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------------------------------
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blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 18
Today's Topics:
Re: [B7L] Slash debate
Re: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown
Re: [B7L] Blake's Charisma
[B7L] Re: Beards and the silly season
RE: [B7L] Get into the pay per call industry for FREE
[B7L] scripts
[B7L] Sevenfold Crown
[B7L] Re: Blake's charisma
Re: [B7L] Tyce's presence and so on
Re: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown
Re: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown
Re: [B7L] Avon's Angels
[B7L] New Here with a question.
Re: [B7L] Avon's Angels
RE: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown
Re: [B7L] Blake's Charisma
[B7L] t-shirt slogans
Re: [B7L] Slash debate/OT Steven Donaldson
RE: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown
Re: [B7L] New Here with a question.
Re: [B7L] South Park Liberator (pt. 2)
[B7L] South Park Liberator
Re: [B7L] t-shirt slogans
Re: [B7L] New Here with a question.
Re: [B7L] Avon's Angels
Re: [B7L] Blake's Charisma
Re: [B7L] t-shirt slogans
Re[2]: [B7L] t-shirt slogans
[B7L] Re: Sevenfold Crown (and Beards)
[B7L] Tyce
Re: [B7L] Slash debate
Re: [B7L] New Here with a question.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 21:20:25 -0800
From: Ovina Maria Feldman <ofeldman@gte.net>
To: B7 <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Slash debate
Message-ID: <34C2E299.6AF608C9@gte.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Pat Patera wrote:
> And yet most of the authors on the NYT best seller list are men. Just
> like most of the great writers and painters of history. HIS STORY?
>
> I think that when it comes to money making endeavors, men are more
> focused and more motivated. But in social situations (and fandom has
> often been called "a sandbox in which everyone can play together" women
> invest more time and energy, without expecting any measurable gain or
> glory.
This is so much BS... Historically, for the last 2500 years or so, men
have controlled the social and economics factors that allow them to earn
, get or control wealth or capital or whatever term you may want to
apply. They have controlled the publishing world. There have been any
number of accomplished female writers and painters, etc. throughout
history; but you do have to look for them a little because it has been
men who have been getting the history books published. It has also been
men who passed laws that specifically banned women from owning property,
from receiving an education, from being involved in governance, from
doing just about anything that wasn't decorative or involved with
providing men with babies!
I realize this isn't the proper forum for this kind of rant, but some
kinds of miopia just have to be addressed.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 21:10:20 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.09-0118201020-0b0Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1
On Sun 18 Jan, Dangermouse wrote:
> Yet another argument for why it should have been PGP... ('cos by then maybe
> they would)
No, I'd have hated a PGP. A PGP claiming to be canonial would fix too many
things that I prefer left unfixed. My motives are purely selfish. If they
had done a PGP without Blake, they would have continued in like vein if they
ever do another one. If they stick to within the series, there's a chance
that they'll do a first or second season episode.
Bring Back Blake!
>
> > Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
> > 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
> > http://www.smof.com/redemption/
>
> Hmm. This sounds like it might be a fun place for a honeymoon...
You are a man of amazing sagacity. Find me at Deliverance or the Neutral
Zone and I shall sell you two memberships with my own tender hands. <smile>
You know it's a nice hotel, you've stayed there before.
Judith
PS. If you have a pair of suspenders, than you may claim to be a man of
infinite resource and sagacity.
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 19:52:37 -0800
From: Luxueil <jlv@halcyon.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Blake's Charisma
Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980118195237.007f5410@mail.halcyon.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 03:55 PM 1/18/98 -0800, Buck, Courtney wrote:
>>Judith wrote:
>>The way that we judge charisma is inevitably affected by the reactions
>>of others and if the rest of the crew are seen as largely unaffected,
>>then the impact on us will be correspondingly reduced.
>If this is true, how do you explain the overwhelming charismatic effect of
Avon?
> The rest of the crew are generally unaffected by, and disagreeing with,
Avon;
>yet *his* charisma shines through as brilliant as a dozen exploding Novas.
The fact that the crew are generally unaffected by Avon indicates, to me,
that he lacks whatever you are calling charisma. *Fans* find Avon
fascinating, but I don't remember that anyone in the series does (except
Meegat). Those who are persuaded by him, are usually persuaded by his
threats. Not because he's an irrisistable guy.
For the Feds to have done what they did to Blake, multiple times, indicates
that he was a threat to them at one time, in his ability to motivate people
to action contrary to Fed goals, and in the memory of him in those times.
Blake as we know him isn't interested in swaying masses, leading rabble, or
ruling Earth - he simply wants to destroy the Federation.
Nicole (damn, this work avoidance behaviour has got to stop - Fingers, stop
typing! Modem, stop downloading! Eyes, stop reading! Mind, stop thinking
about B7! Get to work!)
