas.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
STEVE.ROGERSON@MCR1.poptel.org.uk wrote:
>
> How can Dangermouse possible describe Animals as
> "unmitigated worthless crap" with all that brilliant character
> acting by David Boyce. Humph!
Well, we've got the Tarrant Nostra to protect everyone's favourite
pilot, so why don't we have the R.S.P.C.A. (Royal Society for the
Prevention of Cruelty to "Animals") to protect everyone's favourite
episode?
James
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 11:55:39 -0400
From: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu (Carol A. McCoy)
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Captures and Kinks
Message-ID: <199804231555.LAA04406@yfn.ysu.edu>
Tramilla wrote:
>Russ wrote:
>
>>Number of times captured:
>>
>>Avon: 17 (2 of which were voluntary)
>>Blake: 10
>>Cally: 11
>>Dayna: 12
>>Gan: 5
>>Jenna: 7
>>Soolin: 1
>>Tarrant: 12
<snippping some of Russ's magnificant post/statistics>
>Notice how Vila is not here. Notice how intelligent that makes our lovely
>thief. 4.25 times more intelligent than Avon and 6 times more intelligent
>than Tarrant and Dayna. Life is good. :)
That would depend on how one defines "good." <g> I'm positively lusting
over 12 visions of Tarrant in captivity. I especially like when
he gets tied up in Volcano and Power. But his worn, ill, resigned
expression in Children of Auron is also noteworthy. However, the
best one is when Blake pulls the gun on him in "Blake." Poor,
disillusioned Tarrant is "arrested" by someone he thought was
one of the good guys. (Russ, thanks for jogging my memory into
remembering these stellar moments.)
One would expect the more reckless members of the crew to end up
captive more often.
But shouldn't Vila be on the list? He was a captive in
Powerplay. And they were all captives in Dawn and Harvest.
He was also captured in Stardrive. And Rescue (when
Dorian is holding a gun on Vila and Dayna). And while my
early season knowledge is limited, we also have Horizon and
Bounty. And I think we have to count Sarcophagus, City,
and Terminal. Space Fall. Eek, the numbers keep growing.
For a person who liked to avoid trouble, darling Vilakins
managed to get more than his share of it.
Carol Mc
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 11:01:22 -0500
From: "Reuben Herfindahl" <reuben@reuben.net>
To: "Harriet Monkhouse" <101637.2064@compuserve.com>, <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Types of fan (was Re Christopher Wheatley)
Message-ID: <004001bd6ed1$1376b990$660114ac@misnt>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Well, having gotten into the game fairly late, I didn't get a chance to get
everything when it first came out (I was 3). I'm fairly happy with what
little I've got, and really don't have an urge to join a fan club (the lists
are better than any fan club I've ever been in). I have all the videos,
picked up a few of the books and made the mistake of getting the 1st four MM
(at least the first issue still has the iron on intact). I still consider
myself a big fan. I measure all TV against B7(guess who canceled cable?),
name servers after characters and even went so far as attempting (and
failing) to write some quality fan-fic.
Reuben
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 16:57:45 +0100
From: "Ian Lay" <ian@pacific-cc.demon.co.uk>
To: <ay648@yfn.ysu.edu>, <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] The good ones in season 4
Message-ID: <01bd6ed0$8e5797c0$407a0439@Ian_Lay.es.lon.sita.int>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Carol wrote:
>>Oh it's always nice when Tarrant gets shown up. Wouldn't it have been
nice
>>if Vila had shot him at some point!! :-)
>
>Not another one! Ian, I've just booked a vacation on Kairos for
>you. I'm sorry that we won't be able to see you at Pages in
>June after all. ;-)
:-)
Ah well I was only kidding. Though Tarrant wasn't my favourite character
(those are Vila, Avon and all the computers i.e. ORAC, Slave and Zen) I did
like him. It's just he picked on poor Vila too much. I preferred him more
in the 4th series than the 3rd. He was far too arrogant in the 3rd series.
Take care,
Ian "50% increases. Are you getting that shafted feeling?" Lay
////
:-)
\\\\
Watford Internet Football Club
Ian@pacific-cc.demon.co.uk or
wifc@wfc.net
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 17:13:01 +0100
From: "Ian Lay" <ian@pacific-cc.demon.co.uk>
To: <jmansson@atlas.co.uk>,
"Lysator Blake's 7 Mailing List" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re The good ones in Season 4
Message-ID: <01bd6ed2$b00ef640$407a0439@Ian_Lay.es.lon.sita.int>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
James wrote:
>
>Well, we've got the Tarrant Nostra to protect everyone's favourite
>pilot, so why don't we have the R.S.P.C.A. (Royal Society for the
>Prevention of Cruelty to "Animals") to protect everyone's favourite
>episode?
Just to add my two-penneth to the discussion. Animals is quite frankly the
worst episode of the entire series. IMHO of course. It is the only one I
avoid when watching the 4th series. the only good bits are at the beginning
with Tarrant and Slave when they are getting attacked.... and Vila in the
"tank". All the stuff in the middle usually gets the fast forward
treatment.
