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blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 14
Today's Topics:
Re: [B7L] Re Spam
[B7L] (no subject)
[B7L] Attack of the Claypit People
Re: [B7L] Attack of the Claypit People
Re: [B7L] The City at the Edge of the World
[B7L] Independent newspaper (UK)
[B7L] Bears (was upcoming excitement)
[B7L] beards and the silly season
[B7L] Re: SC: Attack of the Claypit People
[B7L] Tyce Sarkoff
Re: [B7L] :Upcoming excitement
Re: [B7L] The Way Back 4/4
Re: [B7L] The Way Back 4/4
[B7L] The Way Back -- Charisma
Re: [B7L] beards and the silly season
Re: [B7L] The City at the Edge of the World
Re: [B7L] The Way Back 4/4
[B7L] Re: Beards
Re: [B7L] Tyce Sarkoff
Re: [B7L] Re: Beards
------------------------------
Date: 15 Jan 1998 08:58:50 +0100
From: Calle Dybedahl <qdtcall@esavionics.se>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re Spam
Message-ID: <isk9c22mo5.fsf@godzilla.kiere.ericsson.se>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
STEVE.ROGERSON@MCR1.poptel.org.uk writes:
> Can we trace how we have recently become a target and stop it at
> source?
Short version: No.
Longer version: Not by anything less then the removal of all mentions
of the list address from all web pages now in existence or created in
the future.
It is very likely that now that it's started, it'll only get worse.
--
Calle Dybedahl, UNIX Sysadmin
qdtcall@esavionics.se http://www.lysator.liu.se/~calle/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 17:16:30 +0800
From: Rachel Turner <eturner@cc.curtin.edu.au>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] (no subject)
Message-id: <34BDD3ED.1E8D9B0@alpha1.curtin.edu.au>
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unsubscibe
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:09:17 +0000
From: Russ Massey <russ@wriding.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Attack of the Claypit People
Message-ID: <tfa3SAA9Idv0EwEY@wriding.demon.co.uk>
Yet another article by Neil that deals with the writing of fanfic, and written
with a leavening dash of humour...
The usual restrictions on duplication apply - not for profit, and no removing
the name of the author from the work.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ATTACK OF THE CLAYPIT PEOPLE
by Neil Faulkner (from Altazine #1)
It strikes me as a bit odd that if there's one charge to level against fan writers
in general, it's a failure of imagination. Thinking about it, it shouldn't really be
terribly odd at all, but it still feels a bit strange. B7 is science fiction, right?
The literature of the imagination, right? What's more, it's SF of the rather racy
variety, with aliens and big spaceships and deadly weapons and a galactic
empire and everything. Exotic worlds don't so much beckon as threaten to
splatt down on your head. But not in fanfic. At least not half so often as they
ought to.
The three essential ingredients of a story might be boiled down to the three
P's of writing - People, Places and Plots. You need people to carry out the
plot, and plots have got to happen in some place or other. Space opera
offers all kinds of exciting possibilities for each of these three vital elements.
Fanfic has a bad habit of overlooking them.
Let's start with people, or characters. Fan writers are heavily into characters,
or so they claim. More specifically, they're into a limited set of characters,
namely the regulars, and often only one or two of them. As we all know, fan
writers can radically differ in their interpretation of a particular favourite, but
that's all part of the game. At least the character in question is being built on,
added to ,explained, accounted for. It's when we move beyond the regular
cast and into the realm of original characters that we hit problems. Fan
writers show either a lack of interest in them (beyond their use as plot
devices) or an inability to develop these new creations to any meaningful
degree. (Of course, some fan writers can and do make a good job of
presenting interesting and engaging original characters. But I'm not talking
about *them*.)
Here are some of the basic features of a typical original character in a fan
story:
1) He or she has no name. Instead he or she (usually he) is a Rebel,
a Section Leader, a Space Captain or a Scientist.
2) If s/he does have a name, it's a very silly one. Female characters
are more likely to get a slightly sensible, just as they are more likely to get one
in the first place.
3) S/he has no ethnic background, nor indeed any kind of
background at all. The lucky ones get tagged with an age.
4) S/he walks around stark naked, and either suffers from advanced
alopecia or subscribes to a sixties bluebeat revival. I draw this conclusion
from the general lack of description of clothing or hair. Female characters
(again) are less likely to be skinheads, but are still heavily into streaking.
