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blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 163
Today's Topics:
Re: [B7L] Blake's dark side
Re: [B7L] Fourth Season - why??
Re: [B7L] Fourth Season
Re: [B7L] Criminals
Re: [B7L] Criminals
Re: [B7L] Fourth Season - why??
[B7L] B7 Videos in USA
Re: [B7L] Avon
Re: [B7L] Fourth Season
Re: [B7L] Fourth Season - why??
Re: [B7L] Fourth Season - why??
Re: [B7L] Criminals
Re: [B7L] Fourth Season
Re: [B7L] Criminals
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 10:00:55 +0100 (BST)
From: Rob Clother <rob@amsta.leeds.ac.uk>
To: B7 mailing list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Blake's dark side
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.980611095604.7603B-100000@mobius>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> > Also, referring back to Keirsey's "Portrait of Temperments", Idealists
> > tend to be able to turn very quickly from friend to foe, and once a foe,
> > watch out. Of course, I have spent my entire life toning down my mean
> > streak, but when it snaps, boy, does it. I can be as cold, removed and
> > nasty as the situation needs.
>
> I knew there was a reason I'm cautious about Idealists, besides their
> tendancy not to be cautious enough.
Idealists can be hopeless dreamers as well -- in the most extreme cases,
they can get drawn into fantasy worlds of their own, and then they're
capable of anything.
Idealism is dangerous unless it's tempered by a large dose of healthy
cynicism.
-- Rob
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 10:20:55 +0100 (BST)
From: Rob Clother <rob@amsta.leeds.ac.uk>
To: B7 mailing list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fourth Season - why??
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.980611100335.7603C-100000@mobius>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Christine Lacey on Assassin:
> Admittedly it had its crappy aspects, but hell, if you can't cope with some
> bad acting, silly costumes and ridiculous monsters, why watch B7?
Certainly not for the special effects, for a start!
That's it, though. My flatmate watches B7 and says, "Oh, this could have
been a brilliant programme if the special effects were any good." I don't
even bother to argue with this comment -- I just think to myself, "What a
wally" -- but in fact, there is something to be said for his point of
view. We've all got certain tastes (some of them crappier than others,
but that's beside the point) and when you're watching something like B7
some of our tastes mitigate against others. In other words, we filter
out the rubbish parts to get to what we really like about what we're
watching.
My crappy acting filter isn't up to much -- particularly as it's the
acting in the first few episodes that sets B7 apart from any other sci-fi
drama I've ever seen. GT's delivery of Blake's speech to the prisoners on
Cygnus Alpha is some of the best acting I've seen anywhere. I can't
imagine anyone else carrying it off anywhere near as well.
-- Rob
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 00:15:39 +1000 (EST)
From: werry@netspace.net.au (John Werry)
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fourth Season
Message-Id: <199806111415.AAA07665@hurricane.netspace.net.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Pat Patera <pussnboots@geocities.com> wrote
>
>Julia Jones wrote: re:
>> >Slayer/Servilan is more melencholy than threatening (cf SAND).
>>
>> That's an interesting misspelling of Sleer - Freudian slip?
>
>naw, he's been watching those Buffy reruns.
nope - depending on the time of night (and how many soma cocktails - it's
actually phonetic spelling <g>)
>I think the Commissioner was supposed to take the "front line" patrol
>role of Travis - I wish the new president was mentioned more as the top
>heavy.
Indeed - the new power structure/elite was very vague and the coup that
brought it into place was hard to follow. I think it's supposed to be
outlined in "Traitor" but I get lost as to the machinations (sic?).
>hmmmm 4th season Avon vs. 1st season Travis. Now that's a contest I
>should like to see.
Agreed - but on what criteria?
Danger to nay-sayers & enemies
Danger to friends (OK close aquaintances)
Sheer loopiness (Sorry that's Series 2 Travis and Series 3 Avon -
"Harvest" <g>)
Classic quotes?
