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blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 250
Today's Topics:
[B7L] Soolin/sorrowful news
[B7L] Dr. Who/Blake's 7 CD-ROM based fanzine
[B7L] Avon & Anna
Re: [B7L] Soolin
[B7L] PELADON 98 UK Convention update
Re: [B7L] Vila's habits and Soolin
[B7L] Soolin
[B7L] PELADON 98 UK Convention update
[B7L] Vere Lorrimer
[B7L] Soolin (was Soolin/sorrowful news)
RE: [B7L] Soolin (was Soolin/sorrowful news)
[B7L] Vere Lorrimer
Re: [B7L] Soolin (was Soolin/sorrowful news)
RE: [B7L] Soolin (was Soolin/sorrowful news)
[B7L] Inspired critic choice
[B7L] Vere Lorimer's Passing
Re: [B7L] PELADON 98 UK
[B7L] Re: [B/L] Soolin (was Soolin/sorrowful news)
Re: [B7L] Soolin (was Soolin/sorrowful news)
Re: [B7L] PELADON 98 UK Convention update
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 17:08:16 PDT
From: "Joanne MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Soolin/sorrowful news
Message-ID: <19981002000819.18447.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Many thanks to the two Judiths for letting all of us know about the
death of Vere Lorrimer. As Julia said, "Another one I will regret never
having had the chance to meet."
(Nice quote at the end, Julia. <grin> Now, just who are you referring to
there?)
As for Soolin, well, is everyone seated comfortably? Because I find
myself agreeing with Carol. Yes, it is shocking. I suspect that I'm
rather more in sympathy with Vila than Tarrant (you'll have to do better
than this, Carol <grin>). But I think I'd put up with both a lot better
than Soolin.
Do I hear grumbling from the Soolin fans? Sorry. Even with the often
pointed-out evidence of later fourth series episodes giving her more of
a character, I'd put my faith in Jenna before Soolin. Why? Jenna hasn't
given me the impression that she might be, in any way, shape or form, a
potential female version of Avon. I don't think we need anymore of him,
male or female, much as I like him. My brother dislikes Soolin
intensely, and when I asked why I was told that there was room for only
one sarcastic bastard on board the ship (aarrgghh, I bought "Timelash"
last night, and I've just had to correct the effect on my typing!), and
I found myself agreeing with him.
I do see that this would limit the characters to certain stereotypes if
taken to an extreme, but something is missing with Soolin. Yes, I know
that she's supposed to have had a very unhappy childhood and early
adulthood, but I don't suppose that other members of the crew, Vila for
instance, have necessarily done so either. Soolin's raison d'etre is to
be dangerous. That is how we are introduced to her, after all. Anything
else seems to be window dressing. It seems to me that it could be argued
that everyone of the crew, except for Soolin, has a second string to
their bows. Tarrant, for example (this'll make Carol happy), has his
military training as well as his skills in piloting. What else can
Soolin do except shoot people? Think? All of them can do that quite
well, to greater or lesser extents. Make strategic plans? There are
three potential experts in Avon, Dayna and Tarrant as it is. It makes
the poor woman seem a bit limited by comparison.
This is all completely subjective, by the way, and I'm willing to be
convinced otherwise. Please feel free to do so.
Regards
Joanne
(going home to vote, so you can blame that for any tendency to rant)
As a psychologist she was a first-rate teacher of French.
--Josephine Tey, "Miss Pym Disposes".
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 19:29:11 -0500
From: "Reuben Herfindahl" <reuben@reuben.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Dr. Who/Blake's 7 CD-ROM based fanzine
Message-Id: <199810020029.TAA15930@athena.host4u.net>
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I'm checking interest on a CD-ROM based Dr. Who/Blake's 7 Fanzine. It
would present one very in-depth story analysis (one Dr. Who episode and
one Blake's 7) including the making of,
pertinent interview snips, an in-depth review, script snippets, etc..
This would be very much in the style of the in-depth single story
reviews of the Five Doctors in the 5th Doctor handbook or the Ark in the
1st Dr. Handbook.
In addition there would be a news section on both the shows, author
interviews, complete bio's on cast members, a sort of where are they now
and a few selected fan fiction bits.
I would imagine the cost would be around $5, but that could drop
depending on production costs.
The system requirements will be very simple.
A PC or Macintosh computer with a 2x or higher CD-ROM. A 386 DX or
68030 or better processor and at least 4 MB of RAM should run it. The
CD will come with Adobe Acrobat Reader 3, but any PDF reader should be
able to read the document.
