From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se
Subject: blakes7-d Digest V98 #34
X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se
X-Mailing-List: <blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se> archive/volume98/34
Precedence: list
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------"
To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se
Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
------------------------------
Content-Type: text/plain
blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 34
Today's Topics:
Re: [B7L] Unsubscribing
[B7L] Absence
Re: [B7L] Ragnorok (was B5 & B7)
Re: [B7L] Digest problems; nerds
Re: [B7L] Ragnorok (was B5 & B7)
[B7L] The Federation's Constitution
Re: b7spin: Re: [B7L] Re: Thomas Covenant
[B7L] SC: Radio Times letters
Re:[B7L]UK Mag Watch
Re: [B7L] Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs
[B7L] b7 ads
Re: [B7L] more skyhooks
Re: [B7L] Ian McDonald
Re: [B7L] Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs
Re: [B7L] Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs
Re: [B7L] Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs
Re: [B7L] Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs
[B7L] E-Mail addresses
Re: [B7L] Ragnorok spelling
Re: [B7L] Ragnorok (was B5 & B7)
Re: [B7L] Ad Campaigns...
[B7L] Re: Blake's 7 and Myers Briggs
[B7L] Blake's 7 and Myers-Briggs
[B7L] Blake's 7 FANS & Myers-Briggs
Re: [B7L] Re: Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs
[B7L] Manipulation
Re: Fwd: [B7L] Howdy..Another Houston TX Blake fan here
Re: [B7L] B7 as the Norse gods
Re: [B7L] Re: Cygnus Alpha Cult
Re: [B7L] Ad Campaigns...
[B7L] Swept From the Sea
Re: [B7L] SC: Radio Times letters
[B7L] Help!
------------------------------
Date: 03 Feb 1998 09:53:46 +0100
From: Calle Dybedahl <qdtcall@esavionics.se>
To: Rachel Turner <eturner@cc.curtin.edu.au>
Cc: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Unsubscribing
Message-ID: <is67mxyspx.fsf@godzilla.kiere.ericsson.se>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Rachel Turner <eturner@cc.curtin.edu.au> writes:
> I may be loosing access to this e-mail account soon, how do i get off this
> list?
Instructions:
In order to subscribe to the list in single-mail form, send a mail
with the single word subscribe as the subject to blakes7-request@lysator.liu.se
In order to subscribe to the list in digest form, send a mail with the
single word subscribe as the subject to blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se
In order to unsubscribe, send a mail with the single word unsubscribe
as the subject to the appropriate address (blakes7-request or
blakes7-d-request).
To change from one form to the other, unsubscribe from one and
subscribe to the other.
For the mail to be processed by the automatic server, its subject line
must not start with "Re:". If it does, the server will just pass it on
to the maintainer.
--
Calle Dybedahl, UNIX Sysadmin
qdtcall@esavionics.se http://www.lysator.liu.se/~calle/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 08:52:03 -0800
From: Jackie <jackiew@termlow.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Absence
Message-ID: <34D74B33.71FE@termlow.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Dear All,
Due to a death in the family, I will not be logging on for a little
while, please send no personal messages as they will probably get lost in
the backlog.
Thanks
Jackie
------------------------------
Date: 03 Feb 1998 09:56:41 +0100
From: Calle Dybedahl <qdtcall@esavionics.se>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Ragnorok (was B5 & B7)
Message-ID: <is4t2hysl2.fsf@godzilla.kiere.ericsson.se>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
gwr@easynet.co.uk (Gareth Randall) writes:
> the correct spelling is 'Ragnarok'.
Almost, but not quite :-) It's "Ragnarök" (and the thing between the r
and k at the end is a o-with-dots). "Ragnarok" sounds more like a
silly name for a heavy metal festival or something like that.
--
Calle Dybedahl, UNIX Sysadmin
qdtcall@esavionics.se http://www.lysator.liu.se/~calle/
------------------------------
Date: 03 Feb 1998 10:14:04 +0100
From: Calle Dybedahl <qdtcall@esavionics.se>
To: s.thompson8@genie.geis.com
Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Digest problems; nerds
Message-ID: <is3ei1yrs3.fsf@godzilla.kiere.ericsson.se>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
s.thompson8@genie.geis.com writes:
> Since Calle is away, is there any other digest subscriber who has
> saved them and could forward them to me?
They're all available from the FTP site now.
--
Calle Dybedahl, UNIX Sysadmin
qdtcall@esavionics.se http://www.lysator.liu.se/~calle/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 98 09:24:00 PST
From: "Taylor, Steve [MIS]" <S.Taylor@lmu.ac.uk>
To: blakes7 <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Ragnorok (was B5 & B7)
Message-ID: <34D7537D@courier.lmu.ac.uk>
->gwr@easynet.co.uk (Gareth Randall) writes:
->
->> the correct spelling is 'Ragnarok'.
->
->Almost, but not quite :-) It's "Ragnar=F6k" (and the thing between the r
->and k at the end is a o-with-dots). "Ragnarok" sounds more like a
->silly name for a heavy metal festival or something like that.