"Gentlemen - choose your weapons"
Regards: John
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 17:17:54 +0100
From: "Jenni O" <xlf23@dial.pipex.com>
To: "Lysator List" <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Criminals
Message-Id: <199806111623.SAA01857@samantha.lysator.liu.se>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Judith wrote:
>
> > It's interesting to note that the series completely ignored that charge
of child
> > molesting and yet realistically it should have come back to haunt
Blake. Child
> > molesters in jail are frequent targets of attacks by other inmates.
Did the
> > other prisoners on the London all believe Blake to have been framed?
Was his
> > charisma such that he managed to convince them of his innocence or were
they all
> > in holding cells at the time of his trial and unaware of what he was
suposed to
> > have done?
Morgaine wrote
>
> Perhaps since he was such a well known political figure they were able
> to look past that charge, if in fact they even knew about it. Since
> these prisoners were of criminal mindset they may have been sceptical of
> any charges brought on by the Federation false or otherwise.
> Also after the prisoners were on the London, they were quite
> drugged so Blake being a "child molester" probably was the furthest from
> their minds. (Living their lives out on Cygnus Alpha was probably their
> maion concern)
Since Ven Glynd claimed eventually to be a rebel sympathiser, perhaps he
arranged for it to be noised about that Blake's charges were a setup, since
his plans relied on Blake being free?
Jenni
*****************************************
Thoughts travel faster in a Vacuum
*****************************************
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 18:45:45 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Criminals
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.42-0611174545-313Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
On Thu 11 Jun, Jenni O wrote:
> Since Ven Glynd claimed eventually to be a rebel sympathiser, perhaps he
> arranged for it to be noised about that Blake's charges were a setup, since
> his plans relied on Blake being free?
That's an interesting thought. Though I suspect Glynd's 'conversion' came a
little later when he saw as a way to power for himself. However, it does
suggest that Glynd though he could clear Blake very convincingly and that in
turn implies that the charges hadn't convinced everyone by a long chalk.
At he same time, Blake's desire to be cleared showed that some notice must have
been taken of them although to be fair he might have wanted to be formally
cleared even if nobody believed in them.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 18:51:56 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fourth Season - why??
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.42-0611175156-bbaRr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
On Thu 11 Jun, Rob Clother wrote:
>
>
> Christine Lacey on Assassin:
>
> > Admittedly it had its crappy aspects, but hell, if you can't cope with some
> > bad acting, silly costumes and ridiculous monsters, why watch B7?
>
> Certainly not for the special effects, for a start!
>
> That's it, though. My flatmate watches B7 and says, "Oh, this could have
> been a brilliant programme if the special effects were any good." I don't
> even bother to argue with this comment -- I just think to myself, "What a
> wally" -- but in fact, there is something to be said for his point of
> view. We've all got certain tastes (some of them crappier than others,
> but that's beside the point) and when you're watching something like B7
> some of our tastes mitigate against others. In other words, we filter
> out the rubbish parts to get to what we really like about what we're
> watching.
In my wilder dreams, somebody decides to re-edit Blake's 7 and changes nothing
except the special efects. Not a single character moment is lost or changed,
but the space battles suddenly look amazing.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 20:50:18 -0400
From: "cmhg" <cmhg@email.msn.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] B7 Videos in USA
Message-ID: <034d01bd959c$133c5600$c752fad0@default>
Hello there! I am new to the B7 mailing list but not new to B7, I'm a fan
from way back - Avon is my hero :). Don't know if it has been mentioned at
all, but the B7 videos are available now from Columbia House video. You can
get the first video (2 episodes on each) for 89 cents, and you are
subscribed thereafter to receive the rest (if you want them) each month
($19.95 each I believe). You can check it out online at
www.columbiahouse.com/vl
hg
cmhg@msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 19:10:26 -0700
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: "'blakes7@lysator.liu.se'" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon
Message-ID: <35808E12.1A0F@jps.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
McClellan, Patti wrote:
>
> Rob has hit the nail on the head as far as I'm concerned. That's Avon.