5) Male characters have bland and instantly forgettable faces that
obviously defy all attempts at description. Female characters are all waiting
for their chance to get on *Baywatch* (once they get their swimsuits - see #4
above).
6) S/he has no personalising touches like mannerisms, figures of
speech, personality quirks. If they have a motivation it's usually Greed, or
Power (if they work for the Federation) or helping Avon (if they don't). They
are very good at saying "Yes, ma'am", "No, Ma'am" and "Good grief, it's
bigger on the inside than it is on the..." - hang on, wrong series.
Okay, you get the picture. There must be millions of interesting people out
there, but Blake and Avon never seem to meet them. Time after time, ancillary
characters are only there to play out their allotted roles in the plot. I would
like to suggest that a little bit more could be done with them before they die
horribly. In fact, I hereby insist that every fan story should contain at least
one fat old Korean woman called Astrid Cometkiller with a beehive hairdo
and a penchant for lycra who collects Victorian sauce bottles and never takes
off her fluorescent poncho and bowler hat. That'll do for a start.
Places don't always fare much better:
'On a particular day, two humankind met on a neutral planet'
Ros Williams, *If You Would Have Power* pt 1, Horizon
#15
And that's it! Okay, so the 'two humankind' are Servalan and Carnell, but
what about the neutral planet? Whereabouts on it are they? On a city street?
In a sumptuous mansion (most likely in a RW story)? Underneath the
spreading chestnut tree? Knee deep in a septic tank? When I read a story, I
like to *know* these things. As with characters, the typical fanfic planet has a
number of characteristic features:
1) It has a silly name, sometimes with a Beta or Delta attached to it
(Alpha, Gamma and Epsilon are lucky to get a look in).
2) If there are enough people living on it to sustain some kind of
economy, everything on the planet is devoted to one particular industry.
Leading favourites are mining, building hordes of pursuit ships, or
PLEASURE.
3) If the Federation is down there, the whole planet looks like a dual
carriageway construction project. The few survivors are all rebels, and live in
caves.
4) If the Federation aren't down there, all the people wear chainmail
and carry swords and backwards phrase their sentences.
5) In the absence of any people, there are Aliens, readily
distinguishable by their long flowing robes and knowing smiles.
6) Otherwise, there is just one crabby old scientist who knew Avon
ten years ago and now wants to kill him. He fails and dies horribly.
7) Gravity, climate, topography and vegetation are all unremarkable.
Nothing merits attention until everyone gawps at the double sunset.
8) All building interiors are featureless and characterless, with the
notable exception of Servalan's Office.
Moving on to plots, things finally start to pick up a bit. The average fan writer
might care squit all about interesting people or interesting places, but
interesting plots are another matter. Nevertheless, some things happen with
monotonous regularity:
1) Liberator is forced to run away leaving two of the crew stranded
on a typical Fanfic Planet.
2) Two of the crew end up stuck deep underground and can't
contact the ship even though it's still in orbit. (It's usually just two of the
crew. This is so one can suffer a life threatening injury and the other has to
overcome some personal grudge to save her/im) Meanwhile, back on the
ship, everyone dithers around and argues over what to do.
3) Aliens with a technology far too advanced for our feeble minds to
contemplate play jolly little mind games with the crew.
4) Blake tries to do some rebelling and Avon tells him he's being
very silly.
5) Tarrant or Jenna get the chance to do some Expert Piloting,
Dayna is landed with a chance for some flashy Martial Arts, Some Federation
troopers indulge in a spot of Brutal Thuggery, and Servalan purrs and
simpers and thanks everyone for doing exactly what she'd planned they
would do three months in advance.
6) Our heroes penetrate Federation security that couldn't guard a
fresh fish stall, let alone a top secret installation.
Because fan writers are primarily interested in exploring the thrilling
interpersonal dynamics of their favourite characters, it is not really so odd
that everything beyond the favourite characters should so frequently turn out
so colourless. The question is, does this matter? Isn't there a case for
distinguishing between the B7 fan who simply wants to write about his/er
favourite series, and those fans who have a joint interest in writing *in itself*
as well as B7?