------------------------------------------------------------
Three candles shine from a noble heart:
Justice with mercy, truth with compassion, excellence with humility.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 06:02:29 -0500
From: Harriet Monkhouse <H_F_Monkhouse@compuserve.com>
To: "Blake's 7 (Lysator)" <BLAKES7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Re: Beards and the silly season
Message-ID: <199801190603_MC2-2FD0-6B54@compuserve.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Our hairy friend Alex said:
>Well, at least I know what to buy myself on my 30th birthday
>(coming up in a few months!): a hair electrolysis kit.
Alex, I never knew you cared!
Our bearded friend Ian said:
> I've done a fair bit of acting, and it's made it
>difficult for me to watch plays/TV/movies,
>because I get distracted from the show by
> thinking "hmm, that was a nice reaction" or
> "ooh, what a horrible line reading". Most irritating.
I know, like trying to read a story when you're continually correcting the
punctuation and grammar.
Harriet
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 11:25:57 +0000
From: Richard Watts <Richard.Watts@cl.cam.ac.uk>
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: RE: [B7L] Get into the pay per call industry for FREE
Message-Id: <E0xuFL3-0000oW-00@canada.cl.cam.ac.uk>
[ Oops - sorry Tom & Louise: I hit the wrong button and accidentally
sent this to you directly, rather than to the list :-(. Come back,
UNSEND, all is forgiven ... ]
On Sun 18 January 1998, Louise Rutter
<Louise.Rutter@btinternet.com> wrote:
>Kathryn Andersen asked:
>>Calle! Isn't there some way for the List software to block all SPAM?
>
>Oh yes, indeed there is - only accept posts from people who are subscribed.
>Unfortunately, this makes life really annoying for people whose posting
>addresses are not the same as the address they recieve the list on.
The other way of doing it is to have 'post-only' subscriptions.
[snip]
>I don't think the problem is very bad at the moment - 2 bits of spam in the
>last year or so? It could very easily get worse very quickly, of course.
It will. Most of the lists I'm subscribed to have started getting
one or two bits of spam a week, if not more (gnu-win32, ssleay-users).
RISKS has been getting vast amounts of spam for some time now.
Even a fairly coarse access-control mechanism (rrw1000@*.cam.ac.uk,
for example) should block 99% of spam - most of it seems to come
either from its own domain, or from places like AOL or CompuServe
where people aren't likely to be using more than a small, fixed number
of userids. Calle ? Have the majordomo people cottoned on to this yet ?
[snip]
>number and going ex-directory. Also, like double-glazing salesmen's lists -
>once you're on one, you tend to somehow migrate to the others'. Time will
>tell...
Indeed. However, it does have useful properties - just kill all mail
with iemmc.com (or whatever it is) in the headers :-). This used to
work quite well, but the spammers have recently caught on to it, and
my last batch get past this filter.
Sadly, even killing on *.com doesn't seem to work these days :-(,
Richard.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 23:35:15 +1100
From: Fran Myers <algemy@ozemail.com.au>
To: B7 <blake7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] scripts
Message-ID: <34C34883.2125@ozemail.com.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
many years ago, the Beeb published facsimiles of working scripts for B7.
These are badly duplicated, misspelt, with recording dates, etc - all
the original errors. I have a copy each of "Death Watch" and "Orac"
which I want to get rid of.
Anyone interested? They'd be Aus$30 each (what I paid for them) plus
postage.
Fran M
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 98 13:27:00 PST
From: "Taylor, Steve [MIS]" <S.Taylor@lmu.ac.uk>
To: blakes7 <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown
Message-ID: <34C3C553@courier.lmu.ac.uk>
Spoiler Space
Well - I listened to it; fell asleep for about 5 minutes in the middle <:-<;
was not that impressed. Still, it was better than nothing after all these
years.
I agree with most of the comments I have seen so far about the
inconsistencies and anomalies.
I didn't really like the way Servalan's voice has changed (not her fault of
course) but the others, particularly Avon and Tarrant, were still very
similar. The new women did very well to get into the characters. I don't
think it works as well as a radio play - although it was easier if I shut my
eyes (hence the snooze).
Did you notice the 'it looks like an abandoned quarry' comment? - no
change there then.
No doubt the Avon fan club were/will be drooling over the concept of two
Avons!
I can see several possibilities for the slash fans and faulty teleporters as
well (VBG) but that for the other list.
Anyway - I taped it on VHS stereo tape so I can listen to it without turning
the tape over and also get a better recording!
Thanks a gain for those who reminded me when it was on.
SteveT
Cloning plant - or faulty teleport - what's the difference?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 09:34:28 -0500 (EST)
From: NWOutsider <sclerc@bgnet.bgsu.edu>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Re: Blake's charisma
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.95.980119093147.13494E-100000@alpha.bgsu.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Sun, 18 Jan Luxueil wrote:
Courtney wrote:
>>If this is true, how do you explain the overwhelming charismatic
>>effect of Avon?
>
>The fact that the crew are generally unaffected by Avon indicates, to me,
>that he lacks whatever you are calling charisma. *Fans* find Avon
>fascinating, but I don't remember that anyone in the series does (except
>Meegat). Those who are persuaded by him, are usually persuaded by his
>threats. Not because he's an irrisistable guy.
