From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Jan 26 21:41:53 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA02708; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 22:16:07 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id VAA28326; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 21:45:26 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id VAA28315; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 21:45:23 -0500 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA19709; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 21:42:53 -0500 Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 21:42:53 +0001 (EST) From: Steve H Rose Subject: Re: SAUDI BLACKMAIL TO BE DEBATED IN BRITISH PARLIAMENT -- MER Special, 1/23/96 To: tariqas@facteur.std.com In-Reply-To: <960123155616_124974456@mail04.mail.aol.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Assalamu alaikum. I have sent a note to MIDDLEEAST@AOL.COM requesting that purely political material not be sent to the tariqas list. Insh'Allah, they will stop sending it. This list is for sharing on spiritual topics and our own live's experiences -- not for political material or argument. Yours, habib rose host of tariqas From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Jan 26 22:04:17 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA11271; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 22:38:47 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id WAA00920; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 22:10:56 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id WAA00915; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 22:10:54 -0500 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28642; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 22:05:17 -0500 Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 22:05:17 +0001 (EST) From: Steve H Rose Subject: Re: Subki's invocation of tawassul (seeking means) To: tariqas@facteur.std.com In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Assalamu alaikum. On Thu, 25 Jan 1996, Moustafa Elqabbany wrote: > Assalamu alaikum: > > I just want to warn some of the brothers and sisters on this mailing list > concerning the deception of the Naqshbandis. Like the Habashis, they claim > to be Ahlus-Sunnah wal Jamaa`ah, whereas they are merely an attempt to > divide Sunnis. They are better than the Habashis in terms of their public > relations, but they nonetheless have deviated beliefs. > > I've argued with two prominent Naqshbandis on the internet (through personal > email, so I won't reveal their names), and I've found on at least one > occasion that ***THERE REFERENCES WERE FAKE***. (It was the only time I > bothered checking their references.) We were arguing about celebration > of the Prophet's birthday (may the blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) > and I found that the references provided were made up. > > I believe in a basic principle: assume ignorance before malice. The > Naqshbandis, I assume, are misleading people due to ignorance, not due to > malice. However, they are nonetheless responsible for their actions. > > BTW, don't bother calling me a "Wahhabi", because I'm not. Actually, the > scholar I attend lessons with is Hanafi. > I'm not sure if and how to respond to this message. So, I guess I'll just point out that there are Naqshbandis and there are Naqashbandis. To assume that interactions with a few members of any of the MANY Naqshbandi Orders proves something about Naqshbandis in general is a bit of a stretch. One could just as easily say "I had such and such an interaction with a couple of prominent Sufis, so they're all this way or that way" Yours, habib From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sat Jan 27 04:00:10 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA25771; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 23:23:07 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id WAA05297; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 22:57:25 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id WAA05288; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 22:57:20 -0500 Received: from UNiX.asb.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA16380; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 22:53:46 -0500 Received: from asb24 (sls4.asb.com [165.254.128.14]) by UNiX.asb.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA17440; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 23:00:10 -0500 Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 23:00:10 -0500 Message-Id: <199601270400.XAA17440@UNiX.asb.com> X-Sender: fhaddad@unix.asb.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: msa-ec@facteur.std.com, tariqas@world.std.com From: fhaddad@unix.asb.com (Fouad Haddad) Subject: Re: Subki's invocation of tawassul (seeking means) Cc: soc-religion-islam@telerama.lm.com X-Mailer: Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Moustafa alQabbany wrote: >... I am not convinced that Imam Subki (may >Allah have mercy upon him) said what the original post claimed he said. I encourage you to look up Subki's "Fatawa" in Islamic libraries or bookstores in Vancouver where you live. If you don't find it, there is a beautiful new edition of it I saw the last time I was in London, also in two volumes. The pagination might vary. The price was 39.00 Pounds Sterling, but you will agree it is very affordable compared to calumny. You can obtain it from Riad al-Rayyes Booksellers, 56 Knightsbridge, London, SW1X 7NJ. tel. 071-235-4240. Fax 071-235-9305. >Why? Because I have found fake references in the past. There is an >Arabic proverb: "man ghashshaka fee maa ta`lam falaa tusaddiquhu fee maa laa >ta`lam", meaning, "if someone cheats you knowingly, do not believe him in >something which you don't know". There is a Divine proverb which says: "Give us your proof if you are speaking the truth." I will address these references which you call fake insha Allah. >The scholar I learn from, Nazih Hammad, does not have very high regard >for the Naqshbandis. It's not a question of madhab. The awliya (saints) "accompany the world with bodies whose spirits are attached to the Highest Regard." Ibn al-Jawzi, "Sifat al-safwa" [Those Characterized by Purity] (Beirut: Dar al-kitab al-`ilmiyya, 1989) vol. 1 p. 173. Now, about your accusations of fake references. Back in December you said: I read Hisham Qabbany's article closely and I have the following comments... As for Ibn Katheer's book "Dhikr mawlid rasoolillah", I have not been able to confirm from a third party that such a book exists, and to tell you the truth, I'm not convinced it does. If you want to quote Ibn Katheer, quote the books that are well known, such as his tafseer (HQ quotes many ayahs "proving" that the mawlid is praiseworthy -- did IK say these same things), his seerah, al-bidaayah wa an-nihaayah or other famous works. Furthermore, my sheikh, Nazih (Abu Kamal) Hammad, a true scholar, says that the aforementioned book does not exist! Shaykh Hisham Kabbani quoted the book of Ibn Kathir because its topic is relevant and its author is a fervent admirer of Ibn Taymiyya who passes for the arch-enemy of Mawlid. Now you may like to hear only about what you feel familiar with but you should at least allow others the opportunity to learn something new. As for the existence of the book, I saw it and read it and it is available at the library of Columbia University in New York City. The introduction lists the manuscript on which the edition is based and the library in which it is kept, as well as displaying a picture of the first and second folios. I have never seen Sheikh Hammad, but what would you call me if I claimed, on that basis, that he didn't exist? Besides the above, you can confirm Ibn Kathir's acceptance of the mawlid from his praise of King Muzaffar of Irbil in his "Bidaya wa al-nihaya" quoted by Suyuti in his Fatwa: "Ibn Kathir said in his <> [History]: "He [Muzaffar] used to celebrate the noble Mawlid in Rabi` al-Awwal and organize huge festivities for it. He was a wise king, brave, a fierce fighter, intelligent, learned, and just. May Allah have mercy on him and ennoble his grave. Shaykh Abu al-Khattab ibn Dihya compiled for him a book on the Mawlid of the Prophet (s) and named it <> [The Illumination Concerning the Birthday of the Bringer of Glad Tidings and Warner] and the king rewarded him with 1,000 dinars for it. His rule lasted until he died in the year 630 [Hijri] as he was besieging the French in the city of Acca [Acre, Palestine] after a glorious and blameless life."" You also said: As for "majmoo` fatawa ibn teymiyyeh", vol. 23, p. 163, I looked that up and found that he was talking about sacrifice on Eid ul-adha. The publisher is "Dar al-`arabiyyah". Perhaps you are using a different publisher. As far as I know, there is only one publisher for this book. Try vol. 25 p. 298. Try, try again! The fatawa of Ibn Taymiyya are not too large for you if you live on a desert island. And they have received more than a dozen editions. In the past decade alone, the complete fatawa have received three different editions. I will give you a tip: the very same text of Ibn Taymiyya's fatwa on the mawlid is entirely quoted, word for word, in his one-volume "Iqtida' al-sirat al-mustaqim" which is in every bookstore and in every house where Islamic books are bought and placed on shelves. Look it up. Section entitled: "The Innovated Festivities of Time and Place" (ma uhditha min al-a`yad al-zamaniyya wa al-makaniyya). The discussion on the mawlid begins with the words: "And similarly what some people innovate by analogy with the Christians who celebrate the birth of Jesus, or out of love for the Prophet (s) and to exalt him, and Allah may reward them for this love and effort, not on the fact that it is an innovation..." This is what Ibn Taymiyya's admirers cannot swallow, and they don't forgive him for saying this. The editor of the edition I have in front of me has a *two-page footnote* here in which he throws a fit: "Kayfa yakunu lahum thawabun `ala hadha??... Ayyu ijtihadun fi hadha??" "How can they possibly obtain a reward for this??... What effort is in this??" etc. I like to read it and say: "wa ma kunna linahtadi lawla an hadanallah." The Wahhabi author Mashhur Al Salman explodes in similar terms in his recent edition of Abu Shama's "al-Ba`ith `ala inkar al-bida`" [Assault on All Innovations], because when it comes to Mawlid, Abu Shama instead of censoring it dares to say: "Truly it is a praiseworthy innovation and a blessed one"! A little bit further in Ibn Taymiyya's text is the passage quoted by Shaykh Hisham, may Allah bless and honor him: "fa ta`zim al-mawlid wa ittikhadhuhu mawsiman qad yaf`aluhu ba`d al-nas wa yakunu lahu fihi ajrun `azimun li husni qasdihi wa ta`zimihi li rasulillah (s)" which means: "exalting the birth (of the Prophet) and taking it as a festive season may be done by someone who may obtain immense reward for it due to his good intention and the fact that he is exalting the Prophet (s)" This is Ibn Taymiyya, the same who criticizes mawlid and considers it a bid`a on the very same page. Those who know something about Ibn Taymiyya vouch that he said it, and they accept what he accepted, namely that yes, there may be reward, "immense reward," for the celebration of Mawlid! But the majority of people, including yourself, are nominal rather than true readers of Ibn Taymiyya. You also wrote: As a Muslim I will assume that you accidently mistyped the above references, as well as forgetting to provide me with references from Ibn Hajar, and as-Suyuti, as you claimed on sri. Ibn Hajar and Suyuti's fatwas on the permissibility of mawlid have been posted and reposted. But thanks to the miracle of the Internet, we can repost them yet again. =======Nth repost of Suyuti and `Asqalani fatwas on Mawlid========= ( Jalal al Din Suyuti ) The Sheikh of Islam and hadith master of his age, Ahmed ibn Hajar ( Asqalani ) was asked about the practice of commemorating the birth of the Prophet ( Allah bless him and give him peace ), and gave the following written reply: As for the origin of the practice of commemorating the Prophet's birth ( Allah bless him and give him peace ), it is an innovation ( bida'a ) that has not been conveyed to us from any of the pious early muslims of the first three centuries, despite which it has included both features that are praisweorthy and features that are not. If one takes care to include in such a commemoration * only * things that are * praiseworthy * and avoids those that are otherwise, it is a * praise worthy * innovation, while if ones does not, it is not. An authentic primary textual basis from which its legal validity is inferable has occured to me, namely the rigourously authenticated ( sahih ) hadith in the collections of Bukhari and Muslim that ' the Prophet ( Allah bless him and give him peace ) came to Medina and found the Jews fasting on the tenth of Muharram ( ' Ashura ' ), so he asked them about it and they replied It is the day on which Allah drowned Pharaoh and rescued Moses, so we fast in it to thanks to Allah Most high ', which indicates the validity of giving thanks to Allah for the blessings He has bestowed on a * particular * day in providing a benefit, or averting an affliction, * repeating * ones thanks on the anniversary of that day every year, * giving thanks to Allah * taking * any various forms of worship * such as prostration, fasting, giving charity or reciting the Koran. Then he further writes THEN WHAT BLESSING IS GREATER THAN THE BIRTH OF THE PROPHET ( Allah bless him and give him peace ), THE PROPHET OF MERCY, ON THIS DAY ? Furthermore he also states IN LIGHT OF WHICH, ONE SHOULD TAKE CARE TO COMMEMORATE IT ON THE DAY ITSELF IN ORDER TO CONFORM TO THE ABOVE STORY OF MOSES AND THE TENTH OF MUHARRAM, THOSE WHO DO NOT VIEW THE MATTER THUS DO NOT MIND COMMEMORATING IT ON ANY DAY OF THE MONTH, WHILE SOME HAVE EXPANDED ITS TIME TO ANY OF DAY THE YEAR, WHATEVER EXCEPTION MAY BE TAKEN AT SUCH A VIEW. Reference : al Suyuti, Jalal al Din. al Hawi li al fatawi al fiqh was ulum al tafsir was al hadith wa al usul wa al nahw wa al i wa sa'ir al funun. 2 vols. 1352/1933 - 34 Reprint Beirut : Dar al Kutub al Ilmiyya, 1403/1983. Quoted in The Reliance of the Traveller ( Ahmad ibn Naqib al Misri ) A Classical Manual of Islamic Sacred Law translated by Noah Ha Mim Keller ( 1991 ) page w58.0 --> w59.0 ======end of Nth repost of Suyuti and `Asqalani fatwas on mawlid===== You also wrote: A few, like as-Suyuti, have said that is allowable (jaa'iz) under certain conditions. Notice that even those who say it's allowable merely say it's allowable and do not say that it is mustahab or sunnah (these are the words of Shaykh Abu Kamal). - Read the above yet again. Suyuti's inference of its permissibility from a hadith makes it a sunna, and he urges that it be celebrated, which is to say he considers it mustahabb (praiseworthy). - Ibn Hajar al-Haythami said in his fatwa on mawlid (Fatawa hadithiyya p. 150, text reproduced by offset in the Waqf Ikhlas 1995 reprint of Haythami's Mawlid poem entitled "al-ni`mat al-kubra `ala al-`alamin" [The Great Favor Bestowed Upon the Worlds]: "Most celebrations of mawlid and dhikr conducted in our country (Egypt) consist in goodness... and some are bad... The good ones are a *sunna* falling under the ahadith that regard dhikr, such as: "No people sit remembering Allah except the angels encompass them..." in which there is the clearest evidence for the excellence of (such) good gatherings." - al-hafiz al-Kettani ("Riyad al-janna") and al-sayyid Dahlan ("Sirat al-dahlan"): sunna. You also wrote: I am not a "follower of Ibn Teymiyyeh". Can't you see that not everyone is blindly glued to a shaykh? Rather, I follow all the scholars of Ahlus-Sunnah wal-Jamaa`ah, including Ibn Hajar, an-Nawawi, as-Suyuti, Ibn Kathir, Ibn Teymiyyeh, etc. You may not be blind or glued, but you hardly show knowledge of the above scholars, and I noticed that you hardly follow your own shaykh, since you said back in December: I should have taken his advice: he told me not to bother even wasting one minute of my time arguing with sects like the Naqshabandis and Habashis. (He did not prohibit me from it, he just offered it as a kind piece of advice.) There is something to his advice and I urge you to reconsider it. What have you achieved by ignoring it except accusing of deception a Muslim probably twice your age at whose hands thousands have entered Islam in North America (including your area!), and slighting Naqshbandis who are nothing more nor less than your brothers? With all the enemies of Muslims in the world you couldn't pick a better target than your fellow Muslims, or a better time than the month of Ramadan for this? Shame on you. Blessings and Peace on the Prophet, his Family, and his Companions Fouad Haddad Naqshbandi-Haqqani Foundation of Ahl al-Sunna wal-Jama`a From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sat Jan 27 04:00:40 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA26898; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 23:26:55 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id XAA05991; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 23:06:51 -0500 Received: from soho.ios.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id XAA05983; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 23:06:47 -0500 Received: from LOCALNAME (ppp-19.ts-7.nyc.idt.net [206.20.67.83]) by soho.ios.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA14916 for ; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 23:00:40 -0500 Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 23:00:40 -0500 Message-Id: <199601270400.XAA14916@soho.ios.com> X-Sender: kaleema@198.4.75.47 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: "K.Ahmad" Subject: "I Thought" Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: A i Thought Yes i did To the name "tariqas" Ways, paths, methods, systems, plans..... What do i find, the same old EGO againist EGO Do we not learn Are we so unenlightened Do we not see Are we so blind That we grasp only what is within reach "You and me", not "We" All have struck a cord in me Didn't mean to "sound" musical Keep my shoes on outside a Mosque Always raise my first finger, the one next to the thumb Think of shaytan as the devil Now the other: O Allah will you hear me from my heart i am from You For You For within me You do exist For with out You i do not You who have gave me my mental capacity And it is You, i sometimes ponder and question Forgive me for i want to unearth Why i am made of dust and clay Kaleem From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Jan 26 20:21:33 1996 Received: from relay5.UU.NET by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA09756; Sat, 27 Jan 1996 02:07:25 -0500 Received: from europe.std.com by relay5.UU.NET with SMTP id QQaaft12106; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 16:18:25 -0500 (EST) Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id PAA18603; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 15:21:38 -0500 Received: from access1.digex.net by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id PAA18590; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 15:21:34 -0500 From: heart@access.digex.net Received: (from heart@localhost) by access1.digex.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA16830 ; for ; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 15:21:33 -0500 Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 15:21:33 -0500 (EST) To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Yusuf Ali translation In-Reply-To: <9601060000.AA01044@serii.sybase.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Does anyone own the copyright to Y.A.'s translation and commentary? Even if it is in the public domain, I can't see that anyone can change whatever they want and still publish it as a Y.A. version. ghina From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sat Jan 27 22:29:14 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA16915; Sat, 27 Jan 1996 17:52:51 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id RAA24804; Sat, 27 Jan 1996 17:29:19 -0500 Received: from relay6.UU.NET by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id RAA24799; Sat, 27 Jan 1996 17:29:16 -0500 From: SNAPSHUTS@aol.com Received: from mail06.mail.aol.com by relay6.UU.NET with SMTP id QQaajp11305; Sat, 27 Jan 1996 17:29:15 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail06.