Ian "50% increases. Are you getting that shafted feeling?" Lay
////
:-)
\\\\
Watford Internet Football Club
Ian@pacific-cc.demon.co.uk or
wifc@wfc.net
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 11:35:08 -0500
From: "Reuben Herfindahl" <reuben@reuben.net>
To: "Lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] What makes a fan? (new question)
Message-ID: <00aa01bd6ed5$c740e410$660114ac@misnt>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I seem to recall the question being asked earlier, but my memory is hazy.
What other shows, or anything actually do people here consider themselves
fans of?
I'll disclaimer this quickly by saying my list changes frequently an
unpredictably.
My list (in vague order):
Dr. Who
Blake's 7
Star Trek (the original)
MST3K
Star Trek:TNG
Macintosh and Power PC - I know it doesn't really fit here, but it's a huge
passion of mine.
Reuben
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 10:18:02 -0700
From: Tramila <cdmunoz@earthlink.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] The good ones in season 4
Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19980423101802.00cb5b08@earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Tramila's response to Vila's shooting Tarrant:
>>Now there's a thought.... a happy thought.
>><ducking and running from the Tarrant Nostra>
Carol Mc wrote:
>People, I didn't want to have to become a serial cyberkiller,
>but ... <sniff> ... how much can a Tarrant fan take.
:) he he oops sorry. But Tarrant was an irritant from the moment he said,
"My ship!" grrrrr
I may be a Vila fan now but I started out an Avon fan and that Tarrant
comment placed by into the category of low life in my book. It was Avon's
ship. It was always Avon's ship from the moment that he stepped on board.
>Besides, if Vila shoots Tarrant, he's going to be awfully lonely alone in
bed at night. ;-)
ROTFLMAO!
Not really. He'll be with Avon. Remember. He's always safe with Avon.
LOL Except during Orbit. hummmmmm. And speaking of A/V...perhaps I should
dig out a few of my zlines.... naaaaw, not enough time. Have company
coming. Must clean house. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
Tramila
---------
Charter Member and Pres. of V.I.C.E.
Vila's Intimately Corruptable Element
Am I corruptable? Of course I am! and loving it!!!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 09:11:20 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] fans and memorabilia
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.42-0423081120-965Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
It's fascinating to decide what people actually consider to be memorabilia.
Some things are clear cut. If you have an original teleport bracelet or
costume, then that just has to be memorabilia.
How about magazines? If you bought them when they came out, they probably don't
count. However, if you've hung onto them for 20 years or bought them
second-hand, then they probably qualify.
Are fanzines memorabilia?
What about photographs? Publicity shots pretty well have to qualify, but what
about more informal shots of the cast? I know people who collect those.
Fan art? I've got framed artwork by Suzan Lovatt and Val Westall.
Theatre flyers?
Novels?
Annuals? (I guess they are memorabilia, but they are still naff)
My gut feeling is that to qualify as memorabilia, things have to be either
original to the series or at least out of print. Memorabilia has to have been
specifically collected as opposed to just acquired out of general interest.
Judith
PS. If anyone has any unwanted theatre flyers or programmes for anything Gareth
Thomas has been in, I collect those. I'm also interested in publicity photos,
although I think I have most of the easy to get ones.
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 18:36:28 +0100
From: "Heather Smith" <Heather.Smith@btinternet.com>
To: "Lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Research
Message-ID: <007c01bd6ede$598c3d80$163e63c3@smith99>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>Wow! What a *terrific* response! You're all being extremely kind, and >I
think you'll enjoy it.
>
>Other people who haven't offered to take part - go on! You know you
>want to! ;)
Okay, Okay, consider me offered.
Heather.
'There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish'
-The fourth Doctor
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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GIT/L/P/O d--? s-():(+) a--- C++(+++)>$ US@ P L E--- W++>+++
N++ !o K w+(---) O@ M- V PS+>$ PE Y+>++ PGP-- t-- 5+ X-(+) R(-)* tv
b++++ DI+ D++ G++>+++ e->+++++ h++ r? x-
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 13:02:41 -0500
From: "Reuben Herfindahl" <reuben@reuben.net>
To: "Lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Fans and Memorabilia
Message-ID: <00cf01bd6ee2$027f18b0$660114ac@misnt>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
-----Original Message-----
From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com>
To: INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Date: Thursday, April 23, 1998 7:25 AM
Subject: [B7L] Re: Fans and Memorabilia
And what is the
>case against Eeyore = Avon?
Well, it is insinuating that he's an ass.
Reuben
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 18:53:02 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] fandom
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.42-0423175302-480Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
On Thu 23 Apr, Alison Page wrote:
> Perhaps there should be a category of 'super-fan' for people like Jackie
> and Judth and others for whom B7 is (as she says) a major hobby, and 'fan'
> for others for whom it is one of their interests (like me). I think most
> people would say I am a 'fan' (I mean people outside of B7 would) but I
> wouldn't dream of buying memorabilia, and my reading is much more
> restricted than Jackie's I'm sure.
Ah, no, please! I'd hate to be in a different category from anyone else who
loves the series. 'super-fan' sounds pretentious.
A more apropriate title for people who do things like fanzine publishing and
con-running would be 'congenital idiot'.
Here's my personal definition of 'fan' (which I reserve the right to change
every week) - a fan is someone who tries to convert their frineds to the series.
They love it so much that they want to share it.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/
--------------------------------
End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #120
**************************************