->--=20
Those of us with MS****Mail get a VERY interesting spelling of the above:-))
Come the revolution - Bill Gates as a guest in Blake!
SteveT
"As the man throwing rocks at the seabirds said - I hit every one - I left
no tern unstoned"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 21:40:30 +1000
From: Tim Richards & Narrelle Harris <parallax@wire.net.au>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] The Federation's Constitution
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980203214030.007af8c0@wire.net.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 09:16 02/02/98 -0700, The Doctor wrote:
>
>I hate to say this, but look at republics today and
>Servalan; IHMO THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE!
Do you mean republics like Ireland, Germany, France, the USA?
Or monarchies like Saudi Arabia?
:-)
Narrelle
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tim Richards and Narrelle Harris
parallax@wire.net.au http://www.wire.net.au/~parallax
"Look, he's winding up the watch of his wit;
by and by it will strike." - Shakespeare
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 10:43:28 -0000
From: "Jenni-Alison" <jenni-alison@dial.pipex.com>
To: "B7 Spin" <b7spin@metva.com.au>
Cc: "B7 Lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: b7spin: Re: [B7L] Re: Thomas Covenant
Message-Id: <199802031058.LAA20640@samantha.lysator.liu.se>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
----------
> From: Tom Forsyth <Tom.Forsyth@btinternet.com>
> To: B7 Spin <b7spin@metva.com.au>
> Cc: B7 Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
> Subject: b7spin: Re: [B7L] Re: Thomas Covenant
> Date: 03 February 1998 00:39
>
> Oh dear - no no no. I managed to actually finish the first one, and
it was
> so awful. It was even worse than EE "Doc" Smith, and in exactly the
same
> way, which is really quite impressive. Just complete junk. It was
even
> badly written, which at least Smith's books weren't. I'd be willing
to bet
> Elron started writing them when he was ten, judging by the standard
of
> writing. And that one book was longer than most of Smith's
multi-volume
> series put together. Just don't.
I agree with Tom. The writing in Mission Earth series was dire! I
will read absolutely anything at all (I even read Barbara Cartlands
later offerings, well, some of them - they are full of
....pregnant....pauses.....and more full stops (periods) than actual
letters) but I couldn't read these. I struggled up to I think book 6,
and gave in. I didn't care about any of the characters, I didn't find
the plot clever or interesting, and I couldn't be bothered to try any
longer on something which seemed to have no literary merit at all. I
gave them back to my friend (thank god I didn't buy them).
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 10:40:42 +0000
From: Julia Jones <julia.jones@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] SC: Radio Times letters
Message-ID: <wCF8xFAqQv10Ew2Q@jajones.demon.co.uk>
Just bought this week's Radio Times, and as always turned to the letters
page first. Somehow I guessed the identity of the writer complaining
about the lack of Blake in Blake's 7 before I finished reading the
letter...
Well done, Judith, that was a politer complaint about Barry Letts than I
would have managed.
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 12:09:33 GMT
From: "Jane Elizabeth Macdonald" <J.E.Macdonald1@student.derby.ac.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re:[B7L]UK Mag Watch
Message-ID: <2BBFB3C27DA@sdk1.derby.ac.uk>
On 1st Feb, Julie Horner wrote:-
> In the February edition of 'PC Format' there is an interview with Paul
> Darrow. It covers a lot of his current and recent work including
> Sevenfold Crown, 'Guards, guards' and the PC game - The Eye.
>
> I would have missed it as the interview is not publicized on the cover,
> but my husband happens to be a regular reader and pointed it out this
> morning.
Thanks for the information, Julie. I went straight out and bought
the magazine in question. The article was every bit as good as you
said it was.
Cylan
------------------------------
Date: 03 Feb 1998 15:04:19 +0100
From: Calle Dybedahl <qdtcall@esavionics.se>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs
Message-ID: <is1zxkzsws.fsf@godzilla.kiere.ericsson.se>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Lisa Williams <lcw@dallas.net> writes:
> Anyhow, those of you who are looking into this might want to check out his
> site.
Perhaps it would be fun to have a list personality type poll?
/Calle, *strongly* INFP
--
Calle Dybedahl, UNIX Sysadmin
qdtcall@esavionics.se http://www.lysator.liu.se/~calle/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 01:30:59 +1100
From: "Roger The Shrubber" <darrenro@ozonline.com.au>
To: "B7 Main List" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] b7 ads
Message-Id: <199802031404.BAA14373@budapest.ozonline.com.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Perhaps Josette Simon or Glynis could do public health ads
"If you're going to shoot straight, always use a condom"
or selling guns
"It took 3 of us to beat the Federation. Smith & Wesson & me."
Steven Pacey
"If you're concerned about crashing, screw Windows, buy a Macintosh."
Paul D.
"Intel does amazing things to my system"
Jackie P.
" If you're like me, you've had a spot of employee trouble in the past. So
if you want to be tough but fair in business, Acme management training
courses could be just the thing."
Dr Plaxton
"The new Mitsubishi V6 engine. It's not as quick as photon space drive. But
it's pretty close."
Bill G
"Microsoft Teleport Control Software v1.0 - Trust it with your life !"