Please contact me directly if you think you might be interested or would
like to contribute. I will post more details on Allen Road, in
rec.arts.drwho, rec.arts.drwho.info, space city and Lystator as it
becomes available.
Thanks
Reuben Herfindahl
reuben@reuben.net
P.S. I have decided on a focus story for Blake' 7 thanks to a great
contribution by David McIntee, I'm focusing in on Star One. So if anyone
has any information other than what's commercially available, or any
observations on the serial, please e-mail them to me.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 18:26:16 -0700
From: Pat Patera <pussnboots@geocities.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Avon & Anna
Message-ID: <36142BB8.1B3D@geocities.com>
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I recently lent my B7 tapes to a male friend and found his remarks about
Avon, INTJs and love so nicely written I wanted to share them with the
list. I trust most of you remember the long thread about the 16
personality types that ran last spring. I recall than the majority of
list members typed themselves as INTJs (as I am) Since this type is not
highly emotional, I made the observation that they do not fall in love
easily. Here is this fellow's take on the Avon / Anna situation.
> Of course the female fen loved Rumors
> of Death, it killed any competition for Avon. Just like female fen hated
> nurse chapel on Star Trek, they would have hated a living Anna Grant.
> Is this the episode where I was supposed to gain an understanding of
> INTJ's and love? You told me to watch how Avon handled love. If so I think
> you have missed it. Avon doesn't love easily, he a hard cold man who rarely
> lets anyone in deep, and even more rarely lets them know how deep they have
> gotten, but he loves totally! When he loves, that love supersecedes
> everything and everyone. It is a love to consume mind and soul, until all
> that is left is the love. (Oh I see protests from the back of the room.
> They wonder which tv show I was watching it couldn't be blakes 7, this
> isn't their Avon I describing, well watch me building the case.)
>
> 1. Total love over-rules all other considerations. All other considerations
> are secondary to the considertion for the loved one or what the loved one
> wants.
>
> 2. Total love is not reflected in passion or actions in the heat of the
> moment, but rather on those deliberatly considered. Those into which great
> care and thought have gone into. ('tis a far far better thing I do...ect)
>
> 3. If a person, in deliberate consideration overrides which would be
> normaly considered their primary priorities, for the cause or approval of
> another, then that person can be considered to be in 'total love'.
>
> Avon has over-ruled his primary considerations, repeatedly, for Anna Grant,
> therefore Avon is totaly in love with Anna.
>
> What are Avon's primary objectives?
> 1) Stay alive
> 2) Be secure
> 3) be rich
>
> He has violated 2 of these three, and had no test for the third. (rich)
>
> evidence--
> a) He refused to leave Del Grant to die, staying behind risking death
> himself for no personal gain. When asked why he didn't leave Grant, "Because
> Anna wouldn't want him to." Violation of objective 1
> b) five days of torture to get to Shrinker. Anna is dead (to Avon) this
> can do her no good this is purely to avenge her, and he's violating
> objectives 1 and 2.
> c) Attacking a heavily guarded fortress, most likely in vain, again just
> for justice for Anna. 1&2 again.
>
> Here is a preponderance of evidence to support that Avon was totally in love
> with Anna, a love that lives beyond the grave and becomes a part of Avon
> soul. What can we say against this thesis? He shot her and killed her. Did
> he?
>
> How would we expect Avon to react to someone who plays him for a fool, and
> double crosses him? (my guess is a laser blast thru the head, IF Avon is in
> a good mood)
> He did NOT do this with Anna. No threats, he was stunned, too stunned to
> deal with it. It was eating at his soul, it was tearing him up and would
> continue to tear him up for as long as he lived. Anna knew this, and loved
> him as much as he loved her. (Note in the years in between she had
> swtiched sides, why?) She could not put her love throu that. She knew there
> could be no happy ending. The truth of what she had been would destroy
> Avon. So she drew on him. (Note she was facing his back, she could have
> fired but she didn't) Avon REACTED, he didn't think, in his current state
> he COULDN'T think, he was too messed up in the head. He reacted and he
> fired, as Anna knew he would. She gave up life for Avon's welfare, her love
> was total too. What sad sad story...
>
> Is this what you wanted me to see about INTJ's in love? That they love
> totally and completly. okay :)
I liked his observation that Anna deliberately manipulated Avon into
killing her so he wouldn't find out about her sordid past. Never heard
that one before!