I suggest that there isn't. Fan writers may have their particular spheres of
interest, but they are still trying to write fiction. Just as fan artists do their best
and try to come up with something a bit better than stick figures, so the
writers take their work seriously and try to turn out good stories. That they
don't always succeed just goes to show that writing isn't as easy as it's
sometimes made out to be. There's a bit more to it than sticking one word
after another.
I'm not arguing for a body of fanfic that aspires to some kind of 'literary'
merit. I just think that fan fiction could try harder to do what any kind of
popular fiction does - to supply its readers with stories that are well written,
have interesting characters, appealing settings and plots that pack a few
surprises. Am I the only one who wants this from a B7 story? I hope not.
--
transcribed by
Russ Massey
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 06:40:29 EST
From: E van Looy <EvanLooy@aol.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Attack of the Claypit People
Message-ID: <e82a787d.34bdf5af@aol.com>
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Neil wrote:
<<It's when we move beyond the regular
cast and into the realm of original characters that we hit problems. Fan
writers show either a lack of interest in them (beyond their use as plot
devices) or an inability to develop these new creations to any meaningful
degree. (Of course, some fan writers can and do make a good job of
presenting interesting and engaging original characters. But I'm not talking
about *them*.)>>
Ah, but that is the problem, isn't it? If it were easy to write interesting
fictional characters, why, then everyone would be doing it. They are certainly
trying, I'll grant you that but few series, books or films written and
produced by even big names are able to make up characters and plots compelling
enough to become classics, the way B7 certainly has.
<<I just think that fan fiction could try harder to do what any kind of
popular fiction does - to supply its readers with stories that are well
written,
have interesting characters, appealing settings and plots that pack a few
surprises.>>
I'm glad you're so happy with popular fiction's offerings, but unfortunately I
am not. I can think of few characters in popular fiction that have made a
lasting impact on me. Even something so insanely great as, say, The
Hitchhiker's Guide to the Universe, has rather poorly developed characters.
Arthur what's-his-face and that guy from Betelgeuse hardly resonate as
personalities even among die-hard fans.
Frankly, for that reason I prefer my fanfic to stick to the tried characters.
Every now and then you come across a writer who has thought up an original
character, who just happens to be incredibly interesting and fascinating and
full of depths begging to be explored. I mostly skip those explorations and
hope the story will pick up later. Same with all those professional Star Trek
novels, where we first get three chapters about Rohn Rohan who is a five-
legged anthropodian lab assistant from a planet with inverse gravitation...it
is rare that all those original characters are even half as spell-binding as
the writer fondly imagines them to be.
Elise
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 07:07:59 EST
From: Bizarro7 <Bizarro7@aol.com>
To: pussnboots@geocities.com, blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] The City at the Edge of the World
Message-ID: <722536f.34bdfc21@aol.com>
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In a message dated 98-01-14 13:15:47 EST, pussnboots@geocities.com writes:
<< Tyce had a strength of will equal to that of Avalon or Blake. She had
the loyalty to stand by her president. She had the fortitude not to give
up, no matter how long her vigil might last. She had the guts to pull a
gun, tho she was no trained terrorist. She just needed a bit of training
from Cally. Then look out, baddies! >>
I've also been a great fan of Tyce and felt she'd have been an interesting
addition to the crew. For one thing, I think she would have made a staunch
defender of Blake against Avon's constant haranguing attacks on the Flight
Deck. We started to do this in the sequal to Last Stand At the Edge of the
World (Shadow at the Edge), and intend to carry forward with it.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:06:40 +0000 (GMT)
From: Iain Coleman <ijc@mail.nerc-bas.ac.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Independent newspaper (UK)
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980115125826.5683A-100000@bsauasc>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Today's copy of the "Independent" has a feature on B7 (prompted by the
new radio play). It's quite a nice feature, contrasting the optimism of
Star Trek with the bleakness of Blake's 7, discussing fandom and the
internet, mentioning the pitiful budget (of course) and generally being
quite positive and affectionate. I didn't notice the words "sad", "anorak"
or "trainspotter" at all, which was nice.
Iain
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:00:44 -0500
From: Harriet Monkhouse <H_F_Monkhouse@compuserve.com>
To: "Blake's 7 (Lysator)" <BLAKES7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Bears (was upcoming excitement)
Message-ID: <199801150901_MC2-2F65-6EE1@compuserve.com>
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Iain complained:
>Come on, now, Julia posted this a couple of
>days ago. Aren't any of the women out there
>going to say how much they like bearded guys?
