From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V98 #307 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: <blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se> archive/volume98/307 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 307 Today's Topics: [B7L] Servalan tape [B7L] Cybercon Update: Writers Wanted! [B7L] Horizon Newsflash - "Over The Moon" Re: [B7L] A New Character Re: [B7L] A New Character Re: Fwd: [B7L] A New Character [B7L] Avon the genius? Re: [B7L] Avon the genius? [B7L] Travis has three faces Re: [B7L] A New Character Re: [B7L] Sula, Servalan, Augustus and cornflakes ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 10:45:33 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk> To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: [B7L] Servalan tape Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-1212094533-06cRr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII John Ainsworth's new address is 5C Peabody Estate, Lillie Road, Fulham, London, SW6 1UL, though he says mail sent to the old address will still reach him. He says he has been pretty slow at mailing things out due to work, but hopes things will improve a lot from January onwards as he's simplifying his workload. He also says that Australians wanting a copy of the Servalan tape can mail him a sachet of Bank tobbaco in trade (yes, he is serious). He doesn't agent the tapes through anyone else. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 21:26:24 +0000 From: JMR <jager@clara.net> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Cybercon Update: Writers Wanted! Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19981212212624.008a6ba0@mail.clara.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Anyone possibly interested in this? Judith >-----Original Message----- >From: Alison Hopkins <fn62@dial.pipex.com> >Newsgroups: uk.media.tv.sf.startrek >Date: 11 December 1998 22:40 >Subject: Cybercon update; writers wanted! > > >>A bit more on CyberCon, which will have an open web site on Tuesday, ONLY! >> >>Ali >> >> >><<<<<On Tuesday the 15th of December 1998, the Star Trek: Insurrection >>Cyber Con '98 goes live on the internet, across the globe. The highlight >>of the Cyber Con will be the chance to enter a competition to write a >>Star Trek script with the assistance of several renowned authors from >>the science fiction and fantasy world. They are: >> >>Diane Duane, a Campbell Award nominee with 19 acclaimed science fiction >>and fantasy novels to her credit, including the 'Door Into....' series, >>the 'Wizard' series, several Spiderman novels and an X-Men novel. Diane >>has written several Star Trek novels, including 'Spock's World', which >>topped the New York Bestseller List. She also co-wrote a Star Trek: The >>Next Generation script 'Where No One Has Gone Before'. >> >>Peter Morwood is a science fiction and fantasy novelist with more than a >>dozen novels to his credit, including the popular 'Alban' series which >>began with 'The Horse Lord', its prequel series, 'The Clan Wars', >>a series of fantasy novels set in old Russia, and a Star Trek novel >>'Rules of Engagement'. He has also co-authored several other Star Trek >>novels with his wife, Diane Duane. >> >>Warren James is a rocket scientist who has worked on the Freedom Space >>Station, and is currently designing methods for increasing payloads on >>space ships. His first professional publication was the >>short story 'Slowboat Nightmare' which has just been published in Larry >>Niven's 'Man-Kzin Wars VIII'. >> >>The script has five major elements, which will be taken from competition >>entries. The five elements are: >> >>1) Create a location in space / time for the new episode >>2) Create a new enemy / alien species >>3) Create the technology structure for the species, inc. transportation >>/ weapons >>4) Create a new crew member for the Enterprise >>5) How will they interact with each other (i.e. alien species vs. >>Enterprise etc.) >> >>A storyboard artist will also be at the Cyber Con, drawing up the >>concepts involved in the script. >> >>The authors will select winning entries to be used, one from each >>element. All 5 winners will receive exclusive Star Trek: Insurrection >>prizes. One overall winner will be selected randomly from the five >>element winners to become the proud owner of the storyboards, >>autographed by all present. >> >>There will also be live chat and streaming video throughout the day from >>the Cyber Con, with the chance to chat with the authors. Parts of the >>script and storyboards will be uploaded to the Cyber Con web site >>regularly, and live chat and pictures will be coming from the premiere >>party in the evening. >> >>ENGAGE TO CYBER CON >> >>WWW.STARFLEET.CO.UK>>>>> J.M. Rolls jager@clara.net ---------------- Steedophilia: The John Steed Website <http://home.clara.net/jager/> ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 21:24:01 +0000 From: JMR <jager@clara.net> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Horizon Newsflash - "Over The Moon" Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19981212212401.0082d970@mail.clara.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Saturday 12th December 1998 News from HORIZON about the broadcast schedule for BBC Choice (Digital) of OVER THE MOON is that it is currently set for 1st January 1999 (New Year's Day) at 3pm. The Blake's 7 episode & interviews are currently scheduled for the third hour, so that takes it to approximately 6pm. These times are subject to change so we'll keep you posted. See the Horizon Club website at <http://www.horizon.org.uk> J.M. Rolls jager@clara.net ---------------- Steedophilia: The John Steed Website <http://home.clara.net/jager/> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 08:33:59 -0800 From: Pat Patera <pussnboots@geocities.com> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] A New Character Message-ID: <36714977.31EA@geocities.