And since it's apparently open season on Tarrant, I'll add this out of
context remark from the fellow's response to his viewing of Season 3
(which he found tough to stay with):
> I made it thru 3rd season Blakes 7, and I have to say there are a
> few episodes in there I liked, but I hated Tarrant and I want him dead,
I couldn't have said it better myself!
(Bringing the Tarrant Nostra after me, chanting: but I hate Puss and I
want her dead...)
bailing out on the next fast ship for Gauda Prime, Pat Patera
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 17:27:56 -0700
From: Pat Patera <pussnboots@geocities.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Soolin
Message-ID: <36141E0C.3FB5@geocities.com>
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SuzanThoms wrote:
> You've touched on two of my favorite B7 subjects...Avon/Soolin.
ooooh! me too!
...
> It was Soolin who always stood up to Avon, and, in my opinion, Avon liked it.
This, and the ongoing discussion of why the female characters got pushed
behind the male "leads" (except for Servalan, of course; *nobody* pushes
around The Supreme Commander!) prompts me to share this remark from a
non-list friend, commenting on a seminar designed to help women achieve
business success:
One of the burning questions at this female success seminar was, "What
exactly
are men good for (at)? Meaning (not what you may or may not be
thinking) just
exactly what traits do they have which we should emulate? Silence!
Bone Dead
Silence... "of the lambs?"
No bleating at all until I finally mentioned that they like to be in
charge
and seem to have no trouble at it. That woke up someone else who
mentioned
something along the same lines. General consensus that they must be
good for
something or other in a business sense since they seem to always be in
charge
of us, but no one could actually finger exactly what that must be.
>
OK, so in B7 te men always seemed to be in charge: but why?
Well, Dayna asked questions all the time (little girl behavior)
Cally was generally passive (didn't act the terrorist role)
Jenna seemed fixiated on looking good for Blake
But Soolin: ah! Knew that being overly chatty diminished the perception
of power. Fixed her hair sensibly so it stayed out of her face.
Practiced one single skill until she was the best at one thing. Didn't
worry about whether other people liked her. In short: exhibited male
behavior. You bet she was had the attitude and ability to challenge
Avon! But I don't thing she would, because her one skill was
sharpshooter, not strategist. Soolin had no illusions about life or
herself; I don't see her having visions of grandeur i.e. thinking she
had the intelligence to keep that most wanted crew out of the clutches
of the Federation.
> After seeing "Gold" I see Avon/Soolin as a wonderful couple. I've been able
> to find some great fanfic on this subject.
yes, but alas, not nearly enough! Those two are so beautiful - human eye
candy - I never tire of watching tem onscreen together. I should love to
see Avon / Soolin in an Avengers sort of Steed / Peel due role! What a
terrorist team they would make!
Dreaming madly of my faves, Pat
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 03:11:04 +0100
From: "John C. Elliott" <John.elliott@ndirect.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] PELADON 98 UK Convention update
Message-Id: <E0zOugX-0002US-00@post.mail.demon.net>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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>From the uk.media.tv.misc newsgroup
Events Inc Presents
PELADON 98
35th Anniversary Dr Who
& 20th Anniversary Blakes 7
Convention
21st & 22nd November 98
Basildon Sports Centre
Nethermayne
Basildon
Essex
( Next to Basildon Hospital )
Special Guests Attending:
Colin Baker - The Doctor.
Sylvester McCoy - The Doctor.
Sophie Aldred - Ace.
Nicola Bryant - Peri.
Sarah Sutton - Nyssa.
Michael Sheard - Lawrence Scarman.
Peter Miles - Nyder.
Sonny Caldinez - The Original Ice Warrior.
Michael Keating - Vila ( Blakes 7 )
Jacqueline Pearce - servalan ( Blakes 7 )
Julian Glover - King Richard )
Declan Mulholland - Till
Will Barton - Midge
Lisa Bowerman - Cat Person
More guest to be confirmed.
This event celebrates perhaps 2 of the best known British scifi TV
series
ever made.
Guests talks, Giant Screen viewing, Displays, Competitions, Chrity
auction
Plus a whole load more.