Oh yes, sorry. I'll add my vote to Carolyn's (and Judith's I expect). It
partly depends on the man and the beard, but on the whole I'm pro-beards,
except when they've just been trimmed and scratch a bit.
I am furious with my MP for shaving his beard off - I TOLD him not to last
year when there was a rumour that New Labour wanted all its men
clean-shaven. At the time, he agreed, but what a man will do for a junior
minister's post. He looked so much better with his chin covered.
Before you go to News of the World, I never sampled Keith's beard at close
quarters. It was my OTHER MP who used to embrace me in the street, and he
didn't have one.
Harriet
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 01:24:30 +1100
From: Fran Myers <algemy@ozemail.com.au>
To: B7 <blake7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] beards and the silly season
Message-ID: <34BE1C1E.4E03@ozemail.com.au>
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iain sez: Aren't any of the
women out there going to say how much they like bearded guys?
YYYYEEEESSSSS!!!!! I think ANY man looks better with a beard. Even
drop dead guys like Sean Connery. Certainly Blake was improved in his
one bearded appearance.
Beards are totally masculine. Nice to rub up against - beats bristles
any day. Particularly nice on bald men - double dose of masculinity.
Strangely, though, I don't like beards without moustaches or moustaches
without beards.
I also like hairy chests. (On men, that is). I think I see male body
hair as a sign of maturity. The hairless over-muscled Chippendales do
nothing for me.
One good thing about the silly season on tv - I get the chance to watch
all my B7 tapes again. Drooool. Just watched the first few with
Tarrant in them, and once again hated the character. And I STILL can't
see any homosexual overtones between B and A.
Fran M
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:15:55 -0500
From: Susan Beth <sbs@world.std.com>
To: space-city@world.std.com, blake7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: SC: Attack of the Claypit People
Message-Id: <3.0.4.32.19980115101555.006c56c8@world.std.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>ATTACK OF THE CLAYPIT PEOPLE
>
>by Neil Faulkner (from Altazine #1)
Now, I find myself much more in sympathy with *this* essay -- meaning, I
guess, that Neil and I have roughly similar standards for fiction and have
both read enough stories that trespass upon them.
That said, I'm going to start out by disagreeing with his first point:
> B7 is science fiction, right?
Er. Sorta. The thing is, not *all* SF is primarily concerned with imagined
settings and scientific wonders and all that. A lot of time, SF is about
exploring the human nature, and all the rest is just a setting to bring out
whatever bit you want to work on. And I'd say that was particularly true
for B7:
>What's more, it's SF of the rather racy
>variety, with aliens
Aliens? You mean like the Auronar who can only be told from human by the
score cards? Outside of Cally and Co., how often do we get a glimpse of an
alien with a personality or a different way of looking at the world?
Mostly they are simply stock Menaces, like the Guardians in Spacefall or
the Andromedans or the blue people in Ultraworld. Actually the only
exception I can think of right now is Zil. Going by the series, the B7
universe is pretty much devoid of interesting aliens -- so why should
fanfic be different from the source?
> and big spaceships and deadly weapons and a galactic
>empire and everything.
This they got. But so does most fanfic I've read -- the presence of the
Lib and fed spaceships, and energy weapons, and the evil Federation are
pretty much givens. Even when they aren't front and center, they are
presumed to exist, as in, if Blake suggests a dangerous foray planetside,
even if the author hadn't already explicitly referred to their weapons
existing *we* know they do and will be donned.
>Exotic worlds don't so much beckon as threaten to
>splatt down on your head.
Oh, come on, Neil! The "exotic worlds" of the series consisted of little
more than A) abandoned quarries B) temperate zone forest settings C)
ordinary looking sea coasts. I don't think you can honestly claim fanfic
shows less imagination than the series on this score.
That out of the way....
>Fan
>writers show either a lack of interest in them (beyond their use as plot
>devices) or an inability to develop these new creations to any meaningful
>degree.
Both, I'd say, but sometimes that is proper: not just the writer, but the
reader will quite properly lack interest in them. Some characters are
cardboard because they really aren't characters but part of the setting or
maybe a prop. If Fed. Trooper Jones is in your story simply to stand
unseen outside the cell door until three seconds before Cally blasts him
while rescuing Blake -- well, why waste precious space in your story (and
your reader's time) in giving him a name/personality/appearance/etc?