___________________________________
___________________________________
Darren r
Comments are welcome !
powerplay@cheerful.com
____________________________________
Legal note - This message is void in China, USA, Iran and all other
countries where free speech is prohibited by law.
______________________________________
"The Administration is out to get me"
_______________________________________
"In the end, winning is the only safety"
_________________________________________
"There are times when even confirmed cynics must trust to luck"
________________________________________
Was God an astronaut ?
_________________________________________
http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/2634
Anxiety & Panic
_________________________________________
http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/2634/powerplay.html
Blake's 7 FAQ & other free stuff
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 01:22:59 +1100
From: "Roger The Shrubber" <darrenro@ozonline.com.au>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] more skyhooks
Message-Id: <199802031411.BAA14580@budapest.ozonline.com.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Glad U liked my skyhooks stuff
I DID look at "you just like me cos I'm good in bed" and "smut" but
couldn't do anything with them, perhaps I'll try again soon.
<sig - what sig ?>
------------------------------
Date: 03 Feb 1998 15:26:02 +0100
From: Calle Dybedahl <qdtcall@esavionics.se>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Ian McDonald
Message-ID: <iszpk8ydc5.fsf@godzilla.kiere.ericsson.se>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
STEVE.ROGERSON@MCR1.poptel.org.uk writes:
> Oh I agree. Up till a year ago I hadn't read anything by him,
> but because he's a guest at Eastercon in Manchester this year, I
> decided to give him a try.
If he does a reading session, GO TO IT! When we had him as GoH at
ConFuse in 1992, he read a first draft of short story set in the same
world as "Necroville". It's one of the most entrancing things I've
ever heard. It also made me place an order for "Necroville" over a year
before it was published :-)
> So I read Hearts, Hands & Voices' and Sacrifice of Fools', both were
> excellent, especially Sacrifice. I must try Desolation Road'.
Yes, "Sacrifice" was very nice, one of the better books I read last
year. "Desolation Road" was his debut, so it might be hard to find (I
don't know). Anyway, it's my all-out all-time no-holds-barred
favourite novel. I must've read it about fifteen times by now.
It doesn't have very much at all to do with B7, though. I'm not even
sure if McDonald has ever seen the series.
--
Calle Dybedahl, UNIX Sysadmin
qdtcall@esavionics.se http://www.lysator.liu.se/~calle/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 09:10:05 -0500 (EST)
From: "Katherin M. McArthur" <mcarthur@phoenix.Princeton.EDU>
To: Calle Dybedahl <qdtcall@esavionics.se>
cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95.980203090943.16237A-100000@tucson.princeton.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On 3 Feb 1998, Calle Dybedahl wrote:
> /Calle, *strongly* INFP
INFJ. (And usually a lurker, appropriately enough. <g>)
--Katie
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 11:06:23 -0500
From: DJ Wight <Angnak@compuserve.com>
To: B7Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs
Message-ID: <199802031106_MC2-31BE-D137@compuserve.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Going fast through digest file #33--apologies in advance
for what seems likely to be a long post.
Late Sunday, Feb 1st, Lisa Williams writes:
> DJ Wight wrote:
>> I'm not familiar with the Idealist/Rational/Artisan/Guardian
>> classifications [DJ snips, condensing]
> I hadn't run into that naming convention before, myself, but from the
rest
> of Adam's post I figured it was just a reference to the four temperaments
> -- NF/NT/SP/SJ, respectively.
Adam?
>> Jenna: tentatively ESFP. Could say ISTP, because she's able to step
>> back and play the detached observer, and that's an ISTP quality, but
>> for me, it tends to look learned.
> Hmmm. I see her as more of a T; not strongly polarized, but solidly on
the
> T side of the line. That cool objectivity she displays struck me as quite
> natural, though it might well be a learned survival trait that has become
> second nature. I have a hard time placing her on the E/I scale; maybe a
> little to the I side, but not much, and I wouldn't swear to it. Certainly
> an SP, though.
You're probably right about the T. Looking at this again later
the day I posted, it occurred to me that I could happily have
said ESTP as well. At which point the whole exercise began
to seem a bit problematic. I'd need to look at this again -
probably go back and watch a few episodes - before trying
for a tighter reading.
>>Cally: tentatively INFP. Condensing fast again: "Quiet observers,
>>idealistic, loyal.
> My first guess was INFJ, but thinking about it, I agree that INFP comes
> closer to the way she was throughout most of the series. I think she was
> originally portrayed as more of a J; the INFJs are more goal-oriented,
more
> likely to be activists, as Cally in her guerrilla revolutionary persona.
> Otherwise, the two types are quite similar, and she seems to have drifted
> into the INFP camp pretty quickly.
I think this one could cut either way. I have a lot of trouble with
this distinction, beyond the continuum extremes of J-types who
"tend to live in a planned, orderly way" to a point where
everything's compulsively scheduled down to the second and
woe betide the person who disrupts their world, and P-types who
"tend to live in a flexible, spontaneous way", to a point where one
can't nail them to anything remotely resembling a schedule. This
was described in the course I took that included MBTI, three years
ago, as more a matter of lifestyle choice and circumstances than
the other elements of the indicator.