TICKETS:
Adults: 20 pounds per day or 38 pounds for the weekend
Child: 12 pounds per day or 22 pounds for the weekend
Please make cheques or orders made payable to:
L EUSTACE
Further Information & To Book
By Mail:
PELADON98(W)
87 Moretons Place
Pitsea
Essex
SS13 3NA
UK
Telephone: 01268 581 317
Email: pel@eventsinc.demon.co.uk
Web Site: www.eventsinc.demon.co.uk
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
mailto:john.elliott@ndirect.co.uk
Old age is preferable to the alternative.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 23:13:02 EDT
From: AChevron@aol.com
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila's habits and Soolin
Message-ID: <6065cfa9.361444be@aol.com>
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In a message dated 98-10-01 15:23:50 EDT, you write:
<< Tarrant definitely seemed to believe that Vila was capable as long as Vila
stay sober and focused. He wouldn't have been sending Vila to Keezarn if he
hadn't thought Vila could do the job. And Tarrant was quite comfortable
assigning Vila as his back-up in GAMES. >>
Well, I've got a slightly different take on this one. At the point of
"City", I don't believe that Tarrant really appreciated Vila's talents. It
was simply that Vila was a useful commodity to be traded for something really
useful, and, if he actually carried out the task he'd been hired for, then
maybe all of the hype about Vila had some basis in fact. He certainly didn't
treat Vila like someone who he thought was particularly capable.
By Games, he had seen Vila in action enough to appreciate his skill in his
specialty, but I don't think he was comfortable with leaving him as the
reserve. In the situation, all the choices were poor ones, and I suspect he
figured that a) Avon would come to bail out Vila, and b) Vila would ensure
Avon would rescue them. The strong-arm rescuing, after all, is not Vila's
forte. As it was, the resourceful chap found another way of accomplishing the
mission, so all ended well.
Enough for now; don't want to get the fires too stoked up before E-Con:)
D. Rose
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 01:05:26 EDT
From: SuzanThoms@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Soolin
Message-ID: <627dd0c6.36145f16@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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pussnboots@geocities.com writes:
<< Those two are so beautiful - human eye
candy - I never tire of watching them onscreen together. >>
Hot Dog!!!! I'm delighted to find someone else who adores Avon and Soolin as
a team and a couple.
I just finished a novel called "Checkers" that has a wonderful Avon/Soolin
theme to it. It's got nifty Avon/Servalan action as well. And Avon is
beautiful in it.
Suzanne
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 01:50:21 EDT
From: SuzanThoms@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] PELADON 98 UK Convention update
Message-ID: <28f059ec.3614699d@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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<< Events Inc Presents
PELADON 98
35th Anniversary Dr Who
& 20th Anniversary Blakes 7
Convention
21st & 22nd November 98 >>
Does anyone know if there is a chance Paul Darrow will attend?
Suzanne
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 06:27:34 EDT
From: Mac4781@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se, space-city@world.std.com
Subject: [B7L] Vere Lorrimer
Message-ID: <2d7525ab.3614aa96@aol.com>
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Based on everything I've heard and know about Vere, this is indeed a huge loss
to his family, friends and all whose lives he touched.
Vere impressed me as a man of humor and energy. When I saw him at a con, he
had a bounce to his step, a twinkle in his eyes, and a spryness that many
people half his age lack. I enjoyed hearing stories about how he would get up
close and personal when demonstrating stunts and other physical requirements
of B7 scripts. And there was amusement evident when they talked about Vere's
retirement party, suggesting that he had "retired" before but was never
expected to fully retire. While I regret his loss, there is some consolation
in knowing that he apparently lived life to the fullest.
He will be missed.
Carol Mc
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 07:08:59 EDT
From: Mac4781@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Soolin (was Soolin/sorrowful news)
Message-ID: <1832e441.3614b44b@aol.com>
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Joanne wrote:
> As for Soolin, well, is everyone seated comfortably? Because I find
> myself agreeing with Carol. Yes, it is shocking.
I'm not shocked. I long ago recognized your good taste. <g>
> I suspect that I'm
> rather more in sympathy with Vila than Tarrant (you'll have to do better
> than this, Carol <grin>).
I'm willing to try. :) Let's put it this way, how comfortable would you be
having your life depend on Vila? Do you think you could be assured that he'd
be alert and sober at all times? Or would you be frustrated because you
didn't know when you could depend on him and when he might be less than at his
best?
> But I think I'd put up with both a lot better
> than Soolin.
I hope my post didn't suggest I don't like Soolin. I do like her, very much.
I just didn't see her as a factor in the leadership of our rebel "seven." As
I've said before, I like all the characters. They are each very remarkable
and special individuals who contributed to the fascinating mix of dynamics
that makes the show so special for me. I feel sorry for fans who can't
appreciate each character's contribution; it's like they only half a pie while
I have the whole thing.