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA16826 for tariqas@europe.std.com; Sat, 27 Jan 1996 17:29:14 -0500 Date: Sat, 27 Jan 1996 17:29:14 -0500 Message-Id: <960127172913_305499023@mail06.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: PROF. AL-MASS'ARI & "THE SAUDI CESSPIT" - MER Special #7 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Habib Rose, Greetings --I gather your message did not get through. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sat Jan 27 22:54:54 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA27455; Sat, 27 Jan 1996 18:20:01 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id RAA27443; Sat, 27 Jan 1996 17:56:46 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id RAA27438; Sat, 27 Jan 1996 17:56:44 -0500 Received: from mail.nyc.pipeline.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA17563; Sat, 27 Jan 1996 17:55:02 -0500 Received: from pipe3.nyc.pipeline.com (sbryquer@pipe3.nyc.pipeline.com [198.80.32.43]) by mail.nyc.pipeline.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA05799 for ; Sat, 27 Jan 1996 17:54:53 -0500 (EST) From: Simon Bryquer Received: (sbryquer@localhost) by pipe3.nyc.pipeline.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id RAA12854; Sat, 27 Jan 1996 17:54:54 -0500 Date: Sat, 27 Jan 1996 17:54:54 -0500 Message-Id: <199601272254.RAA12854@pipe3.nyc.pipeline.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Use Delete Filter on MIDDLEEAST Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: I noticed that Habib Rose's notification to MIDDLEEAST was ignored. So I decided to use a filter deleting (also known in some mail software as a 'kill-file') anything from sender MIDDLEEAST@aol.com before I see it. -- Simon Bryquer From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sat Jan 27 23:17:07 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA05883; Sat, 27 Jan 1996 18:46:33 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id SAA29669; Sat, 27 Jan 1996 18:17:17 -0500 Received: from yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id SAA29650; Sat, 27 Jan 1996 18:17:12 -0500 Received: from localhost (darice@localhost) by yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (8.6.4/8.6.4) id KAA19370; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 10:17:09 +1100 Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 10:17:07 +1100 (EST) From: Fred Rice To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: PROF. AL-MASS'ARI & "THE SAUDI CESSPIT" - MER Special #7 In-Reply-To: <960127172913_305499023@mail06.mail.aol.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: On Sat, 27 Jan 1996 SNAPSHUTS@aol.com wrote: > Habib Rose, > Greetings --I gather your message did not get through. Assalamu alaikum, I, too, have emailed middleeast@aol.com, twice, letting them know that (IMO) their posts are inappropriate. They didn't reply. Wassalam, Farid ud-Dien Rice From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sun Jan 28 00:03:01 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA23819; Sat, 27 Jan 1996 19:37:46 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id TAA04313; Sat, 27 Jan 1996 19:04:27 -0500 Received: from sowebo.charm.net by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id TAA04308; Sat, 27 Jan 1996 19:04:23 -0500 Message-Id: <9601271904.AA16933@sowebo.charm.net> Received: from charm.net by sowebo.charm.net; Sat, 27 Jan 96 19:04 EST Content-Length: 593 Content-Type: text Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Anthony V. Teelucksingh" Organization: Rodgers Forge in Towson, Maryland To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Date: Sat, 27 Jan 1996 19:03:01 -500 Subject: Re: PROF. AL-MASS'ARI & "THE SAUDI CESSPIT" - MER Special # Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: On 28 Jan 96, concerning Re: PROF. AL-MASS'ARI & "THE SAUDI > Assalamu alaikum, > > I, too, have emailed middleeast@aol.com, twice, letting > them know that (IMO) their posts are inappropriate. They > didn't reply. > > Wassalam, > > Farid ud-Dien Rice > Isn't Middleeast@aol.com spamming, and couldn't AOL's postmaster be notified that a subscriber is abusing the service and this list? -- Tony Anthony V. Teelucksingh "Some circumstantial evidence is very strong, as when you find a trout in the milk." -- Henry David Thoreau From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sun Jan 28 00:56:22 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA14134; Sat, 27 Jan 1996 20:31:22 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id UAA10205; Sat, 27 Jan 1996 20:00:50 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id UAA10187; Sat, 27 Jan 1996 20:00:45 -0500 Received: from yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA00606; Sat, 27 Jan 1996 19:56:32 -0500 Received: from localhost (darice@localhost) by yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (8.6.4/8.6.4) id LAA22653; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 11:56:24 +1100 Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 11:56:22 +1100 (EST) From: Dien Alfred Rice To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: A Thought from Rumi Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: I remember reading recently something from Rumi: "If your thought is a rose, then you will be the rosegarden." What a beautiful thought to remember! :) (Unfortunately, though, now I don't remember where I read it.) Peace, and Ramadan Mubarak, Farid ud-Dien Rice From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sun Jan 28 02:29:05 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA18966; Sat, 27 Jan 1996 21:58:10 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id VAA20972; Sat, 27 Jan 1996 21:29:08 -0500 Received: from emout04.mail.aol.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id VAA20967; Sat, 27 Jan 1996 21:29:06 -0500 From: Jinavamsa@aol.com Received: by emout04.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA09991 for tariqas@europe.std.com; Sat, 27 Jan 1996 21:29:05 -0500 Date: Sat, 27 Jan 1996 21:29:05 -0500 Message-Id: <960127212903_129132291@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Yusuf Ali translation Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: >Does anyone own the copyright to Y.A.'s translation and commentary? Even >if it is in the public domain, I can't see that anyone can change >whatever they want and still publish it as a Y.A. version. >ghina dear ghina, I have a copy here (from the library) of Abdullah Yusuf Ali's text, translation, and commentary, The meaning of the Glorious Qur'an, in 2 [bilingual, Arabic and English] volumes. The publisher here is given as Dar Al-kitab Al-Masri (Cairo Egypt) and Dar Al-kitab Allubnani (Beirut Lebanon). Above that information is the statement: "All rights reserved to the publishers." The first ed. is 1934. I have here the 3rd ed., 1938. (I don't know enough law, esp. international copyright law, to know what this means in terms of 1996 issues. Perhaps someone knows if there were renewals of the copyrights between then and now) So maybe someone else can continue this thread, if interested. I hope that helps a little with your concern. Jinavamsa From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sun Jan 28 01:46:37 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA23076; Sat, 27 Jan 1996 22:08:49 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id VAA22707; Sat, 27 Jan 1996 21:46:51 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id VAA22695; Sat, 27 Jan 1996 21:46:48 -0500 Received: from peoples1.peoples.net by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA14073; Sat, 27 Jan 1996 21:43:11 -0500 Received: from [206.40.96.20] (randolph-18.peoples.net [206.40.96.20]) by peoples1.peoples.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA17116; Sat, 27 Jan 1996 20:19:58 -0600 Message-Id: <199601280219.UAA17116@peoples1.peoples.net> To: Mounier Hanafi , Tariqas Subject: Re: RENGA: *Light* Date: Sat, 27 Jan 96 20:46:37 -0500 From: "Wm. Whitney" X-Mailer: E-Mail Connection v2.5.03 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: -- [ From: Wm. Whitney * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- Subject: Re: RENGA: *Light* > > Sky cried her tear drops > washing all our sins away Amir > 'pit pats' sound of bliss > > > Spider sky with clouds > Silver bands of sun's last light Hadi > Chill winds shake my soul > > > Louisiana > Agadir, Ild de Gerba Mackie > Belighted Divans > > > The cresent holds > an infinite amount of space Jabriel > see the star > > > Headlights through thin slits > Street lamps through the blind in pools Saki Zenzaki > Shimmering: pools light > > > Hot cocoa, hot cup > Opening letter from you. Jalaludin Roberts > Hot skin, fireplace heat. > > > Salmon, silver red > light rising from and ocean Junnaiyd Moore > warm sunset and friends > > > Windows innocent of glass > Let the cold inside Chime > "The sun is a moon in my heart." > > > It's so very cold > in Southern California Tansen-Muni > Cold hands but warm heart > > > Love's night time journey > embracing the darkness chill Ruthie Roberts > heralding in its beauty and warmth > > > Illumination > is the goal of everyone > what a glow we'll make Tansen-Muni > > > Inter-light > spills forth from within > enlightening the world from without Ruthie Roberts > > > Transect horizons > journey of sunrise, sunset > Starry Milky Way desert donkey > > > where there is darkness > winter has surrendered > so the spring can rise Jabriel > > > The inner light shines > From the eyes, the windows of > The soul. Keep shining! mikail davenport > > > I dreamt my deathbed > spilled my body onto floor; > "I" burst into light. Noor in MN. > > > Night fog, morning dew > Seeing all things as they are > A lifting of veils Jelaludin Roberts > > > Imagine we are > snowflakes evaporating > in the light of the One Candace > > > winter light shines clear > from more than one direction > we are all backlit Junnaiyd Moore > > > You can be the candle > which brings the light > or the mirror which reflects it. Michael Gest > > > Warm Asha ravished > by the lights of tariqas: Mackie > Salaat's last gleaming. > > Eyes closed--each cell coruscates; > Eyes open-forms held by intrinsic light. Abraham Sarmad > What a dance! > > > > > The dawn slipped away > in between frozen thoughts: still > and opened an unimagined day Jabriel > > > > Light strikes the new fallen snow > like the flutter of the flicker's wing > dancing beneath evergreen boughs. Panther Eagle From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sat Jan 27 10:21:37 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA23327; Sat, 27 Jan 1996 22:09:36 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id VAA20769; Sat, 27 Jan 1996 21:26:21 -0500 Received: from relay1.UU.NET by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id VAA20746; Sat, 27 Jan 1996 21:26:15 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP id QQaaht21062; Sat, 27 Jan 1996 05:23:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from UNiX.asb.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29897; Sat, 27 Jan 1996 05:16:12 -0500 Received: from asb13 (sls3.asb.com [165.254.128.13]) by UNiX.asb.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id FAA06045; Sat, 27 Jan 1996 05:21:37 -0500 Date: Sat, 27 Jan 1996 05:21:37 -0500 Message-Id: <199601271021.FAA06045@UNiX.asb.com> X-Sender: fhaddad@unix.asb.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: msa-ec@facteur.std.com, tariqas@world.std.com From: fhaddad@unix.asb.com (Fouad Haddad) Subject: [7] On dhikr (Remembrance of God) Cc: soc-religion-islam@telerama.lm.com X-Mailer: Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: [7] ON DHIKR (from NUZHAT AL-MAJALIS) Six Benefits of Dhikr (continued) 2. Remittance of Sins Through Dhikr It is related that a servant of God will join the gatherings of dhikr with sins the like of mountains and then rise and leave one such gathering with nothing left of them to his name. This is why the Prophet (s) called it one of the groves of Paradise when he said: "If you pass by the groves of Paradise, be sure to graze in them," and someone said: "What are the groves of Paradise?" to which he replied: "The circles of dhikr." It wil be mentioned again in the chapter on God-wariness (taqwa) insha Allah. `Ata' said - may God the Exalted have mercy on him: "Whoever sits in a gathering in which God is remembered, God will remit for him ten evil gatherings of his." Abu Yazid al-Bistami was told - may God be well pleased with him: "I have entrusted you with a secret for which you shall render Me an account under the Tree of Bliss (shajarat tooba)," whereupon he said: "We are under that tree as long as we remain in the remembrance of God." [Note: Shaykh Hisham said: "May God bless his saints for their piercing awareness, and may He raise their stations higher and not prevent their benefit from reaching us. This statement of our master Bayazid, one of the early saints of the Naqshbandi- Haqqani Golden Chain, typifies the saints who are aware that were they to drift from God's presence even for a second they would cease to exist, even if they were in Paradise. This is why Bayazid elsewhere said: "Among God's servants in Paradise are those who, were they to be denied God's sight for even a single moment, would plead to leave Paradise the way the inhabitants of the Fire plead to be brought out of the Fire." Shaykh `Abd al-Qadir al-Gilani referred to them when he said that for the common person disbelief is a lifetime of heedlessness, whereas for the Most Truthful Saint (siddiq), it is but one second of the same.] It is related on `Ali's authority - may God be well pleased with him - that God manifests Himself (yatajalla) to the rememberers during dhikr and the recitation of Qur'an. The Prophet (s) said: "No group gathers and remembers God seeking nothing other than Him except a caller from heaven calls out to them: "Arise forgiven, for your bad deeds have been turned into good ones!"" Abu al-Darda' said that the Prophet (s) said: "God verily will raise on the Day of resurrection people bearing light in their faces, carried aloft on pulpits of pearl, whom the people will envy. They are neither prophets nor martyrs." Upon hearing this a beduin Arab fell to his knees and said: "Show them to us (ajlihim), O Prophet of God!" - that is: "describe them for us." He replied: "They are those who love one another for God's sake alone. They come from many different tribes, countries, and cities. They gather together for the remembrance of God the Exalted, remembering Him." Someone said concerning God's saying with reference to Solomon - peace be upon him: "I verily will punish him with hard punishment" (27:21) that it means: "Verily I shall drive him far from the gatherings of dhikr"... Al-Junayd said - may God be well pleased with him - concerning God's saying: "And (He is the One) Who causeth me to die, then giveth me life again" (26:81), that this means: "He causes me to die with heedlessness (of Him), then He causes me to live with remembrance (of Him)." Al- Hasan al-Basri said - may God have mercy on him: "No people sit remembering God the Exalted with one of the people of Paradise in their midst except God grants him to intercede for all of them." Blessings and Peace on the Prophet, his Family, and his Companions Fouad Haddad URL: http://www.best.com/~informe/mateen/haqqani.html [in 9 languages] From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sun Jan 28 01:46:44 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28505; Sat, 27 Jan 1996 22:24:28 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id VAA22745; Sat, 27 Jan 1996 21:47:10 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id VAA22740; Sat, 27 Jan 1996 21:47:07 -0500 Received: from peoples1.peoples.net by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA13920; Sat, 27 Jan 1996 21:42:37 -0500 Received: from [206.40.96.20] (randolph-18.peoples.net [206.40.96.20]) by peoples1.peoples.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA17125 for ; Sat, 27 Jan 1996 20:20:06 -0600 Message-Id: <199601280220.UAA17125@peoples1.peoples.net> To: Tariqas Subject: Mevlana on *Light* Date: Sat, 27 Jan 96 20:46:44 -0500 From: "Wm. Whitney" X-Mailer: E-Mail Connection v2.5.03 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: -- [ From: Wm. Whitney * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- Inspired by the recent Renga on *Light*, I consulted Dr. Ergin's new translation of the Bahr-I Recez with the following quotes. Please pardon the length, but, like most of my explorations with Mevlana, the path grew more and more intricate and wonderous. ------- Once you become the conserve of roses, You are food for the Soul, Light for the eyes. Pull your heart away from the rose. It is different now. ------- O my Light, I will do something today. I will turn around Your halo. Then I will give life to Love. Give something to the poor. ------ At morning, before the sun rises. Light sparkles on the glass dome of the sky. At night, the blood red glass of the west Comes from your blood stained arrows head. ------ O my eyes, light of my eyes, Wherever I go, You are with me. If you want to pull me toward the tavern, Make me drunk. Or pull me toward Nothingness. Annihilate me! ------ O Beloved, whose light Comes from behind the curtains, Your light and warmth Are like summer for us. Take us to the rose garden, Our Hearts are fiery like summer. ------ O our light, our wedding, our gathering! O our great kingdom! Boil our bitter water. Ferment our grapes That they may become wine. ------ You are the rose garden of the earth And the eyes and light of the universe. But when You step into the land of cruelty, You are all the sorrow and grief of the world. ------ O my beautiful, the One On whose face hundreds of sparks Of the light of mercy and kindness shine, My soul is overwhelmed at Your door >From the smell of musk and ambergris. ------ We came to the crossroad After a long walk, To be patient or give thanks for the blessing. But I cannot see these roads Without the light of Your face. ------ Love is the light of night. Separation prepares, matures you for union. O the One who walks on my chest, Union is the antidote of separation. ------ If you get rid of the smoke You will be enlightened with flame. Illuminate this and the other world With your light. ------ O light inside of the light, I will ask you a question! What spell do you cast That grief becomes joy? ------ Smile with the light of the earth, Be the wedding party of the earth. Leave mourning, reach security, Because patience is the key to suffering. ------ Escape from drowning in front Of the whirlpool of flesh. Existence and joy all come from That world which gives light To this six directional world. ------ Everyday we keep playing In front of this light like particles. Every night we turn to our Beloved Whose face is beautiful, like the moon. ------ A voice comes to the heart from flame, The flame-burning sun says, "Leave this light alone, so the light Of your soul will be awakened And illuminate the Universe." ------ "I am the moon, you are my light," he said. "You are the rose garden and water. I came from a long distance, Without shoes and without a turban." ------ A bunch of amazing people came from The light of upside-down oil lamps, And from behind the deep blue curtains To make the secret things known. ------ My soil turns into golden treasure With the brightness of your Sun. With your light, my wandering Thoughts gained wings. ------ You are just like a soul inside of my soul, Flowing secretly and stealthily. Oh, light of my garden, my meadow, You are walking and swaying like a cypress. ------ There is a moment you pull me To the mountain next to the garden. In order to open my eyes another time, You lead me to the source of light. ------ You are a new day, Full of fire, full of light. We are like the night after you. Wherever you stay, we come over there. No, no, do not do that. ------ A door opens to the truths Which have been in jail, A freshness, a light comes to The garden of Peonies. News appears about difficult subjects, Hard to understand before the last day. ------ Love is a light exalted, A secret river to be drank, Purified and flowing forever. A fire burning, never extinguished. ------ You turn into light Even if He burns you like oil. You become like hair from grief But they put you at the head Of the table like a candle. You illuminate the assemblies. ------ Because of Shems of Tebriz Know for sure that every particle Is the light of Certainty. If the whole thing was is talking and saying, Every particle would start talking. ------ There is a fire for every light, A thorn for every rose, There is a snake in the river To protect every treasure. O, the One whose rose garden Does not have thorns, O, the One whose clean light has no fire, There is no snake, snake bite Nor teeth around your treasure. ------ Noah was in the shape of a human, But he was the flood who wiped out humans. If there is a fire in one particle, It must be light in that particle. ------ I should be silent, What is the use of this candle In front of the One whose light Makes the sun and moon like a moth. I should extinguish this candle. ------ Panther Eagle paneagle@peoples.net From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sun Jan 28 03:37:05 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA17580; Sat, 27 Jan 1996 23:12:36 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id WAA28131; Sat, 27 Jan 1996 22:37:09 -0500 Received: from emout06.mail.aol.