>> Soolin: ISF/TP.
> I have a hard time seeing Soolin as an F at all, though she
> may well have had much stronger F tendencies when she
> was younger.
Call it an unreasonable reading of potential on my part. :) No prob.
>> INTP = 1-3% of the population, for which the remainder may be
>> thankful!
> Aw, I *like* INTPs.
<chuckle> I am one. Used to work for one, too, which is why it
rather blew my mind when I first ran across an interview with Mary
Ridge, back before I'd seen all of B7 - I was only up to about mid-
second-series, I think - in which she said "by that time, Paul was
the leader." I damn near fell off the couch....
Then, early Monday, Sue Clerc wrote:
> What's an INTJ, the one Avon probably isn't?
Back to references: "Independent, individualistic, single-minded,
and determined individuals who trust their vision of possibilities
regardless of universal scepticism." Visionary builders, architects
of systems, quoting again, "a clear vision of future possibilities and
the organization and drive to implement their ideas. ... INTJs see
things from a global perspective and quickly relate new
information to overall patterns. They trust their insightful connections
regardless of established authority or popular opinions. Dull routine
smothers their creativity. ... They assess everything with a critical
eye and are tough and decisive when the situation calls for toughness
...clear and concise, rational, detached, and objectivly critical ...
*excellent long-range planners and often rise to positions of
leadership in groups or organizations* (Asterisks mine.) ...INTJs
usually don't directly express their most valued and valuable part---
their creative insights. Instead, they translate them into logical plans
and decisions. Because of this, others sometimes experience
INTJs as intractable, much to the surprise of the INTJ, who is
very willing to change an opinion when new evidence emerges.
They present a calm, decisive, and assured face to the world, though
they often find it difficult to engage in social conversation. Others
usually see INTJs as private, reserved, hard to know, even aloof."
When frustrated, they tend to become aloof and abrupt, "not giving
enough information about their internal processing, critical,
single-minded and unyielding." No mention in any of my
(admittedly limited) references, of any particular tendencies
to cynicism, sarcasm, etc., or those emotional outbursts under
stress, which for me are what put Avon solidly in the INTP type.
And Adam L. Fuller replied, about the same time,
> I have given these characters A LOT of thought for several years.
:) Excellent.... I'm looking forward to hearing more!
> The problem that I have discovered with Myers-Briggs is that
> most people just don't understand the distinction of types very well.
> Especially people who are SP themselves, often believe that they are N
> because they think it's some added special ability and so they want to
> believe that they are N for status and ego reasons. The N function is
> actually an extremely rare function and people who are N are quite
lacking
> in the sensory function. (This leaves Dayna out of it) Most of us are
> clutzes and have our head in the clouds. We sometimes don't see something
> if it's staring at us in the face. I've found some of the most sensory
people
> out there thinking that they are intuitives. Go figure!
I've run into this apparent sense of some characteristics being more
desirable/higher status than others, as well, and this seldom gets
dealt with properly. (Re Dayna, useful observation.) Intuition does
seem to have an aura of 'special ability' around it, which is absurd, when
yes,
> Most of us are clutzes and have our head in the clouds.
> We sometimes don't see something if it's staring at us in the face.
LOL! Been there, done that. Which is why we *need* strong S-types
around to clip us hard upside the ear on a regular basis, and tell us
bluntly to pay attention to the evidence in front of us, no more and no
less.
> Let me also say that the SJ is the most common type,
> [ long, fascinating bit snipped to condense ] Of course, none
> of the Blake's 7 characters are combinations. That is why these
> characters are so realistic.)
This is fascinating, keep going, keep going.
> Many people who watch Blake's 7 criticize Blake's captaining
> abilities.
Really? Not to question the observation, just hadn't thought
about what he does from this perspective.
> They say that he is a "stumble bumb" leader, who
> makes rash decisions and then sees where they will lead him.
> [ another snip to condense] Idealists are supposed to be the least
> of the four temperaments that are likely to lead well. The unique
> aspect of Blake's 7 is that Terry Nation created for the first time a
> crew led by an idealist. Usually, spaceship captains on science-
> fiction sagas are artisans, guardians, or rationals. Blake had a
> goal - to destroy the Federation, which came from his idealism,
> however, if he had realized that he could accomplish that goal
> better if he relinquished control of the Liberator over to say,
> perhaps, Jenna (an artisan) or Avon (a rational), he may have had
> considerably more success.
This is *fascinating,* Adam.... Moving on to your next message,
> DJ said that the INTP makes up 1 to 3 percent of the population.
> You probably got this figure from a MBT resource.
I got that %-range off the cuff from my memory of an INTJ
colleague standing in my office doorway three or four years ago,
reading her profile and mine from "Please Understand Me" by
David Kiersey - thanks for the reference! I *knew* there was at
least one book out there that got into the %-distributions in the
population, but couldn't remember title or author - and killing
herself laughing over the potential of both types to drive the
rest of the world crazy. Knew she'd said either 1% or 3% but
couldn't remember which.