> Do I hear grumbling from the Soolin fans? Sorry. Even with the often
> pointed-out evidence of later fourth series episodes giving her more of
> a character, I'd put my faith in Jenna before Soolin. Why? Jenna hasn't
> given me the impression that she might be, in any way, shape or form, a
> potential female version of Avon.
That's an observation that I'd quite agree with (except I didn't mind having a
"female version of Avon"). It provided for more fascinating dynamics. It's
the very fact that Soolin is like Avon, and that Avon would recognize it, that
makes it more unlikely that she'd be his power behind the throne. Avon would
know he couldn't count on her in the way that he could count on "poor, gallant
Tarrant." Tarrant's loyalty bordered on suicidal. Soolin would put her own
welfare first.
I was thinking more about Soolin's role in 4th season last night, and more
about that go-to-Virn-discussion-scene in SAND. I agree that Soolin was very
much like Avon. Actually, she out-Avoned Avon. While Avon liked to think his
own safety had priority over the safety of the team, the only time when he
actually succumbed to self-preservation was when certain death stared him in
the face (ORBIT). (And I think that experience was enough to push him even
further down the altruistic path, IMHO.) Soolin, like Avon, wasn't a team
player by nature. She was also more ruthless than Avon, with good reason.
She'd been forced into a survival role when a mere child. But I also saw
signs of Soolin becoming a member of the team as fourth season progressed.
There appeared to be a closeness developing between Dayna and Soolin. It's
more a hunch than canonical fact, but I get the impression the two of them
(consciously or subconsciously) teamed up to be a stronger force when facing
their male shipmates. That's the additional thought I got when rehashing the
scene from SAND. The two of them are sitting side by side on the couch; that
closeness enhances the "Avon, you have deal with both of us" attitude that
also comes across in BLAKE when they are questioning whether Avon set them up.
I kind of like that image of the two women forming a bond. Other evidence of
Soolin becoming a team player is her role in returning Zeeona to Tarrant. I
would not expect Soolin to naturally play the role of matchmaker (which
provided the inspiration for my Party Piece on Space-City). For her to do
that indicates that she's becoming involved with her shipmates' lives. In the
same episode, her ploy on Betafarl is meant to save Avon as well as herself;
she's showing loyalty to teammates there as well.
I have this image of PGP where the Scorpio crew has survived, and Soolin
decides it is no longer safe to be a part of that team. Except either before
or after the fact of departing, she finds her bonds to the crew are stronger
than she realized. Which may be a bit of wishful sentimental thinking on my
part. As mentioned above, my feelings for her developing team spirit are as
much hunch as canon. Soolin didn't show us much of her inner feelings. But I
do like the image of her becoming more attached to the team than she realized,
and as Dorian said shared danger does tend to bring people together.
> I do see that this would limit the characters to certain stereotypes if
> taken to an extreme, but something is missing with Soolin.
She's definitely very reserved, very private. But I like that.
> Yes, I know
> that she's supposed to have had a very unhappy childhood and early
> adulthood, but I don't suppose that other members of the crew, Vila for
> instance, have necessarily done so either.
This brings up something about Vila that crossed my mind last night (was doing
some B7 pondering while cursing the baseball game, which wasn't going to my
liking <g>). If we are to believe him, he was incarcerated at the tender age
of 14, and it was suggested that wasn't his only time "behind bars." We know
for certain that he was an imprisoned criminal at the beginning of the series.
Someone who had experienced multiple incarcerations had to have a toughness
about him. The image of him as a cowering victim to Tarrant's (or anyone's)
bullying just doesn't fit with a hardened criminal. I can't see that Vila was
all as frightened or bullied as some fans would suggest. I think that was
mostly his avoid work and danger persona (which I can't fault; I like to avoid
danger and work myself). Part of me believes that Vila could have made
mincemeat of Tarrant (in a very sneaky way) if he had been as disturbed by
Tarrant's treatment as fans are disturbed on his behalf.
> Tarrant, for example (this'll make Carol happy), has his
> military training as well as his skills in piloting.
Very, very good, Joanne. Your ascent to Tarrant Nostra status continues. :)
> What else can
> Soolin do except shoot people?
I would count her survival instincts as a second talent. It's what saved all
of their lives in ASSASSIN. And saved her and Avon in WARLORD.