> And the extra torture is that he's not unaware of the problem, IMO.
>
> I've been incredibly, horribly immersed in RL and absent from this list
> for a while. But this drew me back in. To me, the best part of fourth
> season Avon is his growing conviction that he's on he verge of losing
> his mind and taking the rest of the crew with him. And indeed, he did,
> I suppose. And as always, it's entirely possible no one else saw that
> in Paul's performance. Diversity is life.
I'm with you-- Avon is very self-aware. He knows he hides strong
personal ideals (I've noticed that it's usually the small risks that he
passes on to others, and the larger ones he takes for himself, which
says to me he is dodging inconvienence rather than danger) and he really
objects to more impersonal ideals, becuse he doesn't trust them.But the
more he loses on people, the more he ends up reaching for something
bigger to believe in that won't let him down.
Wow, did I say that? Don't shoot me!
--Avona
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 19:14:35 -0700
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: pussnboots@geocities.com
CC: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fourth Season
Message-ID: <35808F0A.1F29@jps.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Pat Patera wrote:
>
> Julia Jones wrote:
> > They didn't quite script it as "What a pity Pinder had that little
> > accident, I don't feel like shagging him any more, but I quite fancy
> > that bit of stuff you've brought with you."
>
> More interesting was Vila's reaction to Egrorian's attentions. How
> easily he fell into the role of amusing consort! Not in the least
> offended or distraught by Egrorian's blatant flirting. He seems, in
> fact, to quite enjoy it. (So does Avon, for that matter, which is
> strange; perhaps I should give him more credit for a sense of humor).
> Vila's behavior brings to mind the fan stories that place Vila in a
> compromising position many times during his many stints in reform
> schools, prisions, etc. He acquiesed in order to survive. Some time ago
> Lindly wrote a pithy account of Vila's perfect representation of the
> feminine side of human behavior. And in this ep, that feminine side pops
> up quickly and effortlessly.
> Pat P
Speaking as a female-- admirataion is fun, when you know you are safe
from over-bold advances. Perhaps the fact that Vila and Avon weren't
bothered by Egrorian has something to do with the fact that they
_trusted_ each other, this being before the actual Orbit-incident.Vila
knew if he told Egrorian to back off, Avon would make sure he backed.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 20:30:59 -0700
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fourth Season - why??
Message-ID: <3580A0F3.748@jps.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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> > And, of course, Cally, who I liked very much
> > up to S-L-D but who got on my nerves
> > once she stopped being a suicidal terrorist
> > and became a caring mystic,
> yes, so sad - the Nurse Chappel syndrome
> I drool over Cally's initial appearance - a red devil on a dust bowl
> planet - something out of Dune. Oh, if only they'd let her be a true
> alien.
I kind of liked the later Cally, when she wasn't written too drippy--
but the possession routines sure got old! Most importantly, though, is
yes, what happened to the fanatic who wanted to die with the comrades
she'd outlived? Who would've killed Blake without remorse if she hadn't
been talked into deciding he might be okay? Hell, that Cally would have
kept the others from scaring Shrinker and lowering themselves-- by
putting a bullet through his brain herself! I miss that Cally. A
combination would be okay. Caring and considerte, warm and forgiving to
those within her circle, bristley, dangerous and hostile towards those
who hadn't earned her trust.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 16:01:10 +1000
From: Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fourth Season - why??
Message-ID: <19980612160110.17605@welkin.apana.org.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Wed, Jun 10, 1998 at 10:16:59PM -0700, Pat Patera wrote:
> (Can't you just see Soolin as a fluffy Southern Belle on a rich Gauda
> Prime plantation - and her subsequent change to hardened killer?)
> <shivver> hey! isn't that the plotline of Buffy the Vampire Slayer?
I can see it now...
"In every generation, there is a Chosen One. She alone will stand
against the vampires, the demons, and the forces of darkness. She is
the Slayer."