Yeah! That's the distinction I was trying to point out between
what happens in the series v. fan reaction to the actors. And it's good to
see you posting again, Nicole.
And Lisa Williams wrote, in response to the sadly misguided Courtney:
>Here again, I'll have to disagree -- I never saw Avon as having charisma.
>Sex appeal, perhaps, at least to some (he's not my type, so I can't
>really say), but not charisma. I like him, but I certainly wouldn't be
>inclined to follow him based purely on his personality. I don't see him
>as having the sort of almost hypnotic appeal that can sway the masses.
Well said (well, typed 8-), Lisa.
Sue
sclerc@bgnet.bgsu.edu Http://www.bgsu.edu/~sclerc/Blakes7.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 09:34:09 EST
From: penny_kjelgaard@juno.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Tyce's presence and so on
Message-ID: <19980119.062932.15719.0.Penny_Kjelgaard@juno.com>
Russ wrote:
>
>And Tyce...well, I liked her as a character, but not really as a person.
>I didn't think she was particularly beautiful, but she was sassy and
>full of spirit, if not spite. I detested that leer she tossed to Blake
>at the end of the program. Nothing like a woman who hasn't seen a real
>man in who know's how long.
>
That's a foul slur on the masculinity of Federation troopers everywhere!
<YUP>
> Tyce was the only woman on a planet with at least a section of 9
troopers (who
>were probably rotated every three standard months) for 7 years. Are you
>saying that not one of these 252 individuals was a real man?
<YUP>
>There's always one who polishes his dark visor to a sensuous sheen, or
another >whose overalls bag *just* that little bit less - small signals,
but significant, surely.
Well, Russ, my dear, Tyce seemed to me a staunch supporter of freedom,
AND her father. Would she take up with an enemy?
>>>>>OH! I hear the fan fic writers scurring to their story boards.....
Penny
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 13:58:26 +0000 (GMT)
From: Malcolm Mladenovic <mbm@mort.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown
Message-Id: <199801191358.NAA00342@mort.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> I haven't heard the radio play or read the script, but 'Bring me up'
> seems to me to be suspiciously close to a Star Trek -ism: Isn't ST
> content with having corrupted Dr. Who?
Blake and Avon, at least, both use the phrase in the TV version several
times, though not as often as I thought they did before I checked.
As for the play, I quite liked it, though I think the average R4 Saturday
afternoon play listener may have been hopelessly confused!
-Malcolm
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 98 15:25:00 PST
From: "Taylor, Steve [MIS]" <S.Taylor@lmu.ac.uk>
To: blakes7 <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown
Message-ID: <34C3E118@courier.lmu.ac.uk>
Malcolm said
>As for the play, I quite liked it, though I think the average R4 Saturday
>afternoon play listener may have been hopelessly confused!
I have to agree with this. I cannot see that it was possible to follow what
was going on without a Blake's 7 background. There was very little scene
setting.
SteveT
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 15:28:54 +0000 (GMT)
From: Iain Coleman <ijc@mail.nerc-bas.ac.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon's Angels
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980119152458.2921A-100000@bsauasc>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Sun, 18 Jan 1998, Pat Patera wrote:
> his "followers" on target. Indeed, they belonged to Blake, even after
> his departure. Altho Avon *wanted* to follow a different path, he seemed
> gripped still by an unseen hand on his rudder.
Was I the only person who nearly spluttered coffee all over the monitor
after reading that line?
"Carry On Blake" - now there's a thought. Kenneth Williams as Avon,
certainly, but I'm torn between Sid James and Charles Hawtrey for Blake.
Iain
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 11:05:45 -0600
From: Fewox@webtv.net (Joel Rollins)
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] New Here with a question.
Message-Id: <199801191705.JAA28018@mailtod-122.bryant.webtv.net>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Have been a fan of B7 for quite a while but have only perhaps most of
the first season and a few bits here and there from other seasons.....I
wasn't aware how the series ended until I checked out a page with the
plots and scripts and I read the script for "Blake".
My question is: What is the general attitude of fans of the show about
that episode? I can't think of a more unsatisfying ending than that but
on the other hand its not the typical ending where everything gets
neatly wrapped up in a tidy little package either. I imagine that quite
a few defend the episode on that basis. Its is unusual and perhaps more
realistic than many shows because heros don't always win and endings
aren't always happy. However I have think the wholesale slaughter of
the entire crew was kind of poor.
Again I'm new to discussing this show.....around here...in Texas....it
seems that even fewer people know of Blake's 7 than know of Doctor Who
and that makes the number of people to converse with small indeed. So
please be patient with me if I'm rehashing often walked ground.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 17:01:22 -0000
From: "Heather Smith" <Heather.Smith@btinternet.com>
To: "Blake's 7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon's Angels
Message-Id: <E0xuKg5-0001cH-00@snow.btinternet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Iain wrote:
> Was I the only person who nearly spluttered coffee all over the monitor
> after reading that line?
You're definitely not alone! Although with me it was nearly choking on an
Aero bar (healthy creature me).