> (going home to vote, so you can blame that for any tendency to rant)
I enjoyed it. You brought up lots of interesting points that forced me to
think about the show in more depth. I can only wish you had to go home to
vote more often. ;-)
Carol Mc
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 14:08:13 +-100
From: Jacqueline Thijsen <jacqueline.thijsen@cmg.nl>
To: "blakes7@lysator.liu.se" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: RE: [B7L] Soolin (was Soolin/sorrowful news)
Message-Id: <01BDEE0E.1BB15040@cmg71700449>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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Carol Mc wrote:
<Someone who had experienced multiple incarcerations had to have a <toughness
<about him. The image of him as a cowering victim to Tarrant's (or <anyone's)
<bullying just doesn't fit with a hardened criminal. I can't see that Vila <was
<all as frightened or bullied as some fans would suggest. I think that <was
<mostly his avoid work and danger persona (which I can't fault; I like to <avoid
<danger and work myself). Part of me believes that Vila could have <made
<mincemeat of Tarrant (in a very sneaky way) if he had been as <disturbed by
<Tarrant's treatment as fans are disturbed on his behalf.
I don't think Vila was very tough at all. Instead, he was very good at finding protectors. At first he teamed up with Gan a lot. This was already a seemingly stable relationship during the second ep. After Gan was gone, he tried to get Avon to take over the role of protector. This may have taken him a while (it sure didn't work in ORBIT), but the fact that he managed it at all with someone as cynical as Avon shows that this was a major talent for Vila. And Avon did on occasion protect Vila against Tarrant.
Jacqueline Thijsen
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 13:19:32 +0100 (BST)
From: "U.M. Mccormack" <umm10@hermes.cam.ac.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
cc: space-city@world.std.com
Subject: [B7L] Vere Lorrimer
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.95q.981002124106.17255B-100000@red.csi.cam.ac.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
How extremely sad I am to hear the news about Vere Lorrimer. I'd been lucky
enough to meet him on a couple of occasions around the period he directed the
season of plays in Worthing with PD, MK and JLP. The Connaught Theatre, where
the plays were being staged, held an open day prior to the season of plays
to promote them with Vere, Paul and Michael in attendance. I went over from
Cambridge with my friend Fiona after we'd seen this advertized in, I think,
the Horizon newsletter. Paul and Michael were much in demand, and we
managed to get a couple of snaps and exchange a few words. Then Fiona
pointed out a silver-haired gentleman who was sitting in one of the rows
of seats: 'I'm sure that's Vere Lorrimer!' she said, tho' the photo in
Tony Attwood's programme guide was all we had to go on!
Eventually we screwed up enough courage to go and say 'hello': indeed it
was Vere, and he was absolutely charming. We sat and chatted for a good
half-hour, and then he was very amenable to having us take photos: in
fact, he took great pains to make sure that the shots would come out, and
insisted that we took shots of us all with and without glasses in case
there was any lens-flare to spoil the picture!
The next time that we met was again in Worthing, when Fiona and I went
with another friend (Andrew) to see one of the plays Vere had produced:
'Dial M for Murder', with Paul, Michael and Janet Lees Price (and great
fun it was too - we only just stopped short of booing at a pricelessly
villainous Paul every time he appeared on stage!) We had written to Vere
in advance to arrange to meet him, as Andrew was then in the process of
writing a book about the show for Virgin (sadly, this didn't materialize).
Vere had agreed to meet and talk to Andrew about the possibility of an
in-depth interview.
I recall that on this trip, Fiona had just had some surgery on her knee,
and was hobbling around on crutches. When we met Vere after the show he
was most concerned about her. Again, he was charming, humorous, courteous
and entertaining. We fixed a date to meet him again, and then had to dash
off for a train. Vere was horrified at the thought of Fiona hobbling off
for a taxi, and insisted on driving us to the station. We hopped into his
little car, and he fussed around Fiona, making sure she was comfortable.
As we were driving along, he asked her to get out his cigars from the
glove compartment, and puffed away at them. It was only after he had
parked, helped Fiona out, and sent us on our way that Fiona was able to
tell us that the cigars were embossed in italic script with 'Vere'! True
showmanship!
Andrew and I went down to Vere's flat in London to interview him about his
experiences on B7. As I recall, the walls were covered with snaps of the
great and good from the stage and screen, all signed with love to Vere. It
was during this interview that I got a real understanding of the breadth
of Vere's experience as a director. I hadn't understood just how far back
and comprehensively his career had stretched, beginning in the theatre
and spanning the start of television in the UK. He was very proud to have
been the first director on shows such as 'The Sooty Show' and 'This is
Your Life'.