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alison Page wrote: > If you take the 'relativist' position, that good and bad are relative to a > society's mores, then you have nowhere to stand 'outside' your own society > to criticise it. For example - why did the witch burning stop? because > something in the people of those ages revolted against it. They changed the > mores, by reference to something (such as reason and compassion) which was > outside of conventional morality. In other words absolute rather than > relative. Societal changes are generally caused by economic, rather than moralistic changes. The witch hunts in Europe during the 16th (?) century were not religious, but economic. The accusser got to keep all the worldly wealth of the woman killed. Some men were known to have accused (and profited from) the deaths and subsequent "estate inheritances" of up to 200 women. What a get-rich scam! I don't know why the slaughter stopped, but I would guess that either the economy improved so that there were other (easier?) ways to make money. I read that over one million women were murdered as witches during this purge, so perhaps they ran short of the commodity being "traded" i.e. women. The witch market collapsed. The abolition of slavery in the U.S. was not due so much to the Yankees abohorance of slavery as to the need for unskilled factory workers in the Northern states. The "underground railroad" delivered freed slaves to factory jobs in northern cities. The invention of the cotton gin sealed the fate of slavery by replacing labor-intensive cotton picking (picking the seeds out of the balls) by hand with a machine. The more recent "women's liberation" movement in the U.S. was the result of economic forces - as the post-war boom economy softened, women's wages were needed to maintain the standard of livng that a husband's wage alone provided in the go-go 50s. And, of course, invention of "the pill" helped keep them in the workforce. Space shows - like Blakes 7 and Trek - often focus on moralistic reasons for action and downfall because it has more dramatic interest than down 'n dirty economics. But in fiction, as in life, the age-old adage should apply: "Follow the Money." Pat P ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 08:20:39 -0800 From: Pat Patera <pussnboots@geocities.com> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] A New Character Message-ID: <36714657.14F@geocities.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Una McCormack wrote: > I think it's (probably) meaningless to talk about vegetarianism in a 12th > century context ... It's my understanding that vegetarianism was the norm among people for centuries because they were too poor to have meat. Animals eat great amounts of food that could be consumed by poor peasants directly. In poor countries like China (rice) India (lentils) Africa (cassava) people still eat a largely vegetarian diet. And *not* for moral reasons. > Vegetarianism is a moral stance taken these days in > a situation of relative wealth ... Just so. Only when people can afford to eat meat can they choose not to. Future societies who are purported to eat vat grown protein (Bujold's Vorkosigan series) are often portrayed as doing so for reasons of economy of production on harsh worlds where it would be impossible to grow animals - again, due to lack of arable land in proportion to human populations. Blakes 7 is curious in that we almost never see anyone eating and know little about what they eat. Altho we well know what they drink! :-) Pat P ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 08:13:59 -0800 From: Pat Patera <pussnboots@geocities.com> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: Fwd: [B7L] A New Character Message-ID: <367144C7.2066@geocities.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit LordRab@aol.com wrote: > Which happily reminds me of another favorite Avon retort (to Vila): > "It's not your right to an opinion that I object to, it's the fact that you > think we are all entitled to your opinion that is irritating" hahaha. Reminds me of a favorite: "Nobody appreciates the value of good advice so much as the one who gives it." This particularly applies to Blake having to endure Avon's supercillious advice. Pat P ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 20:54:36 PST From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Avon the genius? Message-ID: <19981213045438.18003.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Can a rather new and shy list member join in here? Carol Mc wrote : <I consider the creative part to be the main determination of genius.> I can accept this definition in the artistic/literary field, maybe even in pure science (with some reservations - pure mathematics, anyone?) but I think there are many fields where it’s too narrow and room has to be allowed for other definitions, like interpretive or analytical. I also got out my dictionaries (I’m not trying to play duelling dictionaries, truly - but I do love reading them!) and got a variety of definitions, of which my preferred (Oxford ) is ‘exceptionally great intellectual *or* creative ability'; any great natural ability.’ Ensor, Muller, Plaxton etc had genius within their own specialised fields - a narrow creative genius. Avon’s brilliance did not have the same depth, but a greater range, involving an amazing breadth of knowledge and comprehensive skill (let’s face it, no matter what unheard-of technology the Federation, Blake’s plans, Providence and the scriptwriters could throw at him, he usually knew it inside out in an astoundingly short time.) So I would accept that Avon had, not creative, but analytical genius. And anyway, most of his creative energies went first into crime, then into survival, sharpening his tongue, and his favourite hobby of annoying the hell out of everyone, especially Blake. At which no one can deny he *was* a genius. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 23:29:31 +1100 From: "Christine Lacey" <eshva@magna.com.au> To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se> Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon the genius? Message-Id: <199812131228.XAA01476@s3000-01.magna.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all This is rather a massive post - which is quite appropriate since it's about Avon's genius :) I can't resist - this is one topic guaranteed to make me delurk. Although there's probably no need, since Deborah and Sally <wave> have already written excellent defences of Avon's genius. Anyway, Deborah wrote > > As for > > creativeness, I still hold that the sensor deflector is indeed an example > of creativeness. To which Carol replied > This doesn't work for me. First because it's more adapting a known idea to a > new situation (not creative enough). And second because other minds were > developing the same technology at the same time. For me, a genius has to > conceive of something that is uniquely innovative: Orac, the stardrive, the > Muller android. I think Avon would be the first to admit that he wasn't in > that category. Well, I agree that the detector shield wasn't as creative as something like Orac, but it was a genuinely new innovation, even if the Federation did come up with their own version soon after. Surely it's not uncommon for two or more people to come up with much the same idea at around the same time, independently? (Charles Darwin and Alfred Russell spring to mind). I don't think this should devalue their innovation. In a way, the detector shield demonstrates Avon's particular kind of creativity - namely that it is extremely practical - being invisible to detectors has got to be handy when you're a fugitive And unlike Muller or Ensor, Avon seems to have a good grasp of exactly how his invention can be used and by whom. Muller managed to get killed by his creation (perhaps because he didn't realise its potential). And I got the impression that Ensor didn't really utilise Orac to its full capacity. He struck me as the kind of guy who would invent the universe's spiffiest computer and then use it to feed his goldfish :) Anyway, I agree that Avon wasn't a genius in the same way as Muller or Ensor, but I don't think the definition of genius needs to be quite so narrow. Deborah: > > I also hold that the main reason we don't see Avon designing original > > things is that he lacks the time and facilities. Carol: > Avon wasn't a spring chicken when he boarded Liberator. He had plenty of time > to establish creative credentials before then. The Federation didn't appear > to be shy about setting up their creative geniuses with proper facilities > (Plaxton, for one example). I agree with Deborah. I don't think that Avon did have plenty of opportunity earlier to demonstrate his creativity. I rather like the fanfic notion that Avon got assigned to the Aquitar project, (had no choice in it), and had a lot of his time wasted on something that ultimately failed. And I suspect the Federation might not have supplied Avon with proper facilities etc because a) they thought he was political and b) even if he wasn't actually involved with rebels, he had enough pragmatic cleverness to be dangerous, unlike the ivory tower types who would putter along designing stardrives for anyone who paid the bills. And later, on Liberator and Scorpio, he didn't get all that much chance to do his own thing. It seemed to be always "Avon, fix this", "Avon, research that", "Avon, come down to this planet to blow something up." And then he got stuck with the job of leader and freedom fighter, which would also have cut into his research time. Before I get off the topic of creativity - what about the sopron in "Harvest of Kairos"? (ridiculous spider, dopey Servalan and Jarvik stuff, lovely Avon). I thought Avon displayed good solid scientific curiosity in this ep - he finds something interesting and prods at it til he works it out. And in very Avon fashion, turns the knowledge into a useful invention that saves their bacon. A very practical sort of genius in my view. On definitions, I agree with Sally, that it's silly to wave our dictionaries at each other (especially since mine is a dog-eared Oxford paperback), but mine doesn't actually mention creativity - it just says "exceptionally great mental ability, or any great natural ability". This seems to accord with my lay usage of the term - if someone has a particularly outstanding ability, I might call them eg. a musical genius, specifying what the ability was. If I just used the term 'genius', I'd probably mean a really outstandingly brainy person. Sally wrote <<Ensor, Muller, Plaxton etc had genius within their own specialised fields - a narrow creative genius. Avon's brilliance did not have the same depth, but a greater range, involving an amazing breadth of knowledge and comprehensive skill (let's face it, no matter what unheard-of technology the Federation, Blake's plans, Providence and the scriptwriters could throw at him, he usually knew it inside out in an astoundingly short time.) So I would accept that Avon had, not creative, but analytical genius.