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id WAA28114; Sat, 27 Jan 1996 22:37:06 -0500 From: ASHA101@aol.com Received: by emout06.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA08226 for tariqas@europe.std.com; Sat, 27 Jan 1996 22:37:05 -0500 Date: Sat, 27 Jan 1996 22:37:05 -0500 Message-Id: <960127223702_305683944@emout06.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: RE: Lets get pragmatic Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: >>>Is it not time that we all worked together WITH each other rather than against each other??<<< Yes, let us think of each other as human beings and support each other, and not think of people as first Muslim, or Hindi, or Catholic ... so many sufis have thought this way ... >>>Can we utilize this forum to discuss more meaningful topics - the topics which have a direct impact on our day to day lives.<<< Yes, that which has a direct impact, like the old friend who found she has breast cancer, how can she be consouled, or the friend whose wife is battleing her old alcholism, how can we support him? How can we unfold all the bounty of Allah and discover the purpose of our lives. If we could only focus on what is moving us toward the light, and love it. If we could only unmask the flash of emotions behind the events of our everyday lives. >>>The project of making Islam a living force (a practical way of life) in the world is not just a matter of us seeking harmony in the internal world of mystical experience and total otherworldliness which will lead to nothing but intellectual laziness and empty ritualism.<<<< The sufis have a saying - head in the clouds and feet on the ground. I find this forum occasionally do the heavy work of looking at self and grappeling with love, and nitty gritty things like that. Instead of letting our minds ramble aimlessly on, the sufi thinks, "How can I become a rose garden, and become a blessing to all?" Asha From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sat Jan 27 05:35:56 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA01645; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 05:27:03 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id FAA06012; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 05:12:02 -0500 Received: from relay2.UU.NET by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id FAA05996; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 05:11:59 -0500 From: Jinavamsa@aol.com Received: from world.std.com by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP id QQaaha29196; Sat, 27 Jan 1996 00:41:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail04.mail.aol.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA21720; Sat, 27 Jan 1996 00:35:57 -0500 Received: by mail04.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id AAA11444 for tariqas@world.std.com; Sat, 27 Jan 1996 00:35:56 -0500 Date: Sat, 27 Jan 1996 00:35:56 -0500 Message-Id: <960127003556_207716517@mail04.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: "Special Layfolk" Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: For those who don't mind poems at this time: Holy time among Layfolk (humanity) Imagine this world busy with all of us beings appreciating the best in one another, and encouraging the expression of our deepest, most feeling and caring heartmindsoul? Jinavamsa From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sun Jan 28 12:09:03 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA14438; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 07:24:40 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id HAA11376; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 07:05:47 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id HAA11371; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 07:05:44 -0500 Received: from UNiX.asb.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA11757; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 07:01:51 -0500 Received: from asb18 (sls8.asb.com [165.254.128.18]) by UNiX.asb.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id HAA02161; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 07:09:03 -0500 Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 07:09:03 -0500 Message-Id: <199601281209.HAA02161@UNiX.asb.com> X-Sender: fhaddad@unix.asb.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: msa-ec@facteur.std.com, tariqas@world.std.com From: fhaddad@unix.asb.com (Fouad Haddad) Subject: [8] On dhikr (Remembrance of God) Cc: soc-religion-islam@telerama.lm.com X-Mailer: Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: [8] ON DHIKR (from NUZHAT AL-MAJALIS) Six Benefits of Dhikr (continued) 3. Dhikr of the Frogs David said - peace be upon him: "I shall praise God with a kind of praise that none among his creatures ever used before." Thereupon a frog called out to him: "Do you pride yourself before God for your praise, while for seventy years my tongue has been moist from remembering Him, and I have eaten nothing in the past ten nights because I kept busy uttering two words?" David said: "What are these two words?" The frog replied: "O Praiser of Thyself with every tongue, O remembered One in every place!" It is related in "Nuzhat al-nufus wa al-afkar" [The Recreation of Minds and Thoughts] that an angel once said to David: "O David, understand what the frog is saying!" whereupon he heard it saying: "Glory and praise to You to the farthest boundary of Your knowledge!" David said: "By the One Who made me a Prophet, verily I shall sing my Lord's praise in this way." The commentators have said that the frogs' words are: "Glory to the King, the Holy One!" (subhan al-malik al-quddus) while al-Baghawi has: "Glory to my Lord Most Holy!" (subhana rabbi al-quddus), and of `Ali's words - may God be well pleased with him - is "Glory to the One Who is worshipped in the abysses of the sea!" 4. Dhikr of the Prophet Jonah `Ali said - may God be well pleased with him: "In the time of Jonah - peace be upon him - was a frog which had lived past the age of four thousand years. It never rested from glorifying God. One day it said: "O my Lord, no-one glorifies You like I do!" Jonah said: "O my Lord, I say what it says!" and he said: "Glory to You by the number of times each of your creatures says "Glory to You," and glory to You by the number of times each of Your creatures does not say "Glory to You," and glory to You according to the expanse of Your knowledge and the light of Your countenance and the adornment of Your throne and the reach of Yours words!"* *Shaykh Hisham wrote in his "Angels Unveiled", chapter on Jonah: "And lo! Jonah verily was of those sent to warn when he fled unto the laden ship, and then drew lots and was of those rejected; and the whale swallowed him while he was blameworthy; and had he not been one of those who glorify God he would have tarried in its belly till the day when they are raised." (37:139-144) "God sent Jonah to the people of Nineveh in Iraq. He called them to God's message but they refused to listen to him. He was calling them night and day to no avail. Instead they harmed him and cursed him at every turn. This lasted for a long time. Jonah was unable to bear this situation any longer. He began to threaten them: "I am going to ask my Lord to send you a severe punishment which has never been seen before; to destroy your cities and burn your gardens; to make you barren and end your line." He then left them. "Slowly, his people began to feel the approach of punishment in their daily life. They began to realize that they had made a big mistake. "God is the Most Merciful; for at every moment in this world he will show His greatness and cause people to observe Him through many signs. He will do this by sending angels in order to direct the sincere, and, indeed, anyone who asks for guidance, to the light of happiness in life. God sent the people of Jonah the angels of Mercy and the angels of Safety in order to inspire their hearts to do good, and guide them to safety through the destruction that was descending on their heads. "Abraham was protected from Nimrod's fire by the intervention of the angel of snow and the angel of peace. In the immense heat of this great fire where he had been thrown, surrounded by great destruction from above, from below, and from every side, Abraham was saved and protected. This was a message from God to tell His people: "I can save whomever I wish from any harm, whenever I like, no matter how bad their situation is." "Jonah left his people in anger. They regretted what they had done to their prophet. Men, women, children, old people, and even the animals, both tame and wild, were heard and seen crying out, each in his own particular language. It was a tremendous event, and everyone asked for mercy and for the angels' intercession. "God Most Merciful, Most Powerful, and Most Beneficent took away the destruction and saved them through his angels from this great havoc. Meantime, Jonah boarded a ship and took to sea. A big storm broke, and the ship was being torn apart and about to sink. The crew decided to draw lots and throw out one passenger as an expiation for the sin which was bringing death upon their heads. When they drew Jonah's lot, they loathed to throw him because he was the prophet, so they drew lots again. Every time, however, his lot kept coming out. In the end Jonah threw himself overboard, and a great green whale came from the bottom of the ocean and swallowed him. "An angel appeared before the whale and instructed her not to crush Jonah but to keep him safe in her stomach. At that moment Jonah spoke to the angel and asked for his advice, saying: "Give me the glad tidings from your Lord. How did God teach you the knowledge of the Unseen?" "Because I don't commit sin," said the angel. Jonah said: "Advise me." The angel replied: "Be patient and not full of anger, for you are full of anger against your nation right now. Be a person who gives benefit, not harm -- for you were praying your Lord to destroy your people for harming you. Don't be happy with your pride and arrogance. Don't humiliate your nation with their sins, because you also have mistakes." "Inside the stomach of the green whale, Jonah went into prostration and said: "O God, I prostrated for you in a place where no-one before has prostrated. O God, you have drowned me in the oceans of hope, and caused me to forget the day of my death. O Lord, you are the possessor of my heart and of my secret. I am the drowned one, so catch me by the hand and save me. Relieve me with Your perfection and inspire me with Your love! Let the angels of mercy reach down to me and pull me, O You who accept the prayers of the needy in the darkness of punishment. O the unveiler and remover of difficulties and harm, here I am coming to You and adoring You. Do not keep me from Your presence. Forgive me." "God ordered the angel to move the whale through the farthest oceans of the world and take her to the saltiest, or most concentrated and deepest depths of the seas. There Jonah began to hear the praising of all whales, all fish, all corals and all creatures of the depths. Nothing remained except they praised God and lauded Him, and Jonah was praising Him also. "God created a saint whom he endowed with such great powers of praising and remembering that he did not need to eat or sleep. Instead, he spent all his time praying to God, chanting his praise, and making intercession for other human beings. God placed him in a room at the bottom of the ocean. There he perpetuated God's praise unhindered for hundred of years. When that saint died the angels brought him before God Who asked him: "O my beloved servant, shall I reward you according to your deeds or according to My forgiveness?" He replied: "O my Lord, according to my deeds, since you have granted that they consist solely in Your praise." The angels placed the saint's deeds on one side of the scale and on the other side they placed God's generosity to that saint. God's generosity weighed heavier, and the saint fell prostrate and speechless, begging for God's forgiveness. "The angel inspired Jonah to say: "O God, Most Exalted, no-one can thank You nor worship You as You deserve to be thanked and worshipped. You know the secrets and the deepest knowledge, You unveil everything hidden from Your servants, You know every slight matter in this world and the next, and accept the prayer from every creation, forgive me and accept me in Your presence as Your humble servant." "God revealed to Jonah the following: "And mention the Lord of the Whale Dhul-Nun, when he went off in anger and deemed that We had no power over him, but he cried out in the darkness, saying: There is no God save Thee. Be Thou glorified! Lo! I have been a wrongdoer. Then We heard his prayer and saved him from the anguish. Thus We save believers" (21:87-88). "Then God ordered the whale to throw Jonah out onto the sea-shore, and ordered the angel to tell Jonah: "This is God's mercy. He can send it on anyone He likes, even in the midst of the greatest destruction and the surest death, far from any help." Thus did God save Jonah, and the following story illustrates how God saves His people from the grip of destruction even against the greatest odds." Shaykh Hisham Kabbani, "Angels Unveiled: A Sufi Perspective" (Chicago: KAZI Publications, 1995). Blessings and Peace on the Prophet, his Family, and his Companions Fouad Haddad Naqshbandi-Haqqani Foundation of Ahl al-Sunna wal-Jama`a URL: http://www.best.com/~informe/mateen/haqqani.html [in 9 languages] From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sun Jan 28 11:09:34 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA22044; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 11:41:05 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id LAA02383; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 11:16:04 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id LAA02347; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 11:15:59 -0500 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA09216; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 11:10:34 -0500 Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 11:10:34 +0001 (EST) From: Steve H Rose Subject: Re: MER list (fwd) To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Assalamu alaikum. I got a response which appears to be from a person, not a computer. Insh'Allah, they will attempt to clear up this problem. Yours, habib rose ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 11:06:18 +0001 (EST) From: Steve H Rose To: MIDDLEEAST@aol.com Subject: Re: MER list Assalamu alaikum. On Sat, 27 Jan 1996 MIDDLEEAST@aol.com wrote: > To be removed or added from the MER distribution list please send a message > from the email account you wish removed. We did not find your address on > our list. > The address you have been sending to is for a discussion list on spiritual topics. It may be in your distribution list as either tariqas@facteur.std.com or tariqas@world.std.com I don't know how to send you a message FROM that address because it is a list, not my personal account. Your assistance with this matter is greatly appreciated. With wishes for a good Ramadan, habib rose host of the tariqas discussion list From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sun Jan 28 11:32:53 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA27420; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 11:55:14 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id LAA04787; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 11:36:25 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id LAA04754; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 11:36:20 -0500 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA19324; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 11:33:53 -0500 Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 11:33:53 +0001 (EST) From: Steve H Rose Subject: RE: Lets get pragmatic To: tariqas@facteur.std.com In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Assalamu alaikum. On Sat, 27 Jan 1996 hanif@gharib.demon.co.uk wrote: > Aslaam, > > I agree with Br Zafar. It is a shame that we, the Muslims are split and > defragmented over virtually everything. This is even more evident on the > net. Just take a look at the newsgroup formations. You will see that when > it comes to voting ,the Hindus, Jews and others stick together > irrespective of their personal agendas (not that this wrong). Whenever it > comes to us Muslims voting, it is the Muslims who vote against each other. > As someone who in the past was very active in progressive Jewish politics, it is my experience that while some Jews do "stick together" for various reasons (group identity, fear etc.), other Jews do not. But, for the most part, those Jews that do not "buy the party line" are not represented in official Jewish organizations (or official Jewish newsgroups) -- and therefore tend to not be recognized as Jewish by the general public. Thus, there is a perception that "they" all stick together. If you know anything about Israeli politics, you will realize that there is Amazing variation in political perspectives which are openly discussed and share power in the Knesset -- MUCH wider than in the U.S. (where we have a choice of Republicrats and Demolicans :-). My guess is that Hindus have an extremely wide range of political perspectives as well -- from nonviolent activists such as Mahatma Gandhi to pro-American "moderates" to terrorists. Very often when you are looking at a group from the outside, it looks like there is a great deal of unity -- whereas from up close, you see the many divisions. This may come as a surprise to you, but my perception is that most Americans, at least, think of Muslims as having tremendous unity (especially before the Gulf War, but even today). This impression is based on ignorance, which, Insh'Allah, is being alleviated to some extent, but is nonetheless a factor in public attitudes (it is a lot easier to bomb the water supply of a city and consider it a great military victory if you have dehumanized the inhabitants to a "them") Yours, habib rose From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sun Jan 28 11:47:30 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA05828; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 12:14:43 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id LAA06205; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 11:52:09 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id LAA06194; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 11:52:07 -0500 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24889; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 11:48:30 -0500 Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 11:48:30 +0001 (EST) From: Steve H Rose Subject: Re: Lets get pragmatic To: tariqas@facteur.std.com In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Assalamu alaikum. On Fri, 26 Jan 1996, Zafar Siddiqui wrote: > Assalamualaikum brothers and sisters, > > I am sure the Kuffar must be beaming with glee on seeing the Muslims > indulging in hair-splitting. We all know that hair-splitting can cause > myopia (sp?) and this will make us loose our enemy from our eyesight! What are Kuffar? > > Can we utilize this forum to discuss more meaningful topics - the topics > which have a direct impact on our day to day lives. We have a huge number > of challenges arrayed against us in the world today. While the Muslims are > taking solace in the fact that Islam is the fastest growing religion in > the west, they are totally oblivious to the fact that we are at a > standstill when it comes to growing religiously. We are losing our young > generation to the unislamic ways much faster than we are gaining > converts. We need to view Islam as a mission and a becoming. We need to > provide Islamic answers, Islamic insights, Islalmic analyses, Islamic > world views, Islamic political outlook, to all the problems to which > Muslims, and modern man in general, are confronted. The project of > making Islam a living force (a practical way of life) in the world is not > just a matter of us seeking harmony in the internal world of mystical > experience and total otherworldliness which will lead to nothing but > intellectual laziness and empty ritualism. Nor it is just a matter of > halal and haram but also a matter of articulating the vision of Tawhid in > all spheres of life and thought. > > Therefore, I request that we discuss the problems that we are faced with > in the West and their possible solutions. I don't know how to respond to this post, and to the suggested line of discussion. So, I thought I'd share my uncertainty with the group. On the one hand, tariqas is intended for discussion of spiritual topics. I know if we get too much into discussion of political issues that the tone of the group will change into one of argument rather than sharing. On the other hand, it is my belief that spirituality, if real, is integrated into every part of our lives -- our decisions about our work, our politics, our consumer behavior etc. That seems to be precisely the sort of topic that brother Zafar is suggesting. So, I'm not sure what to say or do. I guess my first inclination is to encourage sharing by people about integrating our spirituality with today's political and economic challenges -- and ask people to try to avoid outright arguments about political issues. But, I would like to ask for help and direction from the members of this group (and, of course, from Allah). One last point -- please do not assume that all members of tariqas are muslims, or are all muslims in the same sense. This group has always been open to people involved in a wide range of spiritual paths. It is not specifically an Islamic discussion list. Yours, habib rose host of tariqas From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sun Jan 28 21:21:24 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA20998; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 16:38:41 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id QAA29991; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 16:14:09 -0500 Received: from UNiX.asb.