His stories about Blake's 7 showed how much joy he had got working on the
programme. He recalled with glee how he had pulled off an extremely
difficult piece of back-projected filming on 'Cygnus Alpha' whilst the
rest of the crew were shaking their heads and muttering, 'You'll never
manage it...' He explained about his planned ideas for a sung theme for
season 4, and played us the recording he had made of the rearranged theme
tune - and sung the words for us as we listened! Everything he said and
described was full of enthusiasm and energy, and fondness for a time when
he had clearly had enormous fun.
I hope people haven't minded these extensive reminiscences. I only met
Vere on 3 quite brief occasions but he was, quite simply, unforgettable.
Una
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 09:29:36 EDT
From: Mac4781@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Soolin (was Soolin/sorrowful news)
Message-ID: <d14789fd.3614d540@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Jacqueline Thijsen wrote:
> I don't think Vila was very tough at all. Instead, he was very good at
> finding protectors.
I can understand that view. I can even accept it as the real Vila at times.
But part of me keeps seeing other sides of Vila that don't fit that mold.
He's a very intelligent and capable man (as shown by his reaction to
Liberator's falling apart in TERMINAL and that he gets Orac off the ship in
the same episode; also, his dealings with Bayban and getting the crystals in
CITY; and his saving the ship when it's being attacked in VOLCANO, etc.).
He's also a shrewd man. Besides the relevant examples above, we saw how he
presented the information on bubble forcewalls in STARDRIVE so that he didn't
have to do the work.
And he's not a total coward by any means. He rescued Tarrant in RESCUE. Took
on Muller to save Tarrant in HEADHUNTER. Took out Arlen in BLAKE.
I can't help but feel there has to be an underlying toughness there to explain
all of the above.
> At first he teamed up with Gan a lot. This was already a
> seemingly stable relationship during the second ep.
He did do that, but I saw it more as happening after Vila sussed out the
situation and decided that was the best option for him at the time. If there
hadn't been a Gan available, I see him as capable of taking a different,
tougher tact to survive. His behavior at the beginning of SPACEFALL isn't
someone desperate to find a protector. It's more on the order of someone
evaluating his fellow prisoners and deciding how he can make life as easy as
possible for himself. He stole Blake's watch. He mouths off about Avon.
This isn't someone who is hiding in a corner and hoping not to be noticed.
It's someone who is comfortable in a cell full of criminals.
> After Gan was gone, he
> tried to get Avon to take over the role of protector. This may have taken
him
> a while (it sure didn't work in ORBIT), but the fact that he managed it at
> all with someone as cynical as Avon shows that this was a major talent for
> Vila. And Avon did on occasion protect Vila against Tarrant.
When did Avon protect Vila against Tarrant? Scolding Tarrant after Vila had
already gone to Keezarn wasn't offering much protection. And Vila apparently
believed Tarrant when Tarrant suggested the others would allow him to toss
Vila off the ship. I didn't see Vila regarding Avon as a protector in CITY,
or in any other episode. It was more that he believed that if he stuck close
to Avon he would be safe, because Avon's primary focus was keeping himself
safe.
More often than not, Tarrant and Avon were in complete accord about sending
Vila off to do work: sending him to check out the situation outside Liberator
in DAWN, using him as bait in STARDRIVE, sending him off to clean the
glycolene tanks in ANIMALS.
Other times, Avon was as insistent as Tarrant was in City about forcing Vila
into situations Vila would have preferred to have avoided: accompany Avon to
the floating tomb in SARCOPHAGUS, going with Avon on the shuttle to Malodaar.
Carol Mc
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 14:43:25 +0100 (BST)
From: mjsmith@tcd.ie (Murray)
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: RE: [B7L] Soolin (was Soolin/sorrowful news)
Message-Id: <199810021343.OAA27268@dux1.tcd.ie>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Jacqueline Thijsen wrote that 'Avon did on occasion protect Villa
against Tarrant'. She is quite right; the most notable occasions took place
in 'City at the Edge of the World', when Avon told Tarrant that 'We can
easily replace a pilot, but a talented thief is rare'. Later, when Tarrant
accused Avon of despising Villa, Avon agreed, but pointed out that, unlike
the former, 'at least I'm consistent about it. I know his value to us, just
as he knows mine'.