> This is primarily because the world doesn't need very many Ns.
> The S function, however, is very needed.
Agreed. Thinking again about your earlier comment re
perceptions of intuition...in the context where I've seen the
most of day-to-day applied type assessment, dealing with
management of change, it's easy for people to over-value
strong Ns as having the long-range visionary capacity to
be comfortable with lots of change and unafraid of making
decisions based on incomplete information. It's easy to be
impatient with the stronger S-types sitting there whinging about
not having enough information and being inconveniently twitchy
about where situations are headed, what's going to happen next,
and how on Earth did the N-types come up with *that* (whatever)
hare-brained idea? *but* the brutal reality is that their focus
on the real and actual is essential, and organizations that
over-ride their concerns often live to regret doing.
And then Alison entered with a related set of musings about
how the system could be applied to B7 *fans* - eh! this is
interesting, I'd like to think about it! - and Lisa returned with the
reference to http://keirsey.com, which is going to drive me nuts
now, until I can take time to go look at it!
[15-minute pause] Couldn't resist. Looked, did new test,
still INTP. <chuckle> Engineers, architects, R&D types,
frequently arrogant, and tend to be thunderingly crummy leaders of
anything.
Now scampering for the bus,
--DJ
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 10:27:32 -0600 (CST)
From: Susan.Moore@uni.edu
To: BLAKES7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs
Message-id: <01IT51JFMZHO8X7IZD@uni.edu>
Since I had to take the Myers-Briggs in a previous job, I came up with a little
song. Just picture Avon singing this:
The Introvert Song
(tune: Jesus Loves Me)
I'm an Introvert, this I know
For my Myers-Briggs tells me so
I am quiet and reserved
Not someone with a lot of nerve
Yes, I'm an Introvert
Yes, I'm an Introvert
Yes, I'm an Introvert
My Myers-Briggs tells me so.
Susan M. (INTP)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 17:38:04 -0000
From: "Jenni-Alison" <jenni-alison@dial.pipex.com>
To: "B7Lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs
Message-Id: <199802031744.SAA11393@samantha.lysator.liu.se>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Thank you all for this facinating topic. I'm definately going to have
to read a lot more about this though.
----------
> From: DJ Wight <Angnak@compuserve.com>
> To: B7Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
> Subject: Re: [B7L] Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs
> Date: 03 February 1998 16:06
> And then Alison entered with a related set of musings about
> how the system could be applied to B7 *fans* - eh! this is
> interesting, I'd like to think about it! - and Lisa returned with
the
> reference to http://keirsey.com, which is going to drive me nuts
> now, until I can take time to go look at it!
> [15-minute pause] Couldn't resist. Looked, did new test,
Me too! I'm an ENTJ, according to the test. Can't be right though,
I've got all the charisma of a currant bun!.
I'm going to have to get hold of Please Understand Me now, and work
through all these emails to understand what they really mean about B7
characters.
Thanks guys, this is a great thread.
Jenni
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 13:47:14 EST
From: RCobbett@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] E-Mail addresses
Message-ID: <263d43f3.34d76634@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Does anyone here know of any Blake's 7 E-Mail addresses/contacts at the BBC.
This is linked to the Softorange company (www.softorange.com)
Richard Cobbett
Softorange Interactive
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 09:00:22 +1300
From: Nicola Collie <nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz>
To: B7-list <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Ragnorok spelling
Message-Id: <l03130300b0fd26099001@[139.80.16.149]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> ->gwr@easynet.co.uk (Gareth Randall) writes:
> ->
> ->> the correct spelling is 'Ragnarok'.
> ->
> ->Almost, but not quite :-) It's "Ragnar=F6k" (and the thing between the r
> ->and k at the end is a o-with-dots). "Ragnarok" sounds more like a
> ->silly name for a heavy metal festival or something like that.
> ->--=20
^^^^ Is this another MSism?
SteveT:
>Those of us with MS****Mail get a VERY interesting spelling of the above:-))
Looked fine in in Calle's reply on Eudora 3.1 on a Mac :-). The MS'd
version came out mangled, tho'.
BTW, how does one pronounce the dotted (umlauted?) o? I take it it doesn't
rhyme with flock, dock, sock...
>Come the revolution - Bill Gates as a guest in Blake!
As sarcasm fodder for Avon? or for the one time Gan's limiter fails to
limit? ;-)
>"As the man throwing rocks at the seabirds said - I hit every one - I left
>no tern unstoned"
<snigger> Or he could have been supplying them with marijuana...
ttfn, Nicola
---
Nicola Collie nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz
Dunedin, New Zealand
"It just occurred to me that, as the description of a highly sophisticated
technological achievement "Avon's gadget works," seems to lack a certain
style."
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 17:56:39 -0000
From: "Heather Smith" <Heather.Smith@btinternet.com>
To: "Blake's 7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Ragnorok (was B5 & B7)
Message-Id: <E0xzpAo-0007UV-00@snow.btinternet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> ->Almost, but not quite :-) It's "Ragnar=F6k" (and the thing between the
r
> ->and k at the end is a o-with-dots). "Ragnarok" sounds more like a
> ->silly name for a heavy metal festival or something like that.