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id QAA29986; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 16:13:59 -0500 Received: from asb34 (sls24.asb.com [165.254.128.34]) by UNiX.asb.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA10047; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 16:21:24 -0500 Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 16:21:24 -0500 Message-Id: <199601282121.QAA10047@UNiX.asb.com> X-Sender: fhaddad@unix.asb.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@facteur.std.com, msa-ec@world.std.com From: fhaddad@unix.asb.com (Fouad Haddad) Subject: Recommended sufi books Cc: soc-religion-islam@telerama.lm.com X-Mailer: Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: >can anyone recommend me good books on tasawwuf for a beginner like myself? >all suggestions are most appreciated. The following books related to tasawwuf in English are recommended: As a very general and easy introduction there is this handsome illustrated booklet: - "Sufism: The Alchemy of the Heart" The Little Wisdom Library. San Fransisco: Chronicle Books, 1993. hardback. I. Books related to the person and manners of the Prophet (s) Many masters have defined the essence of tasawwuf as the knowledge of the states of the Prophet (s). The best book in English on this topic is: - "Muhammad Messenger of Allah: ash-shifa of Qadi Iyad" Trans. Aishah Abdarrahman Bewley Granada, Spain: Madinah Press, 1991. hardback. There is also the following book on the physical characteristics of the Prophet (s). The English is not always readable, but it is a useful and unique compilation of a very specific kind of authentic hadiths: - "Shamaa'il Tirmidhi" [Hadiths on the Prophet's Characteristics compiled by Tirmidhi] Trans. Shaykh Muhammad Zakariyya Kandhelwi Delhi: New Era Publishers, 1994. hardback. U.S. and U.K. editions widely available. On love of the Prophet (s) there is the following invaluable small book (out-of-print): - "Muhammad the Beloved Prophet" by Muhammad Iqbal Trans. Khurshid Ahmad, Aftab Ahmad Montreal, Canada: Aftab Ahmad 1989, PO Box 273, Cartierville, Montreal, Quebec, Canada H4K 2J6. paper. To many the best biographical work on the Prophet (s) in English is: - "Muhammad: His Life From the Earliest Sources" by Martin Lings 0-04-297042-3. hardback. II. Books related to the sayings of the sufi masters: Of classical sufism: - "Revelations of the Unseen" by Abd al-Qadir al-Jilani Trans. Muhtar Holland Houston: al-Baz Publishing, 1992. paper. - "The Book of Knowledge" by al-Ghazali Trans. Nabih A. Faris ISBN 0-935782-54-0. hardback. - "Inner Dimensions of Islamic Worship" by al-Ghazali Trans. Muhtar Holland ISBN 0-86037-125-5. paper. - "Principles of Sufism by al-Qushayri Trans. B.R. von Schlegell ISBN 0-933782-20-9. paper. - "The Way of Sufi Chivalry" by al-Sulami 0-89281-317-2. paper. Of contemporary sufism: - "The Naqshbandi Sufi Way: History and Guidebook of the Saints of the Golden Chain" by Shaykh Muhammad Hisham Kabbani Chicago: KAZI Publications, 1994. Heavily illustrated, hardback. - "Mercy Oceans" Books 1-7 by Shaykh Nazim al-Qubrusi reprints by KAZI Publications. paper. - "Irshad: Wisdom of a Sufi Master" by Shaykh Muzaffer Ozak Pir Books. hardback. - "Love is the Wine" by Shaykh Muzaffer. Pir Books. paper. - "A Sufi Saint of the Twentieth Century: Shaykh Ahmad al-Alawi" by Martin Lings George Allen & Unwin, 1973. paper. - "Letters of a Sufi Master: The Shaikh al-`Arabi al-Darqawi" Trans. Titus Burckhardt Bedfont, U.K.: Perennial Books, 1987. paper. - "Key to the Garden" by Shaykh Habib Ahmad Mashhur al-Haddad (d. 1995) Trans. Mostafa al-Badawi London: Quilliam Press, 1990. paper. - "The Book of Assistance" by Imam Abd Allah ibn Alawi al-Haddad (d. 1720) Trans. Mostafa al-Badawi London: Quilliam Press, 1989. paper. and many more. Blessings and Peace on the Prophet, his family, and his Companions Fouad Haddad Naqshbandi-Haqqani Foundation of Ahl al-Sunna wal-Jama`a From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sun Jan 28 21:29:56 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA01972; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 17:07:12 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id QAA02745; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 16:36:30 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id QAA02738; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 16:36:28 -0500 Received: from mail.nyc.pipeline.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA17950; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 16:30:07 -0500 Received: from pipe4.nyc.pipeline.com (sbryquer@pipe4.nyc.pipeline.com [198.80.32.44]) by mail.nyc.pipeline.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA20733 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 16:29:59 -0500 (EST) From: Simon Bryquer Received: (sbryquer@localhost) by pipe4.nyc.pipeline.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id QAA05027; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 16:29:56 -0500 Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 16:29:56 -0500 Message-Id: <199601282129.QAA05027@pipe4.nyc.pipeline.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Pragmatic Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: I'm reposting this because for some it was transmitted in code. At least when I received it. On Sun, 28 Jan 1996 Steve H Rose said: >One last point -- please do not assume that all members of tariqas are muslims, >or are all muslims in the same sense. This group has always been open to >people involved in a wide range of spiritual paths. It is not specifically an >Islamic discussion list. > >Yours, > >habib rose >host of tariqas This last paragraph is, in my POV, the key of this group and thus something like MIDDLEEAST and the thrust of the original post Pragmatic-- (which certainly is important and worthwhile, but from everything that is described in the Welcome Tariqas Note, in a different and more appropriate forum where the subscribers and etc might indeed welcome it) -- would take the thread, without doubt, in directions that I believe the majority of this group may not want to go. I also believe, no matter what arguments are presented, that Tariqas should not be politicized, for if perchance it is, it will lose its essence as well the essence of what striving to be be on the 'Path' truly represents in all its multi-faceted layers of seeking and aspirations. And if someone says that all life is political, and the Spiritual life being the key -- why not politics. Because Politics are temporal, the Spirit is not, though the path must be practical only in as much as it teaches to deal with the Eternal. Best, Simon Bryquer From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sun Jan 28 21:52:47 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA06308; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 17:18:01 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id QAA04166; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 16:52:52 -0500 Received: from relay3.UU.NET by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id QAA04158; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 16:52:50 -0500 From: RHMH@aol.com Received: from mail06.mail.aol.com by relay3.UU.NET with SMTP id QQaanf11025; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 16:52:49 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail06.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA16048 for tariqas@europe.std.com; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 16:52:47 -0500 Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 16:52:47 -0500 Message-Id: <960128154725_306055440@mail06.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Clinton on Ramadan Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: In a message dated 96-01-27 20:19:33 EST, you write: > >Salaam Alaikum: > I am as cynical as anyone about anything a politician (especially >an American politician) says, but I am inclined to agree with your >thoughts on accepting this message from Clinton as a positive act. It >is just nice to get positive words about us from the non-Muslim world >(not that my identity is dependant upon their recognition of my >religion). > Sister Natalie > > Dear Sister Natalie, and with you be peace, I am a non-Muslim who feels that Islam is an incredibly wondrous and beautiful path, but find that it becomes very difficult to express the respect I have (for Mohammed) and the gratitude I feel (when I contemplate his life and teachings) around Muslims. This sincere regard is treated by more adamant Muslims as being not only small, but often with anger that a non-Muslim would dare say anything about Islam (even if it is positive), or an attempt to correct my path. Perhaps it's partly due to the cynical attitude you profess to, which keeps the postitive words from non-Muslims so rare. I know I would feel much more inclined to express my heart if the response was more friendly. There are the exceptions... the Muslims who express how much Islam has brought to their life, who are happy that Islam has touched mine in some way, and their hope that the blessings may continue and deepen in all our lives... but alas, that type of response is far too rare... May the peace and blessings of Allah be with you, ~r From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Mon Jan 29 03:20:18 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA19834; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 23:05:04 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id WAA11668; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 22:27:23 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id WAA11658; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 22:27:21 -0500 Received: from nova.unix.portal.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA02684; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 22:21:36 -0500 Received: from jobe.shell.portal.com (jobe.shell.portal.com [156.151.3.4]) by nova.unix.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) with ESMTP id TAA16888 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 19:20:20 -0800 Received: (tyagi@localhost) by jobe.shell.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) id TAA07713 for tariqas@world.std.com; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 19:20:19 -0800 Message-Id: <199601290320.TAA07713@jobe.shell.portal.com> Subject: Muslims, muslims and tact To: tariqas@world.std.com (Tariqas Elist) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 19:20:18 -0800 (PST) From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (Haramullah) Orientation: House of Kaos, St. Joseph, Kali Fornika, US -- Kali Yuga X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 5613 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: A 49960128 Peace be with you, my kin. RHMH@aol.com wrote: |I am a non-Muslim I would not be so sure to exclude myself unless you mean by 'non-Muslim' 'one who does not practice the 5 Pillars of Islam'. There are those who follow the Merciful One's will outside this straight and narrow road, though in many cases only they can know that Allah is blowing the wind into their sail. |who feels that Islam is an incredibly wondrous and beautiful path, I enjoy it described this way, and I continue to enjoy discovering its facets (as a single gem refracts an infinity of scintillations). |but find that it becomes very difficult to express the respect I have |(for Mohammed) and the gratitude I feel (when I contemplate his life |and teachings) around Muslims. There are many possibilities here, and I feel that cyberspace offers us unusual opportunities with respect to them. One possibility is that you are not yet aware of the *means of communication* which is used by Muslims, and thus stumble upon tactless blunders hitting hot buttons without knowing of your error. This is not really your fault, but, if you wish to communicate with someone, then knowing how they speak with their friends and kin is of inestimable value. Another possibility is that you are merely misplaced, that you have frequented the conservative crowds when you are a more liberal and controversial figure. The best Muslims will accept you in any case if your heart is pure. There comes a time when ideas get in the way of compassion. I have found my connection with Muslims through Sufis (such as the Naqshbandis) and have always felt their sincere respect of my sometimes foolish blatherings. That 'tact' I was talking with you about? Well it is taking me a long time to learn it in regards Middle-Easterners, and I think that IRC's #islam and #sufism (the latter less often open) have been somewhat helpful, a few times I met with a brother in #islam who took the time and patience to explain the bluster I sometimes received from regular denizens. |This sincere regard is treated by more adamant Muslims as being not |only small, but often with anger that a non-Muslim would dare say |anything about Islam (even if it is positive), or an attempt to |correct my path. I have found amongst the religious a strand of 'path-correction' which I at times find disturbing, and yet once one gets used to it (a kind of spiritual nosiness amongst a family) I think there are ways of bypassing the conflict (if not the initial reaction). One way is to guard my words carefully, being sure that my meaning is completely understood (hard to do when I am sometimes using Arabic terms to express and I don't speak the language! ;>). When I don't think I'll be heard, then I withhold my speech. In this way I do not lump all Muslims together nor do I give my Muslim kin headaches by my strayings and footslippings. I am often too strong-headed for their assistance and find advice trying at times (it is a failing on *my* part, even while in my culture I was taught it was rude to offer such advice unasked). |Perhaps it's partly due to the cynical attitude ... which keeps the |postitive words from non-Muslims so rare. Hmmm, I have not found a cynical attitude. More often I have simply found hubris and arrogance (as well as when I look inward!), people telling me they are True Muslims (I cannot make this claim), that they have found the Righteous Path of Allah (I cannot be so bold) and that they are Sufis (!) (this last I sometimes find amusing when placed in the context of *attainment* -- usually those who utilize it as identification mean something other than accomplishment, however). |I know I would feel much more inclined to express my heart if the |response was more friendly. I really know the feeling! I have ventured into several different religious groups (Muslim, Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, others) and have not always been sufficiently circumspect to protect my hosts from getting their sensibilities and knowledges upset. At these times I try to make myself as unknowing and humble as possible and yet defend my honor and what I take to be God with as little conflict as possible. Note that online I am much more vehement and combative! ;> |There are the exceptions... the Muslims who express how much Islam |has brought to their life, who are happy that Islam has touched mine |in some way, and their hope that the blessings may continue and |deepen in all our lives... Ah yes, the deep heart. These people can sometimes be very rare, and, I feel there is something in acceptance of another's knowledge about *themselves and their path* which is part of the deen of islam (at least for me). That is, it is unconditional love which is offered to you, whatever you may be and wherever you may be going. Some have the capacity to offer this within certain circumstances even to strangers. Perhaps the saints have perfected the way of compassion as a model. |but alas, that type of response is far too rare... a desert oh this world full to the brim with sand specks of fear and hatred drift within the sand drying it out but for the oases of life and love! but for the bountiful givers of Allah's Most Precious Wisdom That Love of All Freely Offered I would wither away surely now THAT is reward of a lifetime the quiet stop in a hurried rush the kind word in the midst of strife the support in an alien landscape such things are blessings indeed! May Allah keep you well and comfort you as you deserve, Haramullah tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Mon Jan 29 16:21:26 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA00074; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 12:22:49 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id LAA19469; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:21:27 -0500 Received: from tymix.Tymnet.COM by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id LAA19454; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:21:23 -0500 Received: by tymix.Tymnet.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10113; Mon, 29 Jan 96 08:20:58 PST Received: from antares by tymix.Tymnet.COM (in.smtpd); 29 Jan 96 8:20:58 PST Received: from kirin.Tymnet.COM by antares.Tymnet.COM (8.6.5/UCB) id IAA26637; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 08:20:57 -0800 Received: by kirin.Tymnet.COM (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA12574; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 08:21:26 -0800 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 08:21:26 -0800 From: mmoore@antares.Tymnet.COM (Michael J. Moore) Message-Id: <9601291621.AA12574@kirin.Tymnet.COM> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: PROF. AL-MASS'ARI & "THE SAUDI CESSPIT" - MER Special #7 X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: > > M I D - E A S T R E A L I T I E S > S P E C I A L > > [To receive MER regularly please send a message to It looks to me like we are not being given a choice. -Michael- From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Mon Jan 29 17:41:36 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA03629; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 13:38:13 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id MAA05153; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 12:58:24 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id MAA05133; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 12:58:20 -0500 Received: from mail-e.bcc.ac.uk by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA02753; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 12:52:18 -0500 Received: from link-1.ts.bcc.ac.uk by mail-e.bcc.