Murray Smith
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 15:02:23 +0100 (BST)
From: Iain Coleman <ijc@mail.nerc-bas.ac.uk>
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Inspired critic choice
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.96.981002145832.9414C-100000@bsauasc>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
This month's SFX magazine has a review of the rereleased B7 tape 8
(Shadow / Weapon). The reviewer is Chris Boucher. It's quite interesting -
do have a surreptitious read in the newsagent's.
Iain
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 09:32:08 -0600
From: CHERYL_MARKS@HP-LakeStevens-om2.om.hp.com
TO: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Vere Lorimer's Passing
Message-Id: <H00008030debe6b2@MHS>
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--openmail-part-0f9302d0-00000001
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Two questions:
1. Does anyone have an address for Vere's family? I'd like to send
a card of condolence.
2. I noticed that Vere directed Tenko. I think I saw the series, about
women in a Japanese concentration camp during WWII. Did he direct
the whole series (13 weeks?) or an episode. Do you know which?
Also sadden that I never had the fortune to meet the man and thank him.
Cheryl
********************************************************************************
*
* Cheryl Marks Email: cheryl_marks@hp.com
* "Never argue with a computer" -- Blake's 7
********************************************************************************
**
--openmail-part-0f9302d0-00000001--
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 16:17:01 +0100
From: JMR <jager@clara.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] PELADON 98 UK
Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19981002161701.006c530c@clara.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 01:50 02/10/98 EDT, SuzanThoms@aol.com wrote:
>
><< Events Inc Presents
> PELADON 98
> 35th Anniversary Dr Who
>& 20th Anniversary Blakes 7
>Convention
> 21st & 22nd November 98 >>
>
>Does anyone know if there is a chance Paul Darrow will attend?
>
>Suzanne
>
>
>
Personally, I would think this extremely unlikely, but the "Avon" club
should be able to tell you. Oh, and I hear that Michael Keating definitely
isn't going, as he's busy that weekend, and therefore unable to attend.
Judith
J.M. Rolls
jager@clara.net
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 16:58:09 +0100
From: "Alison Page" <alison@alisonpage.demon.co.uk>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Re: [B/L] Soolin (was Soolin/sorrowful news)
Message-Id: <E0zP7cp-0002Iq-00@post.mail.demon.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Jacqueline Thijsen wrote:
>
> > I don't think Vila was very tough at all. Instead, he was very good at
> > finding protectors.
Carol Mc wrote ;
> I can understand that view. I can even accept it as the real Vila at
times.
> But part of me keeps seeing other sides of Vila that don't fit that mold.
<snip bags of interesting stuff>
Oh yes, I want to keep this thread going. Lots of lovely chat about Vila.
I like this quote - which is actually about Zaphod Beeblebrox - but I think
applies quite nicely out of context to Vila. I hope I haven't done this one
before.
'.. <difficult to> distinguish between him being stupid just to get people
off their guard, pretending to be stupid just because he couldn't be
bothered to think and wanted someone else to do it for him, pretending to
be outrageously stupid to hide the fact that he actually didn't understand
what was going on, and really being genuinely stupid.'
That's my boy.
Alison
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 12:50:06 EDT
From: Mac4781@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Soolin (was Soolin/sorrowful news)
Message-ID: <8cbf8bc4.3615043e@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Murray wrote:
> Jacqueline Thijsen wrote that 'Avon did on occasion protect Villa
> against Tarrant'. She is quite right; the most notable occasions took place
> in 'City at the Edge of the World',
What were the less notable occasions when Avon protected Vila from Tarrant?
I'd appreciate the canonical references.
As I've already said, Avon's protection of Vila in CITY leaves a lot to be
desired. His after-the-fact scolding of Tarrant comes across more as "this is
my thief to abuse; you leave him alone." And Vila's behavior corroborates
that he didn't look on Avon as his protector. He didn't run to Avon for
protection when Tarrant was telling him he had to go to Keezarn.
Carol Mc
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 08:11:15 +0100
From: Julia Jones <Julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] PELADON 98 UK Convention update
Message-ID: <Kx$l0EATyHF2Ew7I@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <28f059ec.3614699d@aol.com>, SuzanThoms@aol.com writes
>
><< Events Inc Presents
> PELADON 98
> 35th Anniversary Dr Who
>& 20th Anniversary Blakes 7
>Convention
> 21st & 22nd November 98 >>
>
>Does anyone know if there is a chance Paul Darrow will attend?
>
Possibly more to the point, going on past experience of Events Inc
events - does anyone know if the "confirmed" guests really are going to
attend?
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
--------------------------------
End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #250
**************************************