> ->--=20
>
> Those of us with MS****Mail get a VERY interesting spelling of the
above:-))
You do? I'm using Microsoft Mail but I got the 'o' with umlauts fine.
> Come the revolution - Bill Gates as a guest in Blake!
Playing Servalan's right hand man-explaining to her that he can install new
software for Slave that will make him even more useless, and make him crash
constantly (quite literally)!
Heather 'can't think of a clever quote to go here' Smith
'There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish'
-The fourth Doctor
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 20:43:38 -0800
From: "J. I. Horner" <jihorner@dial.pipex.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Ad Campaigns...
Message-ID: <34D7F1FA.479@dial.pipex.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
penny_kjelgaard@juno.com wrote:
>
> Alex! How wonderful! What a creative imagination you have.
>
> Jenna, perhaps, for Boeing? I can see her in a "fly the friendly skies
> with United," type add.
Sally Knyvette is currently appearing in an ad in the UK for Ariel wash
powder. She plays a forty-somethingish mum whose teenage son has just
come back from Glastonbury festival with filthy clothes. After doing the
necessary with the washing machinee she reminisces to her son that 'Of
course things were different in my day - we didn't wear clothes!'
Julie Horner
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 17:43:12 -0800
From: "Adam L. Fuller" <adfuller@ix.netcom.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: Blake's 7 and Myers Briggs
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980203174309.0068957c@POPD.ix.netcom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Dayna: ENFP or ESFP. Close to the line on S/N, but I'd
>say a weak intuitive
>Agree she's close to the line; she shows both NF and SP traits. I see her
>more on the SP side, but might change my mind depending on which episode
>I've watched recently.
This is Adam again. First of all, I think Dayna is an *extremely* WEAK NF.
She is the epitomy of the SP. One classic example is in "Aftermath," when
she comments on the absurdity of developing all those weapons and not using
them. Any kind of an N, but especially an NF, would understand that logic
completely. An SP just thinks they are being developed for pragmatic
reasons - to use. That's what SPs are all about - what can be done. What
should and shouldn't be done is left to the SJ. The NT and NF is interested
in why and how.
Another important thing I should note is that it's not neccessary to
analyze each individual function of a character as long as you determine
the temperament. The temperament is what is developed first. It makes up a
person's core preferences and core needs. The other two function serve as a
means for getting those core needs. So, if you want to question whether
Blake is a "T' or "F," just ask yourself this: is Blake a rational? No.
He's so far from it. He's an idealist - an NF. So that explains it right
there. Actually, though, I think Blake is a very, very strong F.
-Adam. (ENTJ)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 19:15:58 -0800
From: "Adam L. Fuller" <adfuller@ix.netcom.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Blake's 7 and Myers-Briggs
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980203191554.0068a788@POPD.ix.netcom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi,
Yes, those names are what Keirsey assigns for the four temperaments. SP:
artisan, SJ: guardian, NT: rational, NF: idealist. I think that they are
very fitting.
It's very difficult to keep up with all these great posts, and answer
everything that is said or asked. But, this is to respond to Alison Page's
question about fans and Myers-Briggs. Yes, you are absolutely correct.
Different types see different things in what they read and what they like
to watch on television. SP you will find interested in a lot of Ian
Flemming/James Bond type books, usually very action-oriented stories. They
like action movies, horror movies, and even sci-fi movies. SJ types will
read a lot of mysteries, Tom Clancy books, westerns, crime drama, etc. They
like to read a lot of best sellers. SJs are the main audience for the
myriad of O.J. Simpson books that have been "written." Female SJs like to
read a lot of gushy romance novels. Of course, so do some female SFPs. NFs
like to read the classics. My mother, who is a typical INFJ, loves to read
Jane Austen, Emily Bronte, and Charles Dickens. NFs like movies and books
about people's relationships with one another, and like to see good,
quality writing. NTs, like me, like science-fiction. When I say
science-fiction, I mean real science-fiction - nothing like Independence
Day and Men in Black (those are for SPs and SJs), but they enjoy shows like
Babylon 5, Blake's 7, "The Day the Earth Stood Still," "The Time Machine,"
and books by authors like Asimov, Clarke, and Heinlein. They also like to
read non-fiction that will bring them greater knowledge. NTs are notorious
for being pack rats when it comes to books. To an NT, collecting books is
collecting knowledge.
One other thing that you might be interested in, is that a person's
political affiliation *can* be explained by Myers-Briggs. In fact, most
political conflict in the United States represents the differences between
the J and the P. The J is more conservative, generally, whereas the P tends
to be more liberal. (Keep in mind, this is *generally*) Of course, although
the Republican party is very much supported by SJs (guardians), most of
their politicians are SP (artisans). This is because of the nature of
politics. Politics is artisan by nature. The only American president to
have taken the Myers-Briggs indicator exam is George Bush. I strongly
disagree with what he came out as - an NF. Like I said before, the exam is
usually wrong. We have *never* had an NF president and I don't expect that
we ever will because they are the least willing to play the poltical game.