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Mon, 29 Jan 1996 17:41:40 +0000 Message-Id: <167313.9601291741@link-1.ts.bcc.ac.uk> Subject: Path of Hearts To: tariqas@world.std.com Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 17:41:36 +0000 (GMT) From: Ahmad Sheikh X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 751 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: A Assalam Alaikum I am not quite sure what do you mean by 'path of hearts', in your introduction of the list. As for as I understand, it was the path to 'God' on which sufis embarked and heart was no more then one of the five internal senses (not even the superior most); a sort of reciever that had to be tuned to catch the right frequency. Furthermore I cannot make much sense of 'flying hearts' (logo of Hazrat Innayat Khan) as for as my understanding goes, hearts do not fly, it the Rooh (one of its two forms) that does leave the body during he flight. Wa Assalam Ahmad Sheikh Chemical Engineering Department University College London London WC1E 7JE Tel : + 44 171 419 3806 Fax : + 44 171 383 2348 E-mail : ahmad.sheikh@ucl.ac.uk From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Mon Jan 29 12:39:53 1996 Received: from relay1.UU.NET by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA14417; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 18:44:18 -0500 Received: from europe.std.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP id QQaare03996; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 18:42:22 -0500 (EST) Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id RAA18231; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 17:42:45 -0500 Received: from relay6.UU.NET by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id RAA18220; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 17:42:41 -0500 From: heart@access.digex.net Received: from access5.digex.net by relay6.UU.NET with SMTP id QQaapm19960; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 07:41:09 -0500 (EST) Received: (from heart@localhost) by access5.digex.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA12279 ; for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 07:39:53 -0500 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 07:39:53 -0500 (EST) To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Yusuf Ali translation In-Reply-To: <960127212903_129132291@emout04.mail.aol.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: I suppose I was/am confused about the difference between something being copyrighted vs. in the public domain. For instance, when it comes to literature, many classics are in the public domain. I interpret this as that one can publish the work without paying royalties, however I don't think that means the publisher can change the text at will. So I can't imagine a publisher taking a work by Melville, changing it and still selling it as Melville. By public domain, I mean that the copyright has expired. I think in the U.S. it expires after 17+ years or so. No lawyer am I! And of course what little I do know is U.S. centered, but the Y.A. translation I have is from a U.S. publisher (Amana I believe). Yes please if there anyone can shed light on this matter I would appreciate it. Ghina On Sat, 27 Jan 1996 Jinavamsa@aol.com wrote: > >Does anyone own the copyright to Y.A.'s translation and commentary? Even > >if it is in the public domain, I can't see that anyone can change > >whatever they want and still publish it as a Y.A. version. > >ghina > dear ghina, > I have a copy here (from the library) of Abdullah Yusuf Ali's text, > translation, and commentary, The meaning of the Glorious Qur'an, in 2 > [bilingual, Arabic and English] volumes. The publisher here is given as Dar > Al-kitab Al-Masri (Cairo Egypt) and Dar Al-kitab Allubnani (Beirut Lebanon). > Above that information is the statement: > "All rights reserved to the publishers." > The first ed. is 1934. I have here the 3rd ed., 1938. (I don't know enough > law, esp. international copyright law, to know what this means in terms of > 1996 issues. Perhaps someone knows if there were renewals of the copyrights > between then and now) > So maybe someone else can continue this thread, if interested. > I hope that helps a little with your concern. > Jinavamsa > > > From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Mon Jan 29 23:25:38 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28028; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 19:12:39 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id SAA24187; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 18:24:22 -0500 Received: from fastmail.worldweb.net by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id SAA24177; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 18:24:19 -0500 Received: from dns.worldweb.net (dns.worldweb.net [204.117.218.2]) by fastmail.worldweb.net (8.7.2/8.7.2) with SMTP id SAA02562 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 18:27:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from JIM ([204.117.218.115]) by dns.worldweb.net with SMTP; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 19:41:18 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960129232538.002e8698@worldweb.net> X-Sender: jmccaig@worldweb.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 18:25:38 -0500 To: tariqas@facteur.std.com, tariqas@world.std.com From: James McCaig Subject: Re: Path of Hearts Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: At 05:41 PM 1/29/96 +0000, Ahmad Sheikh wrote: Dear Ahmad Sheikh, Below, in Hazrat Inayat Khan's own words is an explanation of the emblem of the Sufi Movement. Warm regards, >Furthermore I cannot make much sense of 'flying hearts' (logo of >Hazrat Innayat Khan) as for as my understanding goes, hearts do not >fly, it the Rooh (one of its two forms) that does leave the body >during he flight. > "The symbol of the Sufi Movement is a heart with wings. It explains that the heart is between soul and body, a medium between spirit and matter. When the soul is covered by its love for matter, it is naturally attracted to matter. This is the law of gravitation in abstract form, as it is said in the Bible, "Where your treasure is, there your heart will be also." When man treasures the things of the earth, his heart is drawn to the earth. But the heart is subject not only to gravitation, but also to attraction from on high, and as in Egyptian symbology wings are the symbol of spiritual progress, so the heart with wings expresses that the heart reaches upward towards heaven. The crescent in the heart suggests the responsiveness of the heart. The crescent represents the responsiveness of the crescent moon to the light of the sun, for naturally it receives the light, which develops it until it becomes the full moon. The principal teaching of Sufism is that of learning to become a pupil, for it is the pupil who has a chance of becoming a teacher, and once a person considers that he is a teacher, his responsiveness is gone. The greatest teachers in the world have been the greatest pupils. It is this principle which is represented by the crescent: the crescent in the heart signifies that the heart which is responsive to the light of God is illuminated. The five-pointed star represents the Divine Light. For when the light comes, it has five points; when it returns, it has four, the former suggesting creation, the latter annihilation. The five-pointed star also represents the natural figure of man, though that with four points represents all forms of the world. But the form with five points is a development of the four-pointed form. For instance, if a man is standing with his legs joined and arms extended he makes a four-pointed form, but when a man shows activity- dancing, jumping, or moving one leg- he forms a five-pointed star, which represents a beginning of activity; in other words, a beginning of life. It is the Divine Light which is represented by the five-pointed star, and the star is reflected in the heart which is responsive to the Divine Light. The heart which by its response has received the Divine Light is liberated, as the wings show. In brief, the meaning of the symbol is that the heart responsive to the Light of God is liberated." Maharaj James McCaig | Sufi Center of Washington Brotherhood/Sisterhood Representative | Keepers of Sufi Center Bookstore United States | http://guess.worldweb.net/sufi jmccaig@worldweb.net From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue Jan 30 02:43:10 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA17038; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 19:43:31 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id SAA27008; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 18:50:23 -0500 Received: from host.taconic.net by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id SAA26990; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 18:50:19 -0500 From: omegapub@taconic.net Received: from ch_anx_p24.taconic.net by host.taconic.net; (5.65/1.1.8.2/13Jul95-1105AM) id AA04500; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 18:52:00 -0500 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 96 18:43:10 PST Subject: Re: Yusuf Ali translation To: tariqas@facteur.std.com X-Mailer: Chameleon V0.05, TCP/IP for Windows, NetManage Inc. Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: I am not a copyright expert, but can shed at least a little light on this discussion; again, this is all U.S. based information, and other countries may not follow the same law. Prior to the 1976 copyright law revision, the term of copyright lasted 28 years and could be renewed once for a total protection of 56 years. The 1976 law offers protection for the life of the author plus 50 years. During the period of copyright protection, copies may not be produced of the work in whole or in part, with the exception of brief quotations in reviews and other similar uses considered "fair use", without the permission of the holder of the copyright. Frequently these rights are licensed, with a royalty or licensing fee paid to the owner of the rights. This restriction does generally apply to publishing the text electronically, or to quoting sections of a protected work over e-mail discussion groups such as tariqas. After the period of protection the work is considered in the public domain, although in publishing circles there are some works which are still considered informally the property of whomever has had them in print for all the years of protection, and it is not considered good manners to rush out the day after protection is legally over and issue a competing edition; there have been cases of large publishers trying to take away the market which a small publisher has carefully cultivated for years, and it leaves a rather sour taste to see this happen... As for changing the text, and not owning the changes made, I think this is just unethical; how it is treated in legal circles I am not sure. Hope this is of some help, and perhaps others will add further understanding. If anyone reading this has a good familiarity with copyright as it applies to musical works and recordings, I would like to discuss a situation with you; please e-mail me privately. Thanks. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Abi'l-Khayr E-mail: omegapub@taconic.net Date: 01/29/96 Time: 18:43:10 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Mon Jan 29 14:21:32 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA21057; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 21:24:51 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id UAA12080; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 20:43:01 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id UAA12075; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 20:42:58 -0500 Received: from relay1.UU.NET by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA17823; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 20:35:12 -0500 Received: from UNiX.asb.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP id QQaapt06425; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 09:15:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from asb16 (sls9.asb.com [165.254.128.19]) by UNiX.asb.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA06978; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 09:21:32 -0500 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 09:21:32 -0500 Message-Id: <199601291421.JAA06978@UNiX.asb.com> X-Sender: fhaddad@unix.asb.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: msa-ec@facteur.std.com, tariqas@world.std.com From: fhaddad@unix.asb.com (Fouad Haddad) Subject: [9] On dhikr (Remembrance of God) Cc: soc-religion-islam@telerama.lm.com X-Mailer: Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: [9] ON DHIKR (from NUZHAT AL-MAJALIS) Six Benefits of Dhikr (continued) 5. The Plagues of Egypt The frog in a dream represents the righteous person. The frog poured water over Abraham's fire - peace be upon him - to help put it out. As for a multitude of frogs, they represent punishment. The Exalted said: "So We sent them the flood and the locusts and the vermin and the frogs and the blood-a succession of clear signs. But they were arrogant and became guilty" (7:133). Al-Razi said: "... The nation of Pharaoh said to Moses - peace be upon him: "Whatever signs you bring us, to us it is nothing other than mere magic and we shall not believe in you." Moses invoked God against them, and God sent down the flood upon them day and night. They sought help from Pharaoh, who sought help from Moses, who sought help from God. God then withheld the rain from them and sent down the winds. The earth the sprouted vegetation and fruit in over-abundance. When they saw this they said: "This is what we were anxious about, and in fact it is a great good for us!" and they disbelieved again. God then sent the locusts upon them, and they ate up all the vegetation until hardship became and the sun was covered by the swarm of the locusts. They sought help from Moses who sought help from his Lord. God then sent on the locusts a wind which hurled them into the sea. At this they said: "Whatever is left from what we had planted is enough for us," and they disbelieved again. God then sent the lice upon them. Sa`id ibn Jubayr said: "This is the maggot which issues from wheat." Tha`labi said: "It is a kind of tick." `Ata' al-Khurasani said: "It is the well-known lice, and it was said that it means mosuitoes, and also wingless locusts." These did not leave a single green leaf except it ate it, and something like smallpox smote their bodies. They sought help from Moses who sought help from his Lord. God sent a hot wind which burnt the lice. They still did not believe, so God sent upon them a swarm of frogs like a pitch-dark night. The frogs entered their plantations, their food, and their beds cubit by cubit. They sought help from Moses again, and he sought help from his Lord. God caused the frogs to die and he sent down rain which carried them to the sea. They still disbelieved. God then sent down blood upon them so that their rivers ran red with blood. It is also said that God inflicted a state of permanent nosebleed upon them. For seven days they drank blood. Then they said: "O Moses, if you remove the filth (al-rijz) from us verily we shall pledge our belief for you." [Cf. 7:134: "If thou removest the terror from us we verily will trust thee and will let the Children of Israel go with thee."] Sa`eed ibn Jabir said that the "filth" (or "terror") was a sixth kind of punishment which is the plague, while others said that it is an expression for the five kinds already mentioned. Al-Razi said - and this is the strongest opinion: "Wahb said that they underwent each affliction for a period of forty days." Blessings and Peace on the Prophet, his Family, and his Companions Fouad Haddad Naqshbandi-Haqqani Foundation of Ahl al-Sunna wal-Jama`a URL: http://www.best.com/~informe/mateen/haqqani.html [in 9 languages] From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Mon Jan 29 22:00:02 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA03551; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 23:51:16 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id XAA01759; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 23:15:16 -0500 Received: from relay2.UU.NET by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id XAA01740; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 23:15:11 -0500 Received: from access5.digex.net by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP id QQaaqy03089; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 17:00:05 -0500 (EST) Received: (from tbear@localhost) by access5.digex.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA18131 ; for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 17:00:03 -0500 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 17:00:02 -0500 (EST) From: Abdkabir To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Lets get pragmatic In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Habib Rose, thanks for your reply to the message below. My two cents: such a plea for a change of agenda, as the one copied below, for what it's worth to mention, have all the signs and buzzwords (e.g., "Islamic political perspective") of the sort of Muslims who are *extremely* hostile to Sufism, and whom, I sense are here undertaking to shift this group's focus to an agenda which needs and wants nothing from Sufism. They use the word "brother" in their posts, but they have no brotherly feelings towards any Muslim who does not think like them, especially on politics. These people are not the first, and probably not the last, to attempt to get this list used, to coopt it, for their own covert agendas. On Sun, 28 Jan 1996, Steve H Rose wrote: > Assalamu alaikum. > > On Fri, 26 Jan 1996, Zafar Siddiqui wrote: > > > Assalamualaikum brothers and sisters, > > > > I am sure the Kuffar must be beaming with glee on seeing the Muslims > > indulging in hair-splitting. We all know that hair-splitting can cause > > myopia (sp?) and this will make us loose our enemy from our eyesight! > > What are Kuffar? > > > > > Can we utilize this forum to discuss more meaningful topics - the topics > > which have a direct impact on our day to day lives. We have a huge number > > of challenges arrayed against us in the world today. While the Muslims are > > taking solace in the fact that Islam is the fastest growing religion in > > the west, they are totally oblivious to the fact that we are at a > > standstill when it comes to growing religiously. We are losing our young > > generation to the unislamic ways much faster than we are gaining > > converts. We need to view Islam as a mission and a becoming. We need to > > provide Islamic answers, Islamic insights, Islalmic analyses, Islamic > > world views, Islamic political outlook, to all the problems to which > > Muslims, and modern man in general, are confronted. The project of > > making Islam a living force (a practical way of life) in the world is not > > just a matter of us seeking harmony in the internal world of mystical > > experience and total otherworldliness which will lead to nothing but > > intellectual laziness and empty ritualism. Nor it is just a matter of > > halal and haram but also a matter of articulating the vision of Tawhid in > > all spheres of life and thought. > > > > Therefore, I request that we discuss the problems that we are faced with > > in the West and their possible solutions. > > I don't know how to respond to this post, and to the suggested line of > discussion. So, I thought I'd share my uncertainty with the group. > > On the one hand, tariqas is intended for discussion of spiritual topics. > I know if we get too much into discussion of political issues that the > tone of the group will change into one of argument rather than sharing. > > On the other hand, it is my belief that spirituality, if real, is > integrated into every part of our lives -- our decisions about our work, > our politics, our consumer behavior etc. That seems to be precisely the > sort of topic that brother Zafar is suggesting. > > So, I'm not sure what to say or do. I guess my first inclination is to > encourage sharing by people about integrating our spirituality with > today's political and economic challenges -- and ask people to try to > avoid outright arguments about political issues. But, I would like to ask > for help and direction from the members of this group (and, of course, > from Allah). > > One last point -- please do not assume that all members of tariqas are > muslims, or are all muslims in the same sense. This group has always > been open to people involved in a wide range of spiritual paths. It is > not specifically an Islamic discussion list. > > Yours, > > habib rose > host of tariqas > From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue Jan 30 04:59:43 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA09144; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 00:04:31 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id AAA08110; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 00:04:31 -0500 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA07568; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 23:59:44 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id XAA07554; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 23:59:43 -0500 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 23:59:43 -0500 Message-Id: <199601300459.XAA07554@europe.std.com> To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Non-member submission from [olh@hyperback.com (Bob Olhsson)] Status: RO X-Status: >From habib@world.std.com Mon Jan 29 23:59:40 1996 Return-Path: Received: from miwok.nbn.