-- Watcher Handbook
"Um, Soolin, why is this drawer full of sharp, pointed bits of wood?"
"None of your business."
...
"I knew Dorian wasn't your run-of-the-mill vampire, but I didn't find
out about the Basement until he brought you people. Don't worry, if
Avon hadn't killed the Thing, I would have done it."
--
_--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
/ \ | http://connexus.apana.org.au/~kat
\_.--.*/ | #include "std/disclaimer.h"
v |
------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere
Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 15:43:21 +0930
From: "Ophelia" <ophelia@picknowl.com.au>
To: "Lysator List" <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Criminals
Message-ID: <01bd95c9$337ae8a0$LocalHost@waltersmith>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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>Export markets are possibly another reason (apart from censorship at home)
why
>characters like Egrorian were never explitly stated to be gay.
That's possible - but take 'Allo 'Allo, another
80s tv show that was regarded as "good
family entertainment," so much so that when
Gorden Kaye came out a British MP
demanded he resign from the role of Rene.
Sure, Gruber married Helga after nine series,
but was there ever *any* doubt that Gruber
was male-oriented and had a crush on Rene?
And it was sold even in the most unlikely
countries, such as Israel and Germany.
I think countries that would have a problem
with LesBiGay characters are unlikely to have the
right cultural tools to decode them as gay.
LesBiGay characters rarely *kiss* on telly,
but that's an English-speaking world problem
rather than an export issue.
>It's interesting to note that the series completely ignored that charge of
child
>molesting and yet realistically it should have come back to haunt Blake.
Child
>molesters in jail are frequent targets of attacks by other inmates. Did
the
>other prisoners on the London all believe Blake to have been framed? Was
his
>charisma such that he managed to convince them of his innocence or were
they all
>in holding cells at the time of his trial and unaware of what he was
suposed to
>have done?
No, he kept protesting his innocence
and no one believed him, even when
he went on a hunger strike and nearly
lost his baby, and Queen Bea jammed
his hand in the press and he was too
scared of her to report it and even when
he slit his wrists they just nicknamed
him Wonky Warner, and... Sorry. Wrong
show. Thought I was back in
Australia for a moment.
Seriously, it was a bad writing error
in Blakes 7. I find it hardly likely that,
drugged or not, a group of prisoners
would accept a convicted child-molester
as a leader. After all, it was precisely
because such a charge would completely
discredit him that it was picked. And
prosopners are notorious for setting up
their own violence-based justice order to
compensate for their powerlessness to
affect the outside world. I don't beleive
no one on the London knew what Blake was
convicted of, either - Blake's enemies would
make sure the word went around. I think
in theend we just have to put it down to
inconsistent plotting, and shrug it off.
>IN fact the same level of acceptance applies to all the crew. Their pasts
never
>prove a hindrance. When the young surgeon in 'Breakdown' recognises Jenna,
he's
>delighted. I guess smugglers had glamour as they often have had
historically.
>
>In many ways, I can understand resistance leaders not baulking at working
with a
>fraudster, a murderer, a thief a smuggler and an alien. They probably had
some
>of the same in their own ranks. A convicted child-molester though? Alta
Morag
>chose well when she picked a crime to destroy Blake with. Can you imagine
the
>reaction if a leading political figure today was accused of that? I don't
think
>he'd ever recover.
Yeah. Gary Glitter even got cut out of the
Spice Girls movie - talk about inhuman
punishments! Australians seem less
interested in the erotic behaviour of our
pollies than the Poms and the Merkins are,
most of us just laughed at the charges
levelled at Kernot. Allegations of wife-bashing
are the more usual way to permanently
discredit Aussie politicians.
>How did Blake survive? When he says 'I'm Roj Blake, you may have heard of
me',
>why does nobody say 'You bastard'?
LOL. Again, bad writing.
>Not only does the series ignore this issue, but fanfic does too. I'd be
hard
>put to think of three stories that pick up on it. You can see why of
course.