> "Carry On Blake" - now there's a thought. Kenneth Williams as Avon,
> certainly, but I'm torn between Sid James and Charles Hawtrey for Blake.
Sid James I reckon, for sure.
Ovina wrote:
>I haven't heard the radio play or read the script, but 'Bring me up'
>seems to me to be suspiciously close to a Star Trek -ism: Isn't ST
>content with having corrupted Dr. Who?
Forgive me for being thick, but I am an ardent Who fan, I can't think of
occasions when Trek corrupted Who (I can think of far too many occasions
when Trek ripped off Who tho' Cybermen/Borg, anyone?)
Heather 'can't think of a clever quote to go here' Smith
'There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish'
-The fourth Doctor
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 17:54:43 -0000
From: Duncan <duncan@orioneng.co.uk>
To: "'blakes7@lysator.liu.se'" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: RE: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown
Message-ID: <0B010792B465D1118B2A00A0C949B91C27ED@ENTERPRISE>
Content-Type: text/plain
> Oh No!!! Please tell me I did'nt miss it?????
>
> Anyway, hello to everyone here. I lurked around on this list about 3
> years ago, but now I have a more permanent address I thought i'd
> re-subscribe! Are there any plans by the BBC to release this on
> tape??
>
> Cheers,
> Duncan Murray
> duncan@orioneng.co.uk
(Apologies if this is posted twice - Mail Server Disaster!)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Taylor, Steve [MIS] [SMTP:S.Taylor@lmu.ac.uk]
> Sent: Monday, January 19, 1998 11:25 PM
> To: blakes7
> Subject: Re: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown
>
> Steve said that
> Malcolm said
>
> >As for the play, I quite liked it, though I think the average R4
> Saturday
> >afternoon play listener may have been hopelessly confused!
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 09:02:18 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Blake's Charisma
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.09-0119080218-bc8Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1
On Mon 19 Jan, Buck, Courtney wrote:
> >Judith wrote:
> >The way that we judge charisma is inevitably affected by the reactions
> >of others and if the rest of the crew are seen as largely unaffected,
> >then the impact on us will be correspondingly reduced.
>
> If this is true, how do you explain the overwhelming charismatic effect of Avon?
> The rest of the crew are generally unaffected by, and disagreeing with, Avon;
> yet *his* charisma shines through as brilliant as a dozen exploding Novas.
It's like Lisa said. Avon doesn't have charisma, he has sex appeal. I lust
after Avon (One of the good bits in the Sevenfold Crown is a bit near the
end where we get a sense of Avon's loneliness). What Blake has is a
passionate conviction that compels belief. I don't lust after Blake, but he
might have been able to convince me to follow him.
Wasn't it Vila who said of Avon "His idea of diplomacy is to knock a lame
man over and then offer him a stick" (I've not got the words exactly right,
but that's the general gist)
> For the record, I like Blake. Season 2 is my favorite. The show really did
> lose a lot when it, unfortunately, lost the Avon/Blake, Avon-Blake interaction.
> *I* just don't see Blake as charismatic as the show implies he MUST have been.
>
> This applies only to Blake, however, not to Gareth Thomas...who I adore.
Me too <big smile>. I'll take Gareth over Blake any day.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 09:51:57 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] t-shirt slogans
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.09-0119085157-06cRr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1
On Mon 19 Jan, penny_kjelgaard@juno.com wrote:
> Julia Jones wrote:
>
> >Perhaps we can test this theory at Deliverence by presenting Paul with a
> >shirt.
>
> OK...what kind of slogan can we come up with for a t-shirt for our
> greying friends?
Dunno about greying. I think Gareth's past that stage <grin> (Ironic when
he's actually younger than Paul!)
Paul - 'the sexiest voice in the universe'
Gareth - 'I'm not fat. I'm cuddly.'
Jackie - 'If you've got it - flaunt it'
David Jackson - 'Gan, but not forgotten'
Judith
PS. I notice Sally Knyvette is now on the guest list for Deliverance which
completes the first season crew. Whopee!
PPS. I'm taking orders for overseas zines for Deliverance. I've got
several requests already, but if there are zines that I agent that you
particularly want, please let me know as soon as possible so that I can ship
them over in good time. Titles include: Gambit, Bizzaro, Southern Seven,
Probability Square, Southern Comfort etc. and there will be even more added
to the list in a couple of weeks time.
I'm also happy to take pre-orders for my own zines. It makes it easier for
me to know what to bring, and it means you won't miss out on a title you
particularly want if I sell out quickly.
I can only bring a small amount of stuff upto the Neutral Zone (long rail
journey changing in London), so if anyone wants zines there, I would really
appreciate knowing which ones in advance.