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id XAA07548; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 23:59:39 -0500 Received: from [199.4.64.39] (srf-39.nbn.com [199.4.64.39]) by miwok.nbn.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA07392; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 20:59:30 -0800 X-Sender: olh@mail.nbn.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 21:00:50 -0800 To: tariqas@europe.std.com, msa-ec@europe.std.com From: olh@hyperback.com (Bob Olhsson) Subject: Re: Lets get pragmatic At 11:04 PM 1/26/96, Zafar Siddiqui wrote: >Assalamualaikum brothers and sisters, ... I request that we discuss the problems that we are faced with >in the West and their possible solutions. > I can offer some perspective as a U.S. convert to Islam. It is important to differentiate between cultural losses and an individual's loss of consciousness of their relationship with Allah. Cultural loss is a common response that is then followed by a seeking of culture. I had little interest in my father's Swedish culture but now at age 50 I am fascinated by it and actively seek more knowledge about Sweden. My early experience being raised a Christian (Swedish Lutheran) was a very positive one with an inspired teacher. What we were taught, in retrospect, was clearly Islam. Our minister was honest about his problems with the Trinity concept but saw it as a useful tool for teaching about our relationship with God. We were never taught to worship Jesus the man. He had little tolerance for disrespect of other churches and religions since we all OBVIOUSLY worshipped the SAME, ONE God. It was made clear to us that all differences were the creation of mankind and that these were mostly arguments and opinions about details of authority that no mortal could ever really know for a fact and that they have no bearing on one's actual relationship with God. I actually saw this man unify many of the Lutheran churches in the U.S. and create a unified form or worship for Roman Cahtolic, Lutheran and Epispical churches in the U.S. by effectively teaching that there is none but ONE God. Having had such an inspired teacher, his very uninspired "church social director" style replacement left me out in the cold. Islam clearly embodied his natural approach to religion and incorporates all that he taught me of Christianity and more. The most pragmatic thing we can do is to find the experience of Allah that Islam came from. Respect for all of Allah's creation is at the top of my list. Peace in our experience of the truth of Allah's existance is a key to our ultimate power as humans. Bickering about unknowable details is a road to powerlessness and to the warfare a sense of powerlessness can lead to. The cultural diversity we have in the U.S. demands that religion be taught and practiced from the core of the individual. Each step I have taken into Islam has been at the same time ten steps into the core of the Christianity I was first taught. Once the basics are addressed, I think the rest can and will fall in place. Bob Bob Olhsson Audio |O tongue, thou art a treasure without end. And, Box 555,Novato CA 94948 |O tongue, thou art also a disease without remedy. 415.457.2620 | 415.456.1496 FAX | == Jelal'uddin Rumi == From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue Jan 30 07:40:23 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA23636; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 02:45:43 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id CAA22962; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 02:45:42 -0500 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA22868; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 02:40:23 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id CAA22630; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 02:40:23 -0500 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 02:40:23 -0500 Message-Id: <199601300740.CAA22630@europe.std.com> To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Non-member submission from [Mohammed Hassim ] Status: RO X-Status: >From habib@world.std.com Tue Jan 30 02:40:21 1996 Return-Path: Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id CAA22621; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 02:40:20 -0500 Received: from qtts-ngwgate.telkom.co.za by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA22411; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 02:37:16 -0500 Received: from Telkom-Message_Server by qtts-ngwgate.telkom.co.za with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 09:35:00 +0200 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 08:31:29 +0200 From: Mohammed Hassim To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Salih i noor institue Salaam, I am looking for an address of Ustad Bediuzzaman. I looking into studying his works and books he wrote. Any help will be appreciated. Regards Mohammed Hassim hassimmr@telkom09.telkom.co.za From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue Jan 30 14:58:10 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA25370; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 10:30:48 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id JAA24909; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 09:59:36 -0500 Received: from nova.unix.portal.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id JAA24899; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 09:59:30 -0500 Received: from jobe.shell.portal.com (jobe.shell.portal.com [156.151.3.4]) by nova.unix.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) with ESMTP id GAA18554 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 06:58:12 -0800 Received: (tyagi@localhost) by jobe.shell.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) id GAA14003 for tariqas@facteur.std.com; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 06:58:10 -0800 Message-Id: <199601301458.GAA14003@jobe.shell.portal.com> Subject: Islam a Prerequisite to Sufism? To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 06:58:10 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <01I0CK9IQFWY90TTYK@jazz.ucc.uno.edu> from "MJVBEG@jazz.ucc.uno.edu" at Jan 23, 96 11:58:11 am From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (Haramullah) Orientation: House of Kaos, St. Joseph, Kali Fornika, US -- Kali Yuga X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 5133 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: 49960130 Peace be with you, my kin. The honorable Mackie Blanton wrote regarding the finger gesture in salat: |From what i understand, this gesture derives from Sunnah. It is |considered an almost imperceptible but subtle sign of caution and |warning to Iblis to stay his distance. That was one of the explanations given by others, yes. It appears that there is some variation of ritual form within Islam, which is not really all that surprising to me (most religions I have studied varied significantly across their culture), though I have heard several Muslims suggest that 'there is only one way', and so I think it somewhat funny that I find a great variation in thought and practice within the religion. |Most Muslims raise their finger once and then bring it to rest with the |hand as the one praying continues his or her prayers. Some sects, |however, gesticulate this finger numerous times, which apparently |is not directly Sunnah. So how is 'Sunnah' determined, exactly? I gather that there is no central authority in Islam besides Allah -- the imams and sheikhs may coordinate to some degree but there is a wide variation (esp.of justification/explanation) among Muslims in many areas. Is 'Sunnah' (tradition, I think) interpreted by scholars and saints and then rendered to the people who listen to them? This could lead to greater and greater differences (not a travesty if we see it all directed toward the Most Merciful). Does 'Sunnah' get regulated by Allah in some way? This would, if we could find out for sure (not just based on someone else's interpreta- tion of scripture), show us the core of Islam. |...How can there be so much attention paid to *Hal*, *Muqammat*, and |"Say Allah and you are Allah" -- when at the same time on this list |there seems to be so little basic knowledge of Salat? Please forgive me, but I do not know what 'Hal' or 'Muqammat' mean. Could you explain what these terms signify? Perhaps those who are of different cultures approach Islam in different ways. Perhaps some must come from steep angles, others from shallow. |Doesn't this suggest that one has to a thoroughgoing Muslim before |one can even consider--and only at the encouragement and selection |of others--bcoming a Sufi? By your text you seem to imply that 'a Sufi' is something akin to the traditional structures such as Mevlevi and Naqshbandi. There is some controversy about this, though I doubt very much within the Sufi communities themselves. :> To some becoming 'a sufi' is a gift of Allah for Hir own reasons and we may not be able but to prepare for it. You suggest that preparing to become a Sufi includes becoming a Muslim. There are many types of Muslim religious. Certainly there are commonalities, yet there is a wide range of meaning associated with the term itself, including 'one who knows the will of Allah'. I agree with you that, given your meanings of these terms, a very serious grounding in Islam is important to the introduction to the Sufi community, though I doubt it is absolutely necessary in the short-term. Some sheikhs might see the potential in a student to gradually introduce them to Islam while accepting them as Sufi -- though perhaps on a personal and individual basis so as not to upset the wider social acceptance of shariah. |It seems to me that the experience for many of us is more important |than Allah. And this is HHallul and shirk. I am unsure what you mean here. I would very strongly agree that there is a serious issue in regards the fanaticism which has grown around salat and its particular manifestations within Islamic cultures. If one was very sensitive to Allah's guidance, one might throw all of Islam out, start with Allah, and reconstruct one's own necessities through that guidance. This may be what sheikhs encourage when guiding those who cannot or do not wish to maintain shariah, some of the sheiks no doubt hoping that their murshid will be brought to the straight path through the mercy of Allah's influence. And yet I do not think that this sensitivity to the guidance of the All Powerful One is commonplace, and this may be evident to imams and sheikhs who, seemingly with some fanaticism yet perhaps in their wisdom, place such extreme importance upon salat and the other 4 Pillars as they have come down to us in their manifestations. |Say Iblis, who comes in many forms, and you are Iblis. I gather that this is a satire on 'Say Allah and you are Allah', above. I'm not familiar with either saying, though I gather at least the first is from traditional sources. I wonder what 'say Allah' truly includes, and whether it is a mere vocalization or whether it might include such things as prayer and fasting and pilgrimmage as is taught within orthodox tariqas. I gather also that Iblis has not the power of Allah, and so this satire, as I perceive it, would not be supported by orthodox tradition in comparison with the earlier version. Comments encouraged. Peace be upon you, my kin. Haramullah tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (see ftp://ftp.hollyfeld.org/pub/Esoteric/Usenet/Sufism) From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue Jan 30 16:50:26 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA09127; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 12:41:35 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id LAA11649; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 11:50:04 -0500 Received: from tymix.Tymnet.COM by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id LAA11644; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 11:49:59 -0500 Received: by tymix.Tymnet.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA29949; Tue, 30 Jan 96 08:49:58 PST Received: from antares by tymix.Tymnet.COM (in.smtpd); 30 Jan 96 8:49:58 PST Received: from kirin.Tymnet.COM by antares.Tymnet.COM (8.6.5/UCB) id IAA13705; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 08:49:57 -0800 Received: by kirin.Tymnet.COM (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA13000; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 08:50:26 -0800 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 08:50:26 -0800 From: mmoore@antares.Tymnet.COM (Michael J. Moore) Message-Id: <9601301650.AA13000@kirin.Tymnet.COM> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Islam a Prerequisite to Sufism? X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Before Islam there was Sufism. Before Islam there was Islam. Both remained unnamed. When these were named, then people claimed them. To the degree that people who claim them are different, they are different. There is still the unnamed Sufism and there is still the unnamed Islam, and they are still the same. (IMHO) -Brother Michael- OH Brother! From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue Jan 30 18:02:22 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA07415; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:09:11 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id NAA00977; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:03:46 -0500 Received: from nova.unix.portal.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id NAA00959; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:03:42 -0500 Received: from jobe.shell.portal.com (jobe.shell.portal.com [156.151.3.4]) by nova.unix.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA07163 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 10:02:25 -0800 Received: (tyagi@localhost) by jobe.shell.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) id KAA00334; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 10:02:23 -0800 Message-Id: <199601301802.KAA00334@jobe.shell.portal.com> Subject: Symbolism (Wing/Heart/Moon/Star) To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 10:02:22 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19960129232538.002e8698@worldweb.net> from "James McCaig" at Jan 29, 96 06:25:38 pm From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (Haramullah) Orientation: House of Kaos, St. Joseph, Kali Fornika, US -- Kali Yuga X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 13808 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: 49960130 Peace be with you, my kin. Hazrat Inayat Khan was quoted by jmccaig@worldweb.net as saying: |...the heart is between soul and body, a medium between spirit and matter. This is very very wonderful! As I understand it in my ignorance, spirit and matter are twin visions of the Paradise in which we live (subjective and objective realms respectively). That the heart (qalb) lies *between* these and (as HIKhan later says) is responsive in an insightful way fits very nicely with what I have been taught about its function in coming to hear the guidance of Allah. |...as in Egyptian symbology wings are the symbol of spiritual progress, |so the heart with wings expresses that the heart reaches upward towards |heaven. I feel that the metaphorical use of 'up' and 'down' as indicative of heaven and earth is very important. And yet if we are not careful we may be misled by it. Wings allow one to *leave* the earth in flight, and yet they only allow us to fly to the uppermost reaches of our planet's atmosphere (where they may push against gasses and elevate us). However, they also allow us to *return* to earth, or fly *downwards*, and I do not personally feel that heaven is a place at the outermost extreme (even in analogy of this metaphor) of upward flight. I would suggest to you that a place *between* up and down is where heaven truly lies, and the only way to reach that spot is to somehow acquire wings and fly there, consistent with this symbolic teaching that HIKhan may be pointing out. |The crescent in the heart suggests the responsiveness of the heart. |The crescent represents the responsiveness of the crescent moon to the |light of the sun, for naturally it receives the light, which develops |it until it becomes the full moon. It was difficult to find a reproduction of this flying heart with crescent and star in the Haus library (though I did find it in 'The Sound' and I would mention that we do now have a very wonderful s/Sufism section which the public is welcome to use for research and an introduction to tasawwuf -- contact me if you live in the SFBay Area and wish to visit and/or use this to your advantage in learning of it). In any case, HIKhan's description as rendered here is quite beautiful, and I think one might also infer the common Western notions of the heart and crescent in terms of emotions (some Sufis apparently do this quite readily). Not only do the emotions lie between the conscious and subconscious mind (usually somatically restimulated with in massage), but the crescent is typically associated with the feminine, though usually in left-or-right orientation (indicating waxing or waning as is applicable) which is also, in the West, associated with the feminine. That the crescent supports the star is perhaps of great importance in the examination of the relationships which exist amongst the heart which contains these and the star and crescent themselves. The crescent is, within the most common versions of this symbol I have seen (and it varies a little), in the shape of a cup, filled by the star of brilliance. The position of the crescent does not indicate to us whether it is of the waxing or waning variety therefore, though many teachers will no doubt favor the waxing- or light-orientation. The star rests atop this, slightly above the center of the heart which surrounds them. It is a five-pointed star in most renditions I've seen, and it is drawn as a foreground object rather than as a geometric pentagram. To me these represent the conscious and unconcious processes, and their containment within the spiritual growth that is made possible through love and the qalb, uniting these psycho-spiritual energies into a dynamic and potent force of gnosis and liberation. |The principal teaching of Sufism is that of learning to become a pupil, |for it is the pupil who has a chance of becoming a teacher, and once a |person considers that he is a teacher, his responsiveness is gone. I have not heard this said before. Usually I have heard that the principle teaching was knowledge of the heart, gnosis (ma'rifa). That said, Stoddart maintains that in comparing Christianity with Islam: As far as the spiritualities of the two religions is concerned, Christian mysticism tends by and large to be characterized by the 'Way of Love' (*mahabbah* in Islamic terminology), whereas Islamic mysticism (i.e. Sufism) comprises both the 'Way of Knowledge' (*ma'rifa*) and the 'Way of Love' (*mahabba*). (_Sufism_, William Stoddart, Paragon House, 