>It's not a topic that many people would want to put into a story.
I seem to remember a few, all slash,
including a couple in which Blake *was*
guilty. I'm surprised there weren't more, it
should open up fascinating possiblities to
anyone interested in Blake.
>Any yet, if the series was never going to mention the topic again, why
introduce
>it in the first place? I think it was a bold move to accuse Blake of
something
>so controversial. Or would it simply have become a dull repetative topic
(much
>as forever failing to find Blake might have been if the third series had
gone
>that way) with Blake having to try and prove his innocence over and over
again
>to every person he met?
Like, the "I didn't kill my best friend
and I'm going to shoot 100 people
to prove it" plot? <g>
>I think 'Voice From the Past' is the only episode that mentions Blake's
trial at
>all and even then, I wouldn't swear that it mentions what he was accused
of,
>only that the trial was faked.
Question - if Vila thought he was guilty,
how would our sweetie have reacted?
- XXX Lindley
Ophelia - ophelia@picknowl.com.au
"The girl has beauty, virtue, wit,
Grace, humour, wisdom, charity and pluck."
LONDON CALLING - a list to discuss Britcoms and knockwurst.
http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/2511/knockwurst.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 15:20:53 +0930
From: "Ophelia" <ophelia@picknowl.com.au>
To: "B7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fourth Season
Message-ID: <01bd95c6$101de5e0$LocalHost@waltersmith>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Accidentally deleted the reference,
sorry...
>Julia says -
>
>> They didn't quite script it as "What a pity Pinder had that little
>> accident, I don't feel like shagging him any more, but I quite fancy
>> that bit of stuff you've brought with you."
>
>Can anybody think of another show where this would be an acceptable plot
>line? Particularly the way Vila doesn't mind a bit (until he realises
>Egrorian is not only mad and bad but dangerous to know).
And I'd put in that Avon was *definitely*
playing up to it... Graciously allowing
his property to be admired - at a distance -
was how I read it. <grin>
Being able to "tell" a character is supposed
to be LesBiGay without actually being
shown/told is absolutely bloody essential
to being a good audience of TV, movies
and books. The creators *rely* on you being
able to do this, and I think "Orbit" and
"Gmbit" are two excellent examples of this.
Even when it seems obvious - take
characters like Mr. Humphries
in Are You Being Served? f'rinstance,
it's rarely actually spelled out. We just
know what clues to look for, isn't that
so?
You can actually get away with a hell
of a lot if you only don't quite say it,
thus allowing it to be denied or ignored
if someone (sub)consciously wants to
read it "straight." Can't think of any
shows of the early 80s straight off, but
all thru English literature there's
always been characters of which it is
never quite said they are same-sex
oriented. <g>
To go all literary on you, there's two
classic queer studies essays you can
check out - D.A. Miller's "Anal Rope"
explores how homosexuality is aligned
with the connotative (suggested) while
heterosexuality is detonative (shown).
Danae Clark's "Commodity Lesbianism,"
explores the ways in which the mass
media is *very* good at making gayness
a) bloody obvious and
b) absolutely invisible,
at one and the same time, to different people.
Which explains why Kathryn sees only
Egrorian/Servalan, while the rest of us
watch our slash-detectors go right off
the scale...
XXX Lindley, who should really be writing
a version of this thought in her thesis
right now.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 09:59:54 +0100
From: "Alison Page" <alison@alisonpage.demon.co.uk>
To: "Lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Criminals
Message-Id: <E0ykPiz-0007UZ-00@post.mail.demon.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lindley says -
>
> Question - if Vila thought he was guilty,
> how would our sweetie have reacted?
Imagine an episode where Vila comes to believe Blake is guilty. He'd kind
of fade into the background, make himself invisible. Next time they were
running around on a planet (well, an inhabited one) you would come to
realise that Vila wasn't running around with them. That would be the last
episode with Vila in it.
Alison
--------------------------------
End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #163
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