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 19:00:53 -0000
From: "Jenni O" <xlf23@dial.pipex.com>
To: "Louise Rutter" <Louise.Rutter@btinternet.com>,
"'B7 Lysator'" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Slash debate/OT Steven Donaldson
Message-Id: <199801191904.UAA23729@samantha.lysator.liu.se>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
----------
> From: Louise Rutter <Louise.Rutter@btinternet.com>
> To: 'B7 Lysator' <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
> Subject: RE: [B7L] Slash debate
> Date: 17 January 1998 17:46
>
> Pat Patera listed a few greats:
> >I tend to find this true in commercial fiction as well. Men tend
to
> >write more exciting action plots, but I seldom care whether the
> >characters survive or not. Women tend to write characters I care
about,
> >but the excitement often isn't there. A few great writers can
handle
> >both: JRR Tolkien (Lord of the Rings, Barbara Hambly (most all her
> >fantasy books), Mary Stuart (the Merlin Trilogy).
>
> I'm intrigued. Would people like Steven Donaldson fit the bill. OK,
his
> most charactersome books are actually fantasy (the Mordant series
and the
> Thomas Coventant bitrilogy), but the latest "Gap" series is SF
(though
> nicked from fantasy).
IMO, Steven Donaldson writes very single dimensional characters. It's
not that he doesn't take them through the wringer, it's just that I
don't really care whether they come out the other side or not. I also
find that he has a fairly small selection of personalities to choose
from (what is the real difference between Nick Succorso and Angus
Thermopile?) and they seem fairly simillar in many ways to Thomas
Covenant himself. It's not that I don't like his books - I've got
everything he's written, and have read them several times - It's just
that they don't live and breath to me. (Saltheart Foamfollower is the
only exception - maybe he was based on someone SD knew?)
Jenni
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 19:42:24 +0000
From: Richard Watts <Richard.Watts@cl.cam.ac.uk>
To: "'B7 Lysator'" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: RE: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown
Message-Id: <E0xuN5U-00011b-00@canada.cl.cam.ac.uk>
On Sun 18 January 1998, Louise Rutter
<Louise.Rutter@btinternet.com> wrote:
>A bit of spoiler space first - I remembered just in time that some people
>can't get Radio 4 (e.g. non-Brits).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Actually, I thought it was rather good (though I've only heard it
once so far). Certainly a hell of a lot better than Power or Animals
(or Hostage or Orac or ...).
>Judith wailed:
>>Was I imagining it when the king didn't use the powers of the crown to
>>prevent it from being stolen from him, when Servalan didn't use the power
>of
>>her stone to neutralise a gun and when Avon didn't use the power of the
>>crown to get his own way when his crew threatened to use weapons against
>>him?
>
>No, you weren't. And of course there is the usual problem with telekinesis
>- if you can do anything useful at all, like stop the hammer of a gun going
>down (or whatever Scorpio guns have), then you can block the carotid
>arteries and easily knock someone out or kill them. You might need to block
>the ones round the spine as well, but only for a kill.
Oh, mumble mumble morphogenic field mumble teleport mumble. Actually,
I think this fits in quite well with the link between teleportation
and telekinesis.
I note that you'd only need to be able to move something a couple of
um to kill a scorpio gun (they're electronically fired). Now, if someone
had had a pistol...
[snip]
>>And as for Servalan forgetting to remove Tarrant's teleport bracelet -
>words
>>fail me.
I think we can excuse that as sheer greed, thoughtlessness, and the
off-chance of Avon walking up behind her with a gun at any moment.
>
>Am I right in thinking that nowhere in the series did anyone ever forget to
>do this (except when they wouldn't know what a bracelet was)? I don't
>recall them ever saying "Phew - lucky Servalan forgot to take our bracelets
>off." So if the series didn't even stoop that low...
True (AFAICT), but we have had worse examples of stupidity -
can we say Hostage, boys and girls ?
>
>>I've got to listen again to be sure whether I actually heard Servalan
>order
>>'Bring me up' in a context that implied a teleport. I hope I imagined it.
>>The Federation don't have the teleport.
>
>You didn't imagine it - I heard it too and thought "ooh - is this a cunning
>plot where our heroes have to destroy the Federation's new transporter
>technology? Has Servalan managed to capture Scorpio?" Er... no.
I rather interpreted that (at least at the beginning) as being
Servalan being able to influence Avon's dreams, but not to fully
control them, so she could force him to dream about being tortured,
but perhaps not control in what way he was being tortured.
>
>>Ah well, there were some good bits, and the acting at least was upto
>>scratch. The cast did a remarkably good job with the script and it was
>good
>>to hear them again. Orac was in top form, Avon was mean and Vila was
>>nervous.
Agreed :-)...
[snip]
>her name). It's not Paula Wilcox's fault what her voice sounds like, of
>course, but that image of late-middle-aged housewifeliness just doesn't say
>"Soolin" to me. Dodgy casting.
.. and agreed.
>
>The plot was a load of tosh, though.
In the best traditions of Chris Boucher :-).
>Take one outrageously implausible and
>daft Holy Grail, add in a smattering of irritating plot device complication
>with the power crystals and the malfunctioning teleporter, which then leads
>to a completely gratuitous plot device with two Avons, and as soon as that
>happens you can see exactly where it's leading - we have to get rid of one
>of them, but we can't have Avon just shoot his twin or anything - both
>Avons have to win in the end!