1985, p. 48) ________________________________________________________ Perhaps HIKhan intends to convey both of these through an instruction in the tariqas (orders) as a part of what is called the Golden Chain (lineage succession from the prophets) and the value of community instruction. |...the crescent in the heart signifies that the heart which is |responsive to the light of God is illuminated. Note that the two closest bodies (sol, a star; and luna, a satellite) to our planet are here indicated, and between them we may locate our present state of the sufi (again the 'between' realm of the conscious- subconscious pair). |The five-pointed star represents the Divine Light. I have heard various attributions for five-pointed stars and have made a fairly broad study of its symbolic association in at least occult but in some cases religious traditions in the West. This one (divine light) is very common, especially among the luminaries (pun intended) of JCI (Judeo-Christian-Islamic) traditions. However, I have personally found value in associating the 5-pt star with 'Bios', life, perhaps related to the Egyptian notions of the ankh and its 'goingness' or 'vivacity'. |For when the light comes, it has five points; In reference to the Western '5 senses' or perhaps even the 5 Pillars? :> |when it returns, it has four, In reference to the coffin or perhaps to the Ka'ab, returning to the Source? |the former suggesting creation, the latter annihilation. If this is the case, then the symbol under discussion is only creation-based and therefore unbalanced in many ways (indicative of its movement, progression, escalation). |The five-pointed star also represents the natural figure of man, Yes, this is a popular occult tradition and is seen in the famous sketchings of Leonardo da Vinci. Typically it is ascribed a number of pentads, such as the Greek or Indian elements (earth/air/fire/water and Spirit or Space respectively). For more on the history and significance of the pentagram (which is somewhat different than the 5-point star I find in sSufi graphics), see the following file: ftp://ftp.hollyfeld.org/pub/Esoteric/Web/Amgkfaq/pentref |though that with four points represents all forms of the world. This conforms to my understanding of traditional symbolism, in that the quadalateral (square/rectangle/etc.) is typically associated with the material and earthly. This takes on very great meaning when we come to think of cubes (al Ka'aba), for example, or double-interlaced squares (as I have seen associated very often with Islam -- even as above the door of a mosque I have visited). |The heart which by its response has received the Divine Light is liberated, |as the wings show. In brief, the meaning of the symbol is that the heart |responsive to the Light of God is liberated." Very beautiful. Notice that angels are often depicted with wings of the type drawn attached to this heart of which HIKhan speaks. My favorite symbolism reference indicates: _Wings_ Wings are almost entirely exclusive to Western and Middle Eastern representations of divinities and supernatural beings. Wings are solar and depict divinity; spiritual nature; the moving, protective and all-pervading power of the deity; the power to transcend the mundane world; the never-weary; the ubiquitous; the air; wind; spontaneous movement; the flight of time; the flight of thought; volition; mind; freedom; victory; swiftness. Wings are attributes of swift messenger gods and denote the power of communications between gods and men. Out- spread wings are divine protection, or the shrouding of the heavens from the fierce heat of the sun.... (_An Illustrated Encyclopaedia of Traditional Symbols_, J.C. Cooper, Thames and Hudson, 1990, p. 193) _______________________________________________________ Note the additional solar reference here, supporting HIKhan's focus on illumination (especially in association with the heart, below). I also enjoy the connections to the Messenger and to the Protector (of the faithful? :>). _Heart_ The centre of being, both physical and spiritual; the divine presence at the centre. The heart represents the "central" wisdom of feeling as opposed to head-wisdom of reason; both are intelligence, but the heart is also compassion; understanding; the 'secret place'; love; charity; it contains the life-blood.... *Islamic*: The Centre of Being; the 'eye of the heart' is the spiritual centre; the absolute intellect; illumination. (Ibid, p. 82) _____________ I had not deeply contemplated the symbolism of heart-as-center before, though it makes a great deal of sense. The heart is very important to a number of Western religious traditions (recently I saw Catholic icons of Jesus and Mary pointing to their chests, where was to be seen a flaming heart, apparently symbolic of the centers of both the cosmos and the individual). This fits in nicely with some of Stoddart's text: ...the pilgrimmage (*hajj*) to the Ka'ba in Mecca is the outward symbol of the inward journey to the 'heart' (*qalb*), which is the seat of Intellect (*'aql*) and is the mysterious centre where the Divine Spirit (*ar-Ruh*) touches the human soul. (Stoddart, p. 63) _________________ But as to the rest of the symbol: _Crescent_ The crescent moon is, par excellence, the symbol of the Great Mother, the lunar Queen of Heaven, and is the attribute of all moon goddesses; it is the passive, feminine principle and is both the Mother and Celestial Virgin.... *Islamic*: The crescent with the star depicts divinity, sovereignty. *Sumerian*: Attribute of the moon god Sin. The emblem of Byzantium, Islam and the Turks. (Cooper, p. 44) _____________ I would also note that in Hindu tradition such a crescent apparently refers to the 'cup of immortality' and in Celtic tradition two crescents back to back also indicate immortality. Perhaps this is a subtle teaching referencing the soul and her immortal perfection (not sure if this is traditional Islam instruction). It appears to pair quite nicely with the star, below ("the undying"): _Star_ The presence of divinity; supremacy; the eternal; the undying; the highest attainment; an angelic messenger of a god; hope (as shining in darkness); the eyes of the night. Stars are attributes of all Queens of Heaven, who are often star-crowned. The star is pre-eminently the symbol of Ishtar or Venus, as morning and evening star. The pole star marks the pivotal point in the sky and is thus the Gate of Heaven at night.... The five- pointed star, upwards, is aspiration; light; the spiritual; education.... *Islamic*: Divinity; supremacy. The star is depicted with the crescent. (Ibid, p. 159) ______________ Note the commonalities amongst the symbols here in 'messenger' and 'eternality', as well as the potent symbolic feminine of moon and star together. The associations here with instruction and illumination support very well HIKhan's testimony on its meaning (esp. as regards 'aspiration' and 'education'). The focus on 'the spiritual' in both moon and star imply the result of the wings which bear them up in the container of the heart. As a final note I saw within my brief scan of the library archives a graphic of the heart containing a *6*-pointed star surmounting a crescent which joined its barbs at the top of the star inside it at a small circle. The wings curve upward to meet a *5*-pointed star outside and above the heart. I found this symbolism quite intriguing, though imagine variation is quite common. The symbol was in one of the periodicals I perused ('The Sound', based in San Rafael, CA, USA) and was part of a graphic inviting the reader to a celebration of the wedding night ("Shebi Arus") of Mevlana Jelaluddin Rumi (issue 124, December 1993, p. 11). The symbol also contains other graphics which I am hesitant to attempt to interpret. Within the 6-pointed star appears to be some form of character or linear symbol (like a elongated small Roman 'i'). Atop the heart rests what seems like a ball of yarn or string, and atop that is one of those cylindrical hats depicted as worn by many sufis (please forgive my ignorance of its name). The 5-pointed star at the top of the graphic is a great many Arabic letters, perhaps criss-crossed, fabricating the body (no outline to) the star. I'd love to hear more about these other symbols as well as your reflections on what I've dug up in association with what must be one of the more popular Sufi symbols. I leave you for the nonce with a bit of text which Allah was kind enough guide to my wandering eye concernin the heart: My heart has opened unto every form: it is a pasture for gazelles, a cloister for Christian monks, a temple for idols, the Ka'ba of the pilgrim, the tables of the Torah and the book of the Qur'an. I practice the religion of Love; in whatsoever directions its caravans advance, the religion of Love shall be my religion and faith. *Muliyi 'd-Din ibn 'Arabi* (Quoted in Stoddart, p. 82) ______________________________ Peace and love be upon you, my kin! Haramullah tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue Jan 30 19:56:47 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA09145; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 15:43:25 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id OAA16743; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:56:44 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id OAA16732; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:56:41 -0500 Received: from UNiX.asb.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA00382; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:48:20 -0500 Received: from asb19 (sls9.asb.com [165.254.128.19]) by UNiX.asb.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA17903; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:56:47 -0500 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:56:47 -0500 Message-Id: <199601301956.OAA17903@UNiX.asb.com> X-Sender: fhaddad@unix.asb.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: msa-ec@facteur.std.com, tariqas@world.std.com From: fhaddad@unix.asb.com (Fouad Haddad) Subject: [10] On dhikr (Remembrance of God) Cc: soc-religion-islam@telerama.lm.com X-Mailer: Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: [10] ON DHIKR (from NUZHAT AL-MAJALIS) Six Benefits of Dhikr (continued) 6. Lengthening the Pronounciation of LA ILAHA ILLALLAH Ibn `Abbas said - may God be well pleased with him and his father - that the Prophet (s) said: "The day God created the heavens and the earth He created an angel and ordered him to say: "There is no god except God alone" (LA ILAHA ILLALLAH). The angel lengthens his delivery as he utters it and will not rest from this until the trumpet is blown." One of the Companions said that whoever says: "No god except God" and lengthens his pronounciation intending thereby to magnify God, God will remit for him four thousand grave sins with it, and if he did not commit four thousand, God will remit the difference for his family and neighbors. It is related in the hadith: "Whoever says "No god except God" and lengthens his pronounciation intending thereby to magnify God, four thousand of his sins are astruck thereby from the register of his sins." Hence it is praiseworthy to lengthen one's pronounciation upon uttering it, as Nawawi said, may God the Exalted have mercy upon him. The Prophet (s) also said: "Whoever lengthens his pronounciation upon saying "No god except God," God will make him dwell in Paradise in the Abode of Majesty by which he has named Himself when He said: "There remaineth but the countenance of thy Lord of Might and Glory" (55:27), and God will grant him to behold His gracious countenance." Anas ibn Malik said - may God be well pleased with him - from the Prophet (s): "O human beings! Whoever says "No god except God" in astonishment at something, God creates from each letter of his utterance a tree with as many leaves as the days of this world, each leaf asking forgiveness for him and praising God on his behalf until the Day of judgment."... It has been related that this phrase has on the side of Iblis the effect which a gangrenous sore would have on the side of a human being. al-Qadi `Iyad* relates in the "Shifa" from Ibn `Abbas (r) that written on the door of Paradise is the inscription: "There is no god but God alone, Muhammad is the Messenger of God: Whoever says this, I shall not punish him." *Abu al-Fadl `Iyad ibn Musa al-Yahsubi al-Maliki (d. 544 H) of Andalusia and Fes, Morocco. The imam of his time in the sciences of hadith, and a scholar of tafsir, fiqh, Arabic grammar and language, and Arab genealogy. He wrote many books including a commentary on the Sahih of Muslim which Nawawi used in his own great commentary. Ibn Farhun in "Dibaj al-dhahab" says of his book "al-Shifa": "No-one disputes the fact that it is totally unique nor denies him the honor of being the first to compose such a book. Everyone relies on it and writes about its usefulness and encourages others to read and study it. Copies of it have spread East and West." (Qadi `Iyad, "Muhammad Messenger of Allah: Al-shifa' of Qadi `Iyad," trans. Aisha Abdarrahman Bewley, Granada, Spain: Madinah Press, 1991, p. 511). Blessings and Peace on the Prophet, his Family, and his Companions Fouad Haddad Naqshbandi-Haqqani Foundation of Ahl al-Sunna wal-Jama`a URL: http://www.best.com/~informe/mateen/haqqani.html [in 9 languages] From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue Jan 30 20:29:53 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA10090; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 16:33:31 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id PAB21143; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 15:28:43 -0500 Received: from fastmail.worldweb.net by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id PAA21134; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 15:28:39 -0500 Received: from dns.worldweb.net (dns.worldweb.net [204.117.218.2]) by fastmail.worldweb.net (8.7.2/8.7.2) with SMTP id PAA09447 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 15:32:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from JIM ([204.117.218.165]) by dns.worldweb.net with SMTP; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 16:45:45 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960130202953.0032dfe0@worldweb.net> X-Sender: jmccaig@worldweb.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 15:29:53 -0500 To: tariqas@facteur.std.com, tariqas@facteur.std.com From: James McCaig Subject: Re: Symbolism (Wing/Heart/Moon/Star) Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: At 10:02 AM 1/30/96 -0800, Haramullah wrote: Dear Haramullah, Thank you for your thoughtful and insightful comments and teaching about the Sufi Symbol. There is very little to be said after this, except that I intend to print it and distribute copies at our next Sufi meeting here and use it as the basis for our discussion that evening. Hazrat Inayat Khan has written much about Symbology and it's study is one of the five main activities of the International Sufi Movement. With this fine piece you have shown us your deep understanding of Sufism and I look forward to your future writings. Would you care to have me post another selection on Symbology for your comments? >49960130 > >Peace be with you, my kin. > > >Hazrat Inayat Khan was quoted by jmccaig@worldweb.net as saying: > >|...the heart is between soul and body, a medium between spirit and matter. > >This is very very wonderful! As I understand it in my ignorance, spirit >and matter are twin visions of the Paradise in which we live (subjective >and objective realms respectively). That the heart (qalb) lies *between* >these and (as HIKhan later says) is responsive in an insightful way fits >very nicely with what I have been taught about its function in coming to >hear the guidance of Allah. > > >|...as in Egyptian symbology wings are the symbol of spiritual progress, >|so the heart with wings expresses that the heart reaches upward towards >|heaven. > >I feel that the metaphorical use of 'up' and 'down' as indicative of >heaven and earth is very important. And yet if we are not careful >we may be misled by it. Wings allow one to *leave* the earth in flight, >and yet they only allow us to fly to the uppermost reaches of our >planet's atmosphere (where they may push against gasses and elevate us). > >However, they also allow us to *return* to earth, or fly *downwards*, >and I do not personally feel that heaven is a place at the outermost >extreme (even in analogy of this metaphor) of upward flight. I would >suggest to you that a place *between* up and down is where heaven truly >lies, and the only way to reach that spot is to somehow acquire wings >and fly there, consistent with this symbolic teaching that HIKhan may >be pointing out. > > >|The crescent in the heart suggests the responsiveness of the heart. >|The crescent represents the responsiveness of the crescent moon to the >|light of the sun, for naturally it receives the light, which develops >|it until it becomes the full moon. > >It was difficult to find a reproduction of this flying heart with >crescent and star in the Haus library (though I did find it in 'The Sound' >and I would mention that we do now have a very wonderful s/Sufism section >which the public is welcome to use for research and an introduction to >tasawwuf -- contact me if you live in the SFBay Area and wish to visit >and/or use this to your advantage in learning of it). > >In any case, HIKhan's description as rendered here is quite beautiful, and >I think one might also infer the common Western notions of the heart and >crescent in terms of emotions (some Sufis apparently do this quite readily). > >Not only do the emotions lie between the conscious and subconscious mind >(usually somatically restimulated with in massage), but the crescent is >typically associated with the feminine, though usually in left-or-right >orientation (indicating waxing or waning as is applicable) which is also, >in the West, associated with the feminine. > >That the crescent supports the star is perhaps of great importance in >the examination of the relationships which exist amongst the heart which >contains these and the star and crescent themselves. > >The crescent is, within the most common versions of this symbol I have >seen (and it varies a little), in the shape of a cup, filled by the >star of brilliance. The position of the crescent does not indicate >to us whether it is of the waxing or waning variety therefore, though >many teachers will no doubt favor the waxing- or light-orientation. > >The star rests atop this, slightly above the center of the heart >which surrounds them. It is a five-pointed star in most renditions >I've seen, and it is drawn as a foreground object rather than as a >geometric pentagram. > >To me these represent the conscious and unconcious processes, and >their containment within the spiritual growth that is made possible >through love and the qalb, uniting these psycho-spiritual energies >into a dynamic and potent force of gnosis and liberation. > > >|The principal teaching of Sufism is that of learning to become a pupil, >|for it is the pupil who has a chance of becoming a teacher, and once a >|person considers that he is a teacher, his responsiveness is gone. > >I have not heard this said before. Usually I have heard that the >principle teaching was knowledge of the heart, gnosis (ma'rifa). That >said, Stoddart maintains that in comparing Christianity with Islam: > > As far as the spiritualities of the two religions > is concerned, Christian mysticism tends by and large > to be characterized by the 'Way of Love' (*mahabbah* > in Islamic terminology), whereas Islamic mysticism > (i.e. Sufism) comprises both the 'Way of Knowledge' > (*ma'rifa*) and the 'Way of Love' (*mahabba*). > > (_Sufism_, William Stoddart, Paragon House, 1985, p. 48) > ________________________________________________________ > >Perhaps HIKhan intends to convey both of these through an instruction >in the tariqas (orders) as a part of what is called the Golden Chain >(lineage succession from the prophets) and the value of community >instruction. > > >|...the crescent in the heart signifies that the heart which is >|responsive to the light of God is illuminated. > >Note that the two closest bodies (sol, a star; and luna, a satellite) >to our planet are here indicated, and between them we may locate our >present state of the sufi (again the 'between' realm of the conscious- >subconscious pair). > > >|The five-pointed star represents the Divine Light. > >I have heard various attributions for five-pointed stars and have made >a fairly