There is a book written about presidents and Myers-Briggs, but I haven't
had a chance to read it yet. You can even find conjecture about it in other
books (I think Keirsey's book has it), but I disagree with a few of them.
Sorry if I missed something from a previous post! This great discussion is
kind of difficult to sort through!
-Adam L. Fuller (ENTJ)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 23:19:57 EST
From: penny_kjelgaard@juno.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Blake's 7 FANS & Myers-Briggs
Message-ID: <19980203.201712.13735.0.Penny_Kjelgaard@juno.com>
I went to the web site. Cool stuff. I am more familiar with learning
styles than this.
I took the test and came out an Idealist Champion. Moi? I have a
headache, so I suppose I could be anything. I'll have to take it again
when I am less encumbered.
Speaking of L. Ron Hubbard. I drive past our Scientology center all the
time. There is a sign up that says "Free Personality Test." I always
chuckle, and say to myself, "no thanks, I know I have a personality."
(No offence meant to Scientologists.)
Peace,
Penny
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 21:21:08 -0800
From: "Adam L. Fuller" <adfuller@ix.netcom.com>
To: Alison Page <alison@alisonpage.demon.co.uk>, blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980203212105.00686174@POPD.ix.netcom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Alison:
>Is there a (relatively) reliable way to test one's own type? Sorry to ask
>such a basic question. I looked at the character sorter, and it seems like
>fun, but fairly easy to fiddle (on purpose or otherwise) - back to the
>intrusion of wishful thinking again.
It's actually a very good question and it is certainly not basic. The only
reliable way to discover your type, in my opinion, is to understand the
theory. Once a person understands the theory, they'll be able to tell which
of the sixteen types they are. If you feel you understand what Myers-Briggs
means and the distinction between the different types, read the
descriptions of the types you think you might be and choose the one that
fits.
Another way of discovering your temperament by understanding the theory is
actually quite simple. Some experts suggest that you can draw a square and
divide it into four quadrants. The top left: SP, top right: SJ, bottom
left: NT, bottom right: NF. Now, ask yourself which of the four
temperaments are you *least* like. Which is the odd man out? Omit it. Many
experts say that the one diagnal to the one you omit is your temperament.
There's only one thing wrong, I think, with this theory. I'll tell you what
it is if you want, but more or less, I think this method works.
Oh yes, and I do agree that a lot of very extroverted people say that they
are introverts. Apparently they think that being introverted makes them
more introspective, and thus more intelligent. Not so! And they also think
it makes them unique because it is not as common as the E. Well, actually,
I believe that the MBTI literature is wrong about that too. Actually, Type
Resources is beginning to reverse that too. It is my opinion that there are
*more* introverts than extraverts. It's just that every extravert seems to
be counted more than once because they are more noticable people so it
seems as if there are more of them than there really are. Also,
extraversion does not mean how much a person interacts with others. At
least that's not it's MBTI meaning. It just means that they get their
energy from the external world - other people. Most of them are more
talkative than introverts, but not necessarily so. I'm an E and I have very
few friends and I don't like to go where there are a lot of people. I also
know introverts that love to go to parties and see other people. It all has
to do with where they get their energy. Introverted NTs are very interested
in the physical and natural sciences, whereas extraverted NTs are into the
social sciences, which is all about people and the external world.
-Adam L. Fuller (ENTJ)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 22:04:02 -0800
From: Ovina Maria Feldman <ofeldman@gte.net>
To: B7 <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Manipulation
Message-ID: <34D804D2.648D634A@gte.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
It's interesting about Avon saying, "Don't try to manipulate me, Blake!"
This is the kind of line that can have many readings. I took it
(especially after I had seen several episodes of B7 and was then able to
go back and re-watch this one) as "Don't (YOU BLAKE) try to manipulate
me (I'M SO MUCH BETTER AT IT)." Who was more manipulative is open to
debate. Blake managed to convince or cajole everyone, including Avon,
into doing what he wanted regardless of dissenting opinions.
--
C progamme run. C programme crash. C programmer quit.
Return to COBOL.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 22:18:54 -0800
From: Ovina Maria Feldman <ofeldman@gte.net>
To: B7 <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Fwd: [B7L] Howdy..Another Houston TX Blake fan here
Message-ID: <34D8084E.9518F9DF@gte.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> << ...Everything
> is bigger (and better) in Texas (hahaha...!!)
> >>
>
> Except my local PBS station, who have quit showing both B7 and Dr. Who AND Red
> Dwarf! They dropped Dr. Who right after running a big fund raiser which
> spottlighted Dr. Who and urged all Who fans to send in their money so they
> could continue running the series. The support from Who fans was tremendous.
> Two weeks later, they dropped Who, but kept the money. Made me REALLY mad!!
>
Is there something in the air in Texas? Pesticides? Oil refinery discharge? This
is the state that has a law against libeling dead meat.
--
C progamme run. C programme crash. C programmer quit.