OTOH, I agree that all too often the original characters who *do* have
genuine roles to play in your story are also sadly unmemorable.
> 1) He or she has no name. Instead he or she (usually he) is a Rebel,
>a Section Leader, a Space Captain or a Scientist.
(Gee, doesn't that fit an awful lot of the series guest stars?)
> 2) If s/he does have a name, it's a very silly one. Female characters
>are more likely to get a slightly sensible, just as they are more likely
to get one
>in the first place.
Er. I don't know how you are judging "silly names." Is Og silly? Atalan?
Tyce? Moloch? The Tharn?
> 3) S/he has no ethnic background, nor indeed any kind of
>background at all. The lucky ones get tagged with an age.
This is as opposed to the rich and varied backgrounds, ethnic and
otherwise, we were given for the characters in the series, right? Right.
> 4) S/he walks around stark naked, and either suffers from advanced
>alopecia or subscribes to a sixties bluebeat revival. I draw this conclusion
>from the general lack of description of clothing or hair. Female characters
>(again) are less likely to be skinheads, but are still heavily into
streaking.
>
> 5) Male characters have bland and instantly forgettable faces that
>obviously defy all attempts at description. Female characters are all waiting
>for their chance to get on *Baywatch* (once they get their swimsuits - see #4
>above).
Yes, the series didn't fail *this* way....but given that the episodes are
visual they hardly can. I mean, most actors come complete with faces, eye
and hair color, etc. and I'll bet the BBC mandated clothes.....
I could go through your points about the planets and give examples where
your failings were equally true of the series itself....but I admit this is
quibbling. The hokey settings were forced on B7 for budgetary reasons that
have no impact at all on fanfic -- there really isn't any reason that
fanfic can't take advantage of the trillion dollar setting-generator in
every reader's head by setting *this* story in a climate controlled bubble
floating 100 miles deep in the liquid nitrogen seas of Maltrexa, where
giant strands of semi-sentient colony beings drift by outside the
plastiglass.....
As to plots, yes, an awful lost of fanfic stories figure out ways to
isolate one or two of the characters from the rest. This is usually a sign
that A) the author wants to explore the character interactions of just
those two or B) the author finds it difficult to figure out meaty roles for
the whole crew. (Incidentally, the professional series writers often had
that problem, too, which is why Jenna and Cally spent so much time behind
the teleport controls.)
I would argue that A is a valid type of story. That you see so many of
them simply means there are an awful lot of fanfic writers who are
interested in one-on-one interactions. A shame if you want to read about a
gang interacting as they pull off some caper, er, a rebel raid on a Fed
outpost...but that disappointment is due to your tastes and not the writers
failings, imho.
> 3) Aliens with a technology far too advanced for our feeble minds to
>contemplate play jolly little mind games with the crew.
Silly! That's *Star Trek*.
>I'm not arguing for a body of fanfic that aspires to some kind of 'literary'
>merit. I just think that fan fiction could try harder to do what any kind of
>popular fiction does - to supply its readers with stories that are well
written,
>have interesting characters, appealing settings and plots that pack a few
>surprises. Am I the only one who wants this from a B7 story? I hope not.
Well, I will join you in this call for more "color" *except* if adding it
would displace the special benefits of fanfic. Let's face it, first and
foremost the reason for reading and writing fanfic is to get to spend more
time with *these particular characters.*
If I simply want to read "interesting characters, appealing settings and
plots that pack a few surprises" I can pick up, cheap and convenient at any
bookstore, virtually any book off the
SF/Fantasy/mystery/western/action/suspense/horror/whatever genre shelves
and find them all. The reason I pay $20 and wait a month or more to get a
fanzine is because I want to read about *Blake and Avon and Cally and the
rest.* If you shove them offscreen too long while you develop and showcase
your interesting original character and setting, I for one will feel cheated.