Erm, why ? Avon shooting his twin, thus allowing Servalan to `win' was
exactly what I was expecting. The ending was terrible, I agree, but
unfortunately, Avon#2 was the only expendable character - they should
probably've taken the diadem-guardy-person along to grab the crown
whilst Servalan was watching the Avons try to kill each other:
I think easing her control over the Avons to allow them to kill each
other would've played to her sense of making her plans more and more
complicated until her enemies escape...
[snip]
>Another really annoying quibble, made doubly annoying by how easy it would
>have been to fix, was that all the wrong sound effects were used.
True...
[snip]
>Oh well, maybe they'll do better next time. I _was_ pleased by the amount
>of coverage it got, though - nice to know the media still think it's worth
>a mention, even if it is twenty years old and this is just a one-off radio
>play.
Indeed. Then again, B7's a very personal show in a way that no-one
else seems to have been able to match: you get the feeling that you
could actually talk to the characters down the pub and find them
believable, as opposed to DS9 or B5: I can't really visualise
Sheridan going into a pub and not trying to defeat the evil forces
of the brewery, drive the bikers out of the table in the corner, and
ordering the pool table to break and attack...
Richard.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 14:49:13 EST
From: ShilLance <ShilLance@aol.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] New Here with a question.
Message-ID: <2619e590.34c3ae3b@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 98-01-19 12:23:51 EST, you write:
<< Have been a fan of B7 for quite a while but have only perhaps most of
the first season and a few bits here and there from other seasons.....I
wasn't aware how the series ended until I checked out a page with the
plots and scripts and I read the script for "Blake".
My question is: What is the general attitude of fans of the show about
that episode? I can't think of a more unsatisfying ending than that but
on the other hand its not the typical ending where everything gets
neatly wrapped up in a tidy little package either. I imagine that quite
a few defend the episode on that basis. Its is unusual and perhaps more
realistic than many shows because heros don't always win and endings
aren't always happy. However I have think the wholesale slaughter of
the entire crew was kind of poor.
Again I'm new to discussing this show.....around here...in Texas....it
seems that even fewer people know of Blake's 7 than know of Doctor Who
and that makes the number of people to converse with small indeed. So
please be patient with me if I'm rehashing often walked ground. >>
Can't speak for the general attitude of fans, but I always felt it needed at
least two parts to be effective. Maybe its the American in me, but it would
have been more effective seeing the crew fall one at a time over a period of
time, whether than all together at once. It would have been nice to see more
interaction between Blake and the Scorpio crew as well. Perhaps them joining
him and Avon wrongly being suspicious and then committing the act. I don't
know, it just seemed a bit rushed.
Anyone else feel the same?
Gwynn Shamlin
(Shil)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 16:22:27 -0500 (EST)
From: NWOutsider <sclerc@bgnet.bgsu.edu>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] South Park Liberator (pt. 2)
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.95.980119161318.46A-100000@alpha.bgsu.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Sun, 18 Jan 1998, Julia Jones wrote:
> > Come on, doesn't ANYBODY on this list watch South Park?
> No. What is it, I've never heard of it?
It's a twisted cartoon that airs on Comedy Central cable network
at 10 p.m. Wednesday (Eastern) and a couple of other times a week. The
main characters are 4 boys having various offensive adventures in South
Park, Colorado. Episodes, music videos (they did some Christmas song
videos as commercials) and the 5 minute short that started it all, the
wicked "Spirit of Xmas," can be downloaded in their entirety in several
formats on many sites around the web. The one I used this morning to
watch the first episode is South Park Headquarters:
http://eccentrica.org/cheesegod.
Sue
sclerc@bgnet.bgsu.edu http://www.bgsu.edu/~sclerc/Blakes7.html
"Hell, yeah, I want some Cheesy Poofs!"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 13:56:00 -0800
From: "PATTI McCLELLAN" <patti.mcclellan@kyl.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] South Park Liberator
Message-ID: <Megw.4797760@powell.fabrik.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit
Content-Disposition: inline
Umm...she said, revealing her utter ignorance, what is
"South Park"?
Patti
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:38:49 +1000
From: Gina Sartore <ginaa@psychvax.psych.su.OZ.AU>
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] t-shirt slogans
Message-Id: <v03007800b0e993db77fb@[129.78.82.186]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Judith wrote:
>
>David Jackson - 'Gan, but not forgotten'
>
<snort>*choke*
<wipes coffee off monitor>
thanks Judith, I'll have one of those, please.
gina
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 22:18:44 +0000
From: Julia Jones <Julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] New Here with a question.
Message-ID: <iwrYdaAEF9w0Ewes@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <199801191705.JAA28018@mailtod-122.bryant.webtv.net>, Joel
Rollins <Fewox@webtv.net> writes
>Have been a fan of B7 for quite a while but have only perhaps most of
>the first season and a few bits here and there from other seasons.....I
>wasn't aware how the series ended until I checked out a page with the
>plots and scripts and I read the script for "Blake".