broad study of its symbolic association in at least occult >but in some cases religious traditions in the West. This one (divine >light) is very common, especially among the luminaries (pun intended) >of JCI (Judeo-Christian-Islamic) traditions. > >However, I have personally found value in associating the 5-pt star >with 'Bios', life, perhaps related to the Egyptian notions of the >ankh and its 'goingness' or 'vivacity'. > > >|For when the light comes, it has five points; > >In reference to the Western '5 senses' or perhaps even the 5 Pillars? :> > > >|when it returns, it has four, > >In reference to the coffin or perhaps to the Ka'ab, returning to the Source? > > >|the former suggesting creation, the latter annihilation. > >If this is the case, then the symbol under discussion is only >creation-based and therefore unbalanced in many ways (indicative >of its movement, progression, escalation). > > >|The five-pointed star also represents the natural figure of man, > >Yes, this is a popular occult tradition and is seen in the famous >sketchings of Leonardo da Vinci. Typically it is ascribed a number >of pentads, such as the Greek or Indian elements (earth/air/fire/water >and Spirit or Space respectively). > >For more on the history and significance of the pentagram (which is >somewhat different than the 5-point star I find in sSufi graphics), >see the following file: > > ftp://ftp.hollyfeld.org/pub/Esoteric/Web/Amgkfaq/pentref > > >|though that with four points represents all forms of the world. > >This conforms to my understanding of traditional symbolism, in that >the quadalateral (square/rectangle/etc.) is typically associated with >the material and earthly. This takes on very great meaning when we >come to think of cubes (al Ka'aba), for example, or double-interlaced >squares (as I have seen associated very often with Islam -- even as >above the door of a mosque I have visited). > > >|The heart which by its response has received the Divine Light is liberated, >|as the wings show. In brief, the meaning of the symbol is that the heart >|responsive to the Light of God is liberated." > >Very beautiful. Notice that angels are often depicted with wings of the >type drawn attached to this heart of which HIKhan speaks. My favorite >symbolism reference indicates: > > _Wings_ Wings are almost entirely exclusive to Western > and Middle Eastern representations of divinities and > supernatural beings. Wings are solar and depict divinity; > spiritual nature; the moving, protective and all-pervading > power of the deity; the power to transcend the mundane > world; the never-weary; the ubiquitous; the air; wind; > spontaneous movement; the flight of time; the flight of > thought; volition; mind; freedom; victory; swiftness. > > Wings are attributes of swift messenger gods and denote > the power of communications between gods and men. Out- > spread wings are divine protection, or the shrouding > of the heavens from the fierce heat of the sun.... > > (_An Illustrated Encyclopaedia of Traditional Symbols_, > J.C. Cooper, Thames and Hudson, 1990, p. 193) > _______________________________________________________ > >Note the additional solar reference here, supporting HIKhan's >focus on illumination (especially in association with the >heart, below). I also enjoy the connections to the Messenger >and to the Protector (of the faithful? :>). > > > _Heart_ The centre of being, both physical and spiritual; > the divine presence at the centre. The heart represents > the "central" wisdom of feeling as opposed to head-wisdom > of reason; both are intelligence, but the heart is also > compassion; understanding; the 'secret place'; love; > charity; it contains the life-blood.... > > *Islamic*: The Centre of Being; the 'eye of the heart' > is the spiritual centre; the absolute intellect; > illumination. > > (Ibid, p. 82) > _____________ > >I had not deeply contemplated the symbolism of heart-as-center >before, though it makes a great deal of sense. The heart is very >important to a number of Western religious traditions (recently >I saw Catholic icons of Jesus and Mary pointing to their chests, >where was to be seen a flaming heart, apparently symbolic of the >centers of both the cosmos and the individual). > >This fits in nicely with some of Stoddart's text: > > ...the pilgrimmage (*hajj*) to the Ka'ba in Mecca > is the outward symbol of the inward journey to the > 'heart' (*qalb*), which is the seat of Intellect > (*'aql*) and is the mysterious centre where the > Divine Spirit (*ar-Ruh*) touches the human soul. > > (Stoddart, p. 63) > _________________ > >But as to the rest of the symbol: > > _Crescent_ The crescent moon is, par excellence, > the symbol of the Great Mother, the lunar Queen > of Heaven, and is the attribute of all moon > goddesses; it is the passive, feminine principle > and is both the Mother and Celestial Virgin.... > > *Islamic*: The crescent with the star depicts > divinity, sovereignty. > > *Sumerian*: Attribute of the moon god Sin. The > emblem of Byzantium, Islam and the Turks. > > (Cooper, p. 44) > _____________ > >I would also note that in Hindu tradition such a crescent >apparently refers to the 'cup of immortality' and in Celtic >tradition two crescents back to back also indicate immortality. >Perhaps this is a subtle teaching referencing the soul and her >immortal perfection (not sure if this is traditional Islam >instruction). It appears to pair quite nicely with the star, >below ("the undying"): > > _Star_ The presence of divinity; supremacy; the eternal; > the undying; the highest attainment; an angelic messenger > of a god; hope (as shining in darkness); the eyes of the > night. Stars are attributes of all Queens of Heaven, > who are often star-crowned. The star is pre-eminently > the symbol of Ishtar or Venus, as morning and evening > star. The pole star marks the pivotal point in the sky > and is thus the Gate of Heaven at night.... The five- > pointed star, upwards, is aspiration; light; the > spiritual; education.... > > *Islamic*: Divinity; supremacy. The star is depicted > with the crescent. > > (Ibid, p. 159) > ______________ > >Note the commonalities amongst the symbols here in 'messenger' >and 'eternality', as well as the potent symbolic feminine of >moon and star together. The associations here with instruction >and illumination support very well HIKhan's testimony on its meaning >(esp. as regards 'aspiration' and 'education'). The focus on >'the spiritual' in both moon and star imply the result of the >wings which bear them up in the container of the heart. > > >As a final note I saw within my brief scan of the library >archives a graphic of the heart containing a *6*-pointed >star surmounting a crescent which joined its barbs at the top of >the star inside it at a small circle. The wings curve upward to >meet a *5*-pointed star outside and above the heart. I found >this symbolism quite intriguing, though imagine variation is >quite common. > >The symbol was in one of the periodicals I perused ('The Sound', >based in San Rafael, CA, USA) and was part of a graphic inviting >the reader to a celebration of the wedding night ("Shebi Arus") >of Mevlana Jelaluddin Rumi (issue 124, December 1993, p. 11). > >The symbol also contains other graphics which I am hesitant to >attempt to interpret. Within the 6-pointed star appears to be >some form of character or linear symbol (like a elongated small >Roman 'i'). Atop the heart rests what seems like a ball of yarn >or string, and atop that is one of those cylindrical hats depicted >as worn by many sufis (please forgive my ignorance of its name). > >The 5-pointed star at the top of the graphic is a great many Arabic >letters, perhaps criss-crossed, fabricating the body (no outline >to) the star. > > >I'd love to hear more about these other symbols as well as >your reflections on what I've dug up in association with what >must be one of the more popular Sufi symbols. I leave you >for the nonce with a bit of text which Allah was kind enough >guide to my wandering eye concernin the heart: > > My heart has opened unto every form: it is a pasture > for gazelles, a cloister for Christian monks, a temple > for idols, the Ka'ba of the pilgrim, the tables of > the Torah and the book of the Qur'an. I practice the > religion of Love; in whatsoever directions its > caravans advance, the religion of Love shall be my > religion and faith. > > *Muliyi 'd-Din ibn 'Arabi* > > (Quoted in Stoddart, p. 82) > ______________________________ > > >Peace and love be upon you, my kin! > >Haramullah > tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com > Maharaj James McCaig | Sufi Center of Washington Brotherhood/Sisterhood Representative | Keepers of Sufi Center Bookstore United States | http://guess.worldweb.net/sufi jmccaig@worldweb.net From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue Jan 30 22:14:15 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA12382; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 18:15:13 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id RAA08762; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 17:24:41 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id RAA08757; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 17:24:38 -0500 Received: from halon.sybase.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA09076; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 17:16:11 -0500 Received: from sybase.sybase.com (nntp1.sybase.com) by halon.sybase.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4/SybFW4.0) id AA19562; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:16:20 -0800 Received: from cayenne.southbay.sybase.com.sybase.com by sybase.sybase.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/SybH3.4) id AA24713; Tue, 30 Jan 96 14:16:11 PST Received: by cayenne.southbay.sybase.com.sybase.com (4.1/SMI-SVR4/SybEC3.5) id AA05906; Tue, 30 Jan 96 14:14:15 PST Date: Tue, 30 Jan 96 14:14:15 PST From: mateens@sybase.com (Mateen Siddiqui) Message-Id: <9601302214.AA05906@cayenne.southbay.sybase.com.sybase.com> To: msa-ec@facteur.std.com, tariqas@world.std.com, ariel@best.com Subject: Re: [6] On dhikr (Remembrance of God) Cc: mateens@sybase.com, fhaddad@unix.asb.com Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Brother Zafar, salaam alaykum wa rahmatullah wa Ramadan Kareem, We have a considerable amount of detailed information on the Naqshbandi Tariqat (Sufi order) at our homepage. If you have a Web browser (like Mosaic or Netscape) you can look at it. If not let me know, and I will forward some of the information. Our URL is listed below my signature. However, the best information can be from the Shaykh of the tariqat himself, Mawlana Shaykh Muhammad Nazim al-Haqqani. He is currently in London at the Naqshbandi world headquarters, the Islamic Priory in Tottenham where he hosts `itikaf for about 3000 murids from throughout the world during Ramadan. I strongly advise you to go yourself and meet him if at all possible during Ramadan. --mateen siddiqui _______________________________________________________________ Naqshbandi-Haqqani Foundation for Ahl as-Sunnah wal-Jama'at URL: http://www.best.com/~informe/haqqani/haqqani.html [in 9 languages] UK Mirror http://www.ummah.org.uk/haqqani/haqqani.html > From msa-ec-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Jan 25 20:01:37 1996 > Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 21:55:28 -0600 (CST) > To: msa-ec@facteur.std.com > Subject: Re: [6] On dhikr (Remembrance of God) > > Assalamualaikum, > > Excuse my ignorance. Can some brother/sister explain to me what the terms > Naqshbandi/Sufi stand for? > > Jazakallah Khair, > Zafar Siddiqui > From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed Jan 31 06:44:42 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA00435; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 02:05:18 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id BAA07706; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 01:45:28 -0500 Received: from netcom16.netcom.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id BAA07695; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 01:45:24 -0500 Received: by netcom16.netcom.com (8.6.12/Netcom) id WAA02192; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 22:44:43 -0800 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 22:44:42 -0800 (PST) From: Steven Finkelman Subject: Looking for fatima, murshid sam's student... To: tariqas@facteur.std.com In-Reply-To: <199601260350.WAA00786@europe.std.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: I'm looking for some information on the dances and I have some questions to ask. If anyone has a way for me to contact her, I'd appreciate it. Thanks, Steve From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed Jan 31 09:42:46 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29543; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 05:17:25 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id EAA17972; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 04:46:25 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id EAA17959; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 04:46:22 -0500 From: informe@best.com Received: from blob.best.net by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA26303; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 04:42:51 -0500 Received: from [204.156.129.34] (informe.vip.best.com [204.156.129.34]) by blob.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id BAA07981 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 01:42:46 -0800 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 01:42:46 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: VOA article on Sufism Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: >From the overseas desk of the Voice of America: Ramadan / Sufism Laurie Kassman The muslim holy month of ramadan is a special time for fasting and praying. It is observed by all sects and schools of Islam around the world. In Egypt the growing appeal of the sufi order of Islam turns the focus to the individual away from politics. Dancers in colorful costumes spin and twirl like toy tops around and around and around and around, whirling themselves into a hypnotic trance, totally oblivious to the audience before them. Tourists and Egyptians alike are mesmerized by the whirling dervishes, billed simply as sufi dancers. But history professor Huda Lutfi says whirling dancers are not what sufism is about. "There is more focus on creative spirituality of the individual. Not simply performing the usual expected forms of ritual like praying and fasting and doing the pilgrimage. It involves more work on oneself. More self scrutiny, working on the inner part of one's spirituality." Sufi schools date back to the seventh century. The term sufi was used to describe a man of wool -- or a mystic who uses religion to look inward. Sufi followers are supposed to have a more ascetic, less extravagant lifestyle. In the past 10 years, sufism has appealed to a growing number of egypt's muslims and with the government's approval. Nearly one-10th of Egypt's 58-million inhabitants follow sufi mystics. The number of sufi schools in egypt has tripled in the past 35 years. Professor Lutfi says sufism's apolitical nature counters the more radical and violent fundamentalism that is spreading across the arab world. "The emphasis is on the individual. So the government finds this could be a balance. And of course, the Islamists who like to see a more pure form of Islam criticize the Islam of the sufi order because they are not following what their expectations are of a pure Islam." Just before the holy month of Ramadan, there are extravagant celebrations across Egypt to honor the birthdays of sufi masters and saints. Sufi shrines around Cairo are popular pilgrimage sites. But some sufi tombs have been desecrated in past years by purist muslims who say sufism borders on heresy. Sufi followers like Alia Beltagui dismiss the criticism as unwarranted. "There is no separation between life and religion. Life is religion and religion is life. It means that everything is meaningful. There is nothing in our life that is meaningless. Everything is meaningful. Religion is not just performing rituals, it is everything. " While the critics argue Islam is a comprehensive lifestyle that cannot ignore the collective political dimension, sufi followers say they prefer to view society through an individual relationship with their religion. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed Jan 31 09:54:17 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA00812; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 05:28:08 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id EAA18287; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 04:56:06 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id EAA18279; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 04:56:03 -0500 From: informe@best.com Received: from blob.best.net by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA27626; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 04:54:22 -0500 Received: from [204.156.129.34] (informe.vip.best.com [204.156.129.34]) by blob.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id BAA08808 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 01:54:17 -0800 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 01:54:17 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Chechen - Sufi connection Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Chechens fortified by mystical approach to Islam BY IRA RIFKIN Religion News Service Chechen separatists face overwhelming odds in their fight against the better-equipped and far larger Russian military machine. Yet they persist, taking hostages on land and at sea and displaying a seemingly reckless willingness to die for their cause. Two factors keep them fighting, according to expatriate Chechens and others familiar with their motivations. The first is a burning desire to be free of Moscow's domination, which Chechens have unsuccessfully fought for more than two centuries. ``To be free of the Russians is a tradition we pass from generation to generation,'' said Mohammed Shashani, who teaches electrical engineering at Pennsylvania State University and heads the 5,000-member Chechen-Ingush Society of America. ``My son is 12 and he talks about growing up and going to fight for Chechen independence. And he is an American citizen.'' The second factor sustains the first and is deeply rooted in the Chechen religious soul. The 1.3 million Chechens identify with mainstream Sunni Islam, but their stronger identification is with Sufism, a brand of Islamic mysticism that has long sustained them as they suffered one crushing defeat after another. ``Sufism has provided the Chechens with a spiritual cure for the degradation they have faced in the physical world,'' said Yo'av Karny, a Washington-based Israeli journalist who is writing a book about Chechnya and the Caucasus region. ``It's been a formula for survival during a history of periodic suicidal spasms.'' Moscow has alternately dismissed the Chechen rebels as mere gangsters or -- even worse by the standards of culturally Christian Russia -- Islamic fundamentalist terrorists. While lawlessness has always been prevalent in the Caucasus region, Sufism is in no way synonymous with fundamentalism. Its esoteric emphasis on inner experience is actually at odds with fundamentalism's accent on the minutiae of outward religious practice. ``Many fundamentalists even think of Sufis as being heretics because their love for saints and holy men can be seen as conflicting with the doctrine of Muhammad being the final prophet,'' Karny said. Moreover, on the surface, Chechens would appear more irreligious than anything else. Alcohol -- which is anathema to orthodox Muslims -- is widely consumed, and there are few mosques in Chechnya. The latter is largely attributable to 70 years of Russian communism's anti-religious policies, which only served to drive religious practice underground, an atmosphere in which Sufism thrived. Sufism -- the term derives from the Arabic word for wool and denotes the rough woolen garments worn by early Sufi ascetics -- purports to offer direct knowledge of God and can be traced back to Islam's seventh-century origins. A central practice of Sufism is the zikr, an ecstatic dance in which men move in circles while chanting prayers for hours on end. The result is a trance-like state that gave birth to the term whirling dervish. In 1864, noted Karny, Moscow was so ``unnerved'' by the hold that