Susan Beth
(sbs@world.std.com)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:24:00 -0800
From: "PATTI McCLELLAN" <patti.mcclellan@kyl.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Tyce Sarkoff
Message-ID: <Megw.4761917@powell.fabrik.com>
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Once again marching to a different drummer, I need to say that I
found Tyce shrill and unappealing. I will admit it may be that I was
prejudiced against her from the start because the writers deliberately
suggested she was Sarkoff's lover long before admitting she was his
daughter, which really ticked me off, because it seemed a gratuitous
trick. My other problems with Tyce have to do with a personal dislike
for the sort of aggressive, self-righteous hectoring behavior she used
in attempting to get her father to be someone he wasn't any longer,
ahd perhaps never was.
And on reflection, I would say that I would probably have liked
her if she had been ten or fifteen years older. It's hard to admire
shallow people, and she struck me as shallow, regardless of her noble
intentions and her intelligence.
This is not to say she wouldn't be a wonderful addition to the
crew. Particularly if Avon shared my view of her!
Patti
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 20:05:15 -0800
From: Pat Patera <pussnboots@geocities.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] :Upcoming excitement
Message-ID: <34BC397B.7873@geocities.com>
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Iain Coleman wrote:
>
> > Don`t hold your breath! She is most definately not the kind of woman I
> > would associate with Avon.
> Au contraire, they make an excellent couple. OK, she's not the most
> glamourous woman in the Federation, but she's quite nice looking and has
> intelligence, wit and steely determination to match Avon's. I can
> certainly see why someone like Avon would go for Anna.
>
Yes, with him intelligence, he would look for brains before beauty.
Avon's such a techy geek he may not notice beauty at all; there's so
much else on his mind. Also, he and Anna share the same first priority:
the success of themselves, rather than of others.
Pat P
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 20:32:26 -0800
From: Pat Patera <pussnboots@geocities.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] The Way Back 4/4
Message-ID: <34BC3FDA.15BF@geocities.com>
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Iain Coleman wrote:
> Odd, isn't it? I guess it's because Avon is the cool, sardonic anti-hero,
> whereas a lot of people see Blake as "too nice" or "too wimpy". But if you
> look at his actions, rather than his manner, he's hard, ruthless and very
> dangerous.
I believe there is a story or fanzine titled, "Mad, Bad and Dangerous to
Know."
I always found that *the* perfect description of The Triad fen love to
write:
Avon: Mad (angry? insane? take your pick!)
Vila: Bad (need I say more?)
ah, but it's Blake who is dangerous to know.
odd that Vila stuck close to him, when to Avon he admitted, "I feel safe
around you." For they shared the same sense of self preservation.
Pat P
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 20:15:59 -0800
From: Pat Patera <pussnboots@geocities.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] The Way Back 4/4
Message-ID: <34BC3BFF.15C3@geocities.com>
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NWOutsider wrote:
re:
> > You raise some interesting questions. Blake just didn't seem charismatic
> > enough to have such a large following if his only gripe with the Federation
> > was personal.
>
> 8-) I've always found this really funny: within the series
> Blake is supposed to be very charismatic but within fandom it's
> Avon who has the followers.
Charisma is a strange thing. It's also called "star quality." And no,
alas, Blake does not have it. I once had a boss - prez of a PR firm -
who had charisma (she was also manic-depressive). But when she was manic
- charismatic, I swear, we'd want to do *anything* for her. Charisma is
like that. It makes you "want to."
I once saw a truly dumb "sci-fi" movie about a bear that got atomic
radiation and grew huge and grody looking. A large man, who looked
remarkably like Gareth Thomas (but wasn't him) was trying to lead a
group of people to safety thru the dark northwest forests while the
"monster bear" was chasing them. But this man just exuded charisma, and
I remember thinking "That's what Blake should have "felt" like."
Pat P
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:54:00 -0800
From: "PATTI McCLELLAN" <patti.mcclellan@kyl.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] The Way Back -- Charisma
Message-ID: <Megw.4766654@powell.fabrik.com>
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Back before the Great Flood, when I was a Trekker, I went to
a con to see Leonard Nimoy. I wasn't a big Shatner fan because I
just had never been impressed with his acting and he wasn't my
"type." I saw Bill on stage, however, and the man had presence.
No matter what anyone else was doing, your eye was drawn to him,
for no particular reason. It was astounding to me, because it
didn't come across on television or in person one-to-one (the
latter probably because he'd just as soon send fans to Cygnus
Alpha). Anyway, the point is, I agree that charisma is a chancy
thing. You can't learn it, and you can't buy it. Hence the
astonishingly ineffective mass of infomercials. Some of those
sales people might be able to get eskimos to buy ice, in person.