>
>My question is: What is the general attitude of fans of the show about
>that episode? I can't think of a more unsatisfying ending than that but
>on the other hand its not the typical ending where everything gets
>neatly wrapped up in a tidy little package either.
You really need to have seen a bit more of the second season, and a
couple of third season episodes, particularly _Terminal_, and then *see*
_Blake_, not just read the script, before you get the full impact of
what's going on. A lot of it's in the non-verbal stuff that isn't
written in the script. The sheer tragic irony is stunning. Puts the
opera back into "space opera".
> I imagine that quite
>a few defend the episode on that basis. Its is unusual and perhaps more
>realistic than many shows because heros don't always win and endings
>aren't always happy. However I have think the wholesale slaughter of
>the entire crew was kind of poor.
Only one of the crew is definitely dead, and that's because the actor
wanted the character killed off, very messily, on screen. No "it was a
dream", no chance of him surviving. The script editor, Chris Boucher,
said that he deliberately set it up so that if the BBC had commissioned
a fifth series, any of the actors who wanted to go on could survive the
shoot-out, any who didn't would be dead. And if the Beeb didn't want a
fifth series - well, nobody who saw that episode was *ever* going to
forget it. He was right - we haven't. Most list members who've commented
say they have very clear memories of the first time they saw it, no
matter how often they've seen it since.
>
>Again I'm new to discussing this show.....around here...in Texas....it
>seems that even fewer people know of Blake's 7 than know of Doctor Who
>and that makes the number of people to converse with small indeed. So
>please be patient with me if I'm rehashing often walked ground.
>
Welcome, pull up a chair and sit down, we can always do with a new point
of view. In case you hadn't heard, there are plans afoot to re-release
the entire series on video, so if there's a US release you won't need to
depend on your local PBS station being nice to you. We can advise on
which episodes to skip if you're feeling low on money :-)
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 22:06:37 +0000
From: Julia Jones <Julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon's Angels
Message-ID: <dhRH5UAt58w0EwJz@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <Pine.OSF.3.96.980119152458.2921A-100000@bsauasc>, Iain
Coleman <ijc@mail.nerc-bas.ac.uk> writes
>
>
>On Sun, 18 Jan 1998, Pat Patera wrote:
>
>> his "followers" on target. Indeed, they belonged to Blake, even after
>> his departure. Altho Avon *wanted* to follow a different path, he seemed
>> gripped still by an unseen hand on his rudder.
>
>Was I the only person who nearly spluttered coffee all over the monitor
>after reading that line?
I don't believe it - I didn't see it when I read that post the first
time round, and I have been accused on numerous occasions of having a
sick and filthy mind.
>
>"Carry On Blake" - now there's a thought. Kenneth Williams as Avon,
>certainly, but I'm torn between Sid James and Charles Hawtrey for Blake.
>
Nonono - Sid James is Vila.
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 22:21:08 +0000
From: Julia Jones <Julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Blake's Charisma
Message-ID: <uwvbdjAUH9w0Ewfp@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <Marcel-1.09-0119080218-bc8Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>, Judith
Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk> writes
<snip>
>
>Me too <big smile>. I'll take Gareth over Blake any day.
>
Would you care to re-phrase that? (Yes, I know I have a filthy mind...)
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 22:28:52 +0000
From: Julia Jones <Julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] t-shirt slogans
Message-ID: <mwjZdkAkO9w0Ew+h@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <Marcel-1.09-0119085157-06cRr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>, Judith
Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk> writes
>On Mon 19 Jan, penny_kjelgaard@juno.com wrote:
>> Julia Jones wrote:
>>
>> >Perhaps we can test this theory at Deliverence by presenting Paul with a
>> >shirt.
>>
>> OK...what kind of slogan can we come up with for a t-shirt for our
>> greying friends?
>
>Dunno about greying. I think Gareth's past that stage <grin> (Ironic when
>he's actually younger than Paul!)
The unfortunate Whovian who was sharing a room with me at Who's 7 (and
knew far more about B7 at the end of the weekend than at the beginning
:-) ) was rather surprised to learn that Gareth was the younger of the
pair. Mind you, she thought he was adorable, and she'd barely heard of
B7 before the con.
>
>Paul - 'the sexiest voice in the universe'
:-)) Definitely. It just keeps getting better.
>
>Gareth - 'I'm not fat. I'm cuddly.'
And Judith is willing to prove it :-)
>
>Jackie - 'If you've got it - flaunt it'
Appropriate for both actress and character :-) I'm really looking
forward to seeing her at a con.