>> I totally agree - the really impressive thing about Avon's intelligence is how broad and adaptable it is. He can mess with Liberator's computers (Breakdown), do the complicated repairs (Redemption), fly the ship (Time Squad, Traitor), open locks (Bounty & Aftermath), deactivate bombs (Countdown), decode codes (Countdown), reprogram robots (Project Avalon), get an antiquated technology working again (Deliverance), alter the function of the teleport (Trial) etc. etc And he wasn't just intelligent about gadgets - he also seemed to have quite a good grasp of 'political' type things. My favourite example is in 'Shadow' - he is suspicious of the ease with which they found the source of shadow, when supposedly the Federation couldn't. I think he probably worked out that the Federation were allied with the Terra Nostra - why else search the guard? To me this shows an impressive degree of analytical ability, unconnected with computers etc. Carol: > Per definition two, many of them qualify. Avon is gifted with computers. > Blake with leadership. Vila with locks. Jenna and Tarrant at piloting. Etc. I think the difference with Avon is essentially his ability to learn new things and to adapt his knowledge to gadgetry of all kinds (as well as an impressive degree of practical creativity). I mean Tarrant knows spacecraft and Vila knows locks, but Avon seems to have a working knowledge of everything. Carol also wrote > Per definition one genius, the crew member I think comes closest is Dayna, > with her ability to develop innovative weaponry. It would depend on how > innovative her inventions really were. It's interesting that Dayna should be the nearest to a genius if the creativity definition is used. When I think of Dayna and Soolin, for instance, I would tend to say Soolin was the more intelligent of the two (based mainly on 'Assasin'). So perhaps 'genius' in the creativity sense isn't connected to 'intelligence' as such. Or, more likely, I suspect that I tend to equate cynicism with intelligence (which may not be terribly valid). Which would also contribute to my conviction that Avon is highly intelligent, since he such a super-cynic. Christine (unashamed Avon fan) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 23:30:00 +1030 From: "Dunne, Martin Lydon - DUNML001" <DUNML001@students.unisa.edu.au> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Travis has three faces Message-ID: <AE6AF4DBBDA8D111B1D200AA00DD6129015E92AA@EXSTUDENT4.Magill.UniSA.Edu.Au> Content-Type: text/plain 1980 Blake's 7 annual, published by IPC. Why is Travis a guy with a goatee and no obvious cybernetic attachments? Allow me to suggest a couple of explanations- This was printed for Christmas 1979, and so both seasons with Travis had screened. Having been played by both Stephen Greif and Brian Croucher, this already makes such a depiction somewhat shaky. Add to this Travis having been killed off at Star One (or at least needing quite an escape story written for him). Perhaps the cybernetics were deemed too horrific to draw in a children's publication. Or they don't draw well. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 10:50:35 EST From: AChevron@aol.com To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] A New Character Message-ID: <200ec82a.3673e24b@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/12/98 5:54:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, pussnboots@geocities.com writes: << I don't know why the slaughter stopped, but I would guess that either the economy improved so that there were other (easier?) ways to make money. I read that over one million women were murdered as witches during this purge, so perhaps they ran short of the commodity being "traded" i.e. women. The witch market collapsed. >> I think the reason the slaughter collapsed was that the insanity had gotten out of control. In economic terms, it became too risky to indulge in as the accusations began to spread to the point where the profiters became victims of their own scam. I also don't think that you can look at any issue in purely economic terms. Human life is too complicated for that. World War 2 is an example. to argue that it was fought for purely economic reasons just doesn't work. Or the Civil War, for that matter. To say that thousands of Southerners died just so a relatively small percent of Southerners could maintain slaves is absurd. Many men fought for many reasons, North and South. But as your post pointed out, the economic causes of conflict and actions is a major reason people do immoral things, and shouldn't be overlooked when evaluating another's actions. D. Rose ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 09:34:14 -0800 From: Pat Patera <pussnboots@geocities.com> To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Sula, Servalan, Augustus and cornflakes Message-ID: <3673FA96.1010@geocities.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rob Clother wrote: > After all, > it's Blake the troopers are after at the very end: bagging Avon and his > crew was like getting a freebie out of a cornflakes packet. Blurb on Krunchies Kornpops package: Hey Kids! Get your *free* Scorpio spaceship. Inside every box of Krunchies Kornpops! Collect several, because accidents do happen: Asteroids! Alien invasions! Ultraworlds! Clouds of caustic glop! Space Rats! Blockades! Now collect the full set of action figures. Just send one Krunchies boxtop plus 25 cents for each figure (approximate size: 2" tall). Collect the whole set! Mad Avon, Toothy Tarrant, Sexy Soolin, Daring Dayna and Controlled substance abusing Vila. New! build your own Orac. Easy to assemble model kit: just $4.95 plus 7 Krunchies boxtops. Get one today. Break the banking system tomorrow. Budding commercial copywriter, Pat P -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #307 **************************************