To me, one of the most tragic things about Blake is that he
might actually have had that charisma, that ability to make other
people "want to" do things before the Federation messed with his
mind. I never realized that until I started writing Blake from
the inside, but it certainly changed the way I looked at him.
Patti
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 19:41:34 +0000
From: Julia Jones <Julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] beards and the silly season
Message-ID: <5LeuDHAuZmv0EwXJ@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <34BE1C1E.4E03@ozemail.com.au>, Fran Myers
<algemy@ozemail.com.au> writes
>iain sez: Aren't any of the
>women out there going to say how much they like bearded guys?
>
>YYYYEEEESSSSS!!!!! I think ANY man looks better with a beard. Even
>drop dead guys like Sean Connery. Certainly Blake was improved in his
>one bearded appearance.
Actually, having just seen Gareth in the panto, "Blake" looks pretty
good with a white beard.
<snip>
> And I STILL can't
>see any homosexual overtones between B and A.
I had to have it pointed out to me on a frame-by-frame basis, but I did
eventually give in - there are bits that can definitely be interpreted
that way. As interest, if not your actual physical relationship.
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 19:36:34 +0000
From: Julia Jones <Julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] The City at the Edge of the World
Message-ID: <0LFtzBACVmv0EwWr@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <722536f.34bdfc21@aol.com>, Bizarro7 <Bizarro7@aol.com>
writes
<snip>
>
>I've also been a great fan of Tyce and felt she'd have been an interesting
>addition to the crew. For one thing, I think she would have made a staunch
>defender of Blake against Avon's constant haranguing attacks on the Flight
>Deck. We started to do this in the sequal to Last Stand At the Edge of the
>World (Shadow at the Edge), and intend to carry forward with it.
>
What? New novel? New novel?
<grovel>
when?
</grovel>
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 20:23:19 -0600
From: Lisa Williams <lcw@dallas.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] The Way Back 4/4
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980115201834.00bd7c58@dallas.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Pat Patera wrote:
>Charisma is a strange thing. It's also called "star quality." And no,
>alas, Blake does not have it.
Interesting. I always regarded Blake as having *lots* of charisma, and had
no trouble at all understanding why people would follow him, even against
their better judgement. I could feel it myself.
--
- Lisa
<lcw@dallas.net>
<lwilliams@mcopn1.dseg.ti.com>
Lisa's Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 21:38:28 EST
From: penny_kjelgaard@juno.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: Beards
Message-ID: <19980115.183111.13359.1.Penny_Kjelgaard@juno.com>
Yes, I confess. I love beards. I can do without hairy chests, and
balding heads are even alright, but beards seem to snap me into the "look
twice" mode.
I didn't think Paul looked all that great, but then, he'd been tortured
for days. Gareth, on the other hand...that make-up job they did on him
in "Blake" would send me into the woods AFTER him.
Peace,
Penny
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 18:37:34 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Tyce Sarkoff
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.09-0115173734-0b0Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1
On Thu 15 Jan, PATTI McCLELLAN wrote:
> Once again marching to a different drummer, I need to say that I
> found Tyce shrill and unappealing. I will admit it may be that I was
> prejudiced against her from the start because the writers deliberately
> suggested she was Sarkoff's lover long before admitting she was his
> daughter, which really ticked me off, because it seemed a gratuitous
> trick.
Huh? I never saw that. I just assumed she was his bodyguard and that she
knew him well. I never saw a sexual relationship implied.
My other problems with Tyce have to do with a personal dislike
> for the sort of aggressive, self-righteous hectoring behavior she used
> in attempting to get her father to be someone he wasn't any longer,
> ahd perhaps never was.
I think she knew the man he had been, saw what despair had done to him, and
wanted her father back again. There is no easy way to make someone turn
from escapism to reality.
I liked her. I saw her as brave and positive.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:00:09 +0000 (GMT)
From: Iain Coleman <ijc@mail.nerc-bas.ac.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Beards
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980116095641.13649A-100000@bsauasc>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Thanks, my poor ego feels much better now.
:-#
(that's my pitiful attempt at a bearded smiley)
(hmm, that sounds a bit rude)
Iain
--------------------------------
End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #14
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