Return to COBOL.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 22:38:36 -0800
From: Ovina Maria Feldman <ofeldman@gte.net>
To: B7 <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] B7 as the Norse gods
Message-ID: <34D80CEC.1FEACFC9@gte.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Tim Richards & Narrelle Harris wrote:
> Elise said:
> >I'm not sure whom we could cast as B7's Loki.
>
> You'd have to have some weird teleport accident that mixed Avon and Vila up
> as one person... or maybe have Servalan mix with someone a touch less
> poisonous.
>
> I've cast Blake as Prometheus in a song before now... but which gods in
> general might they be most like...? A can see Servalan as Circe, and Dayna
> could well be Diana.
>
> If you stretch it a bit, you could cast Blake as Osiris and Travis as Set.
> Considering Osiris' dismemberment at the hands of Set in the original
> story, there may be at last an explanation for Blake's apparent lack of
> interest in Jenna....
>
I could certainly see Vila as Coyote.
Blake would make a good Homeric god -- lots of indignation and righteousness,
but with many human foibles.
Avon is almost too Faustian to be a divinity (however, divine he may be -- bad
pun bad pun smack me...please). He shares some of the characteristics of the
darker aspects of Dionysus: He travelled about teaching men the mysteries of
his worship and how to cultivate the vine. Those who welcomed him received the
gift of the vine; those who resisted him were visited with terrible
punishments. He had a band of female followers the Maenids...
--
C progamme run. C programme crash. C programmer quit.
Return to COBOL.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 22:47:23 -0800
From: Ovina Maria Feldman <ofeldman@gte.net>
To: B7 <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Cygnus Alpha Cult
Message-ID: <34D80EFB.C9BFE3D0@gte.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> > And have any of the computer companies approached Paul Darrow about doing
> > an ad? You know, something like the "I never would have gotten caught,
> > swindling the Federation Banking Cartel if I'd only had a Macintosh
> > PowerBook with Tarriel Cell 64330 Memory Enhancement?"
> >
>
> I'd LOVE to see that. Kinda like those 80's computer ads with Tom Baker
> and Lila Ward in full costume. Really funny to see in retrospect.
> And now to toatally go off topic...
> I watched Mission Impossible last night and was forced to cringe over
> their total lack of computer knowledge and trying to sound high tech.
> (...and I'll need one of those new RISC based Pentium P6 laptops...) How
> many flaws can you spot in that phrase. Especially funny since he ended
> up using a PowerBook 5300 (at least the RISC part is right then)
Films never seem to be able to get computers right. They want them to be
exciting, but they're not. They're just types of boxes that set about
computating. Orac is interesting because he has caustic personality inherited
from Ensor, not because of any computer-ness about him.
I have a similar rant about the way Analysts are portrayed in film/television.
Maybe not a rant so much as envy as in "God why doesn't something exciting or
dynamic happen to me!"
--
C progamme run. C programme crash. C programmer quit.
Return to COBOL.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 23:05:08 -0800
From: Ovina Maria Feldman <ofeldman@gte.net>
To: B7 <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Ad Campaigns...
Message-ID: <34D81324.5A0CC4C4@gte.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
penny_kjelgaard@juno.com wrote:
> Jenna, perhaps, for Boeing? I can see her in a "fly the friendly skies
> with United," type add.
>
> Zen debating with Bill gates would be cute.
>
Or Zen could do ads for that company -- don't remember the name, have no
idea what they do -- but their tag line is "We don't make the things you
use; we make the things you use better". Sort of like The System.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 22:11:23 +0000 (GMT)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Swept From the Sea
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.09-0203221123-ab5Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1
I forget who asked about this film (I'm not even 100% certain the question was
raised on this list), but it doesn't have Gareth Thomas in it.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 18:32:38 +0000 (GMT)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] SC: Radio Times letters
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.09-0203183238-339Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1
On Tue 03 Feb, Julia Jones wrote:
> Just bought this week's Radio Times, and as always turned to the letters
> page first. Somehow I guessed the identity of the writer complaining
> about the lack of Blake in Blake's 7 before I finished reading the
> letter...
>
> Well done, Judith, that was a politer complaint about Barry Letts than I
> would have managed.
You didn't see the letter I wrote to Brian Lighthill...
I nearly flipped after reading his comment in the on-line chat that he would use
Barry Letts again if there was another radio play. I did my best to be polite,
but I don't think I left any doubt as to my feelings about the script. I just
hope that the letter finds him. Addressing anything c/o BBC is bound to stand a
chance of getting lost in the system.
My philosophy is that if you don't complain, nobody will realise that the
problem needs fixing. On the other hand, it's no use being rude, because that
just makes people switch off and ignore what you're saying. You have to say the
positive things as well.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 08:30:21 -0000
From: "Heather Smith" <Heather.Smith@btinternet.com>
To: "Blake's 7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Help!
Message-Id: <E0y00N9-0005BN-00@snow.btinternet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Help! I seem to be using the wrong address to send to the spin list, my
messages keep bouncing, can someone enlighten me as to the correct address?
Heather 'can't think of a clever quote to go here' Smith
'There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish'
-The fourth Doctor
--------------------------------
End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #34
*************************************