>
>David Jackson - 'Gan, but not forgotten'
That is sick, sick, sick :-)
>
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 16:53:00 -0800
From: "PATTI McCLELLAN" <patti.mcclellan@kyl.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re[2]: [B7L] t-shirt slogans
Message-ID: <Megw.4799677@powell.fabrik.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit
Content-Disposition: inline
How about this shirt for Paul:
Front: The Sevenfold Crown
Rear: Not Bad For a First Draft
patti
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 21:43:59 -0500
From: Harriet Monkhouse <H_F_Monkhouse@compuserve.com>
To: "Blake's 7 (Lysator)" <BLAKES7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Re: Sevenfold Crown (and Beards)
Message-ID: <199801192144_MC2-2FE7-8E25@compuserve.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Tom answered Judith:
>>I've got to listen again to be sure whether
>>I actually heard Servalan order 'Bring me
>>up' in a context that implied a teleport. I
>>hope I imagined it. The Federation don't
>>have the teleport.
>
>You didn't imagine it - I heard it too and thought "ooh -
>is this a cunning plot where our heroes have to
>destroy the Federation's new transporter technology?
>Has Servalan managed to capture Scorpio?" Er... no.
To be fair, wasn't that bit in Avon's dream?
He went on:
>Er... and the incidental music. The first two bars of
>the theme tune are repeated for bars five and six,
>but bars three and four are not! (it's AABBAACC,
>not AABBAABB as played)
This is getting mildly amusing - I come to the Sevenfold Crown's Defence
twice in one post after giving the play such a comprehensive slagging off
in Another Place. As you may have read there, one of the few new things I
liked was that short martial variation on the theme tune.
Or do I mean the only thing I liked.
Iain asked:
>I don't know whether to buy this or not, so I want to
>get it into perspective by comparing it to the worst
>B7 stuff I've spent money on for the sake of completeness.
>Is "Sevenfold Crown" better or worse than "Stardrive/Animals"?
Stardrive has got Vila's nifty faking-drunk scene. That's one redeeming
moment. Can't immediately remember one in Sevenfold Crown. And yes, you
do need Stardrive/Animals for the sake of completeness. There is no chance
this will become accepted as canon, so that argument doesn't apply. If
you're coming to Deliverance and can wait that long, I could lend you my
tape. Oh yes, the tape does have some short cast interviews at the end,
which I'm about to play to Ellie and Robert. And maybe we ought to be
encouraging the BBC to do more... if they can find a decent script.
Iain also wrote:
>I'm a bit scared to ask where goatees
>come in this hierarchy of repulsiveness.
Ah. You didn't say it was a goatee. Hm.
Harriet
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 21:44:05 -0500
From: Harriet Monkhouse <H_F_Monkhouse@compuserve.com>
To: "Blake's 7 (Lysator)" <BLAKES7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Tyce
Message-ID: <199801192144_MC2-2FE7-8E29@compuserve.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Sue Clerc said:
>Patti, for what it's worth, everyone I know interprets
>the set up the same way--we're supposed to think,
>or at least consider the possibility, that Tyce and
>Sarkoff are lovers until she addresses him as
> "father" near the end.
Oh. I think I was boring, and thought "well, she's probably his daughter".
Harriet
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 19:15:52 -0800
From: Pat Patera <pussnboots@geocities.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Slash debate
Message-ID: <34C416E8.47C7@geocities.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Ovina Maria Feldman wrote:
> re:
> Pat Patera wrote:
> > I think that when it comes to money making endeavors, men are more
> > focused and more motivated...
>
> This is so much BS... Historically, for the last 2500 years or so, men
> have controlled the social and economics factors ...
refer to top statement.
Ann Landers said: "No one can be taken advantage of without their
permission."
yeah yeah, now you're going to say "But what about Margaret Thatcher?"
Never mind the occassional abberation. If women were aggressive /
assertive enough, no one would keep them down. Perhaps surival of the
species requires women to acquiese. To focus on family and tribal
cohesiveness. I don't like this fact; I should prefer that women had
honor and glory and power equal to or greater than that of men - but
thousands of years of civilization support the opposite truth. And
surely anyone in the workplace today sees it all the time. Women who
have everything going for them turn into "something else" when a baby
comes along.
Pat P
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 19:56:02 -0800
From: Pat Patera <pussnboots@geocities.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] New Here with a question.
Message-ID: <34C42052.5974@geocities.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
ShilLance wrote:
> ... it would
> have been more effective seeing the crew fall one at a time over a period of
> time, whether than all together at once.
Perhaps it was Dorians lingering gestalt that ordained they should fall
as one.
> It would have been nice to see more
> interaction between Blake and the Scorpio crew as well.
That's what PGP stories are for.
> I don't know, it just seemed a bit rushed.
I expect it was supposed to feel rushed at the end. Not only a nice
counterpoint to all that slow, cautious creeping about thru the dark,
still forest, but also the reason for rash action. When rushed, one
hasn't time to think, analyze, discard discordant information, and weigh
appropriate response. When rushed, one reacts.
What I wonder is: did the producers have any inkling of what they were
about to set off by the final act of martyrdom? (i.e. a Fandom still
going strong after 20 years) In earlier eps, it's pointed out that the
Federation wanted Blake shipped off - alive - to a prison planet rather
than executed and made "a martyr" of because they knew what sort of a
following a martyr tends to inspire (i.e. Fen flagellating themselves
with hurt / comfort stories).
Pat P
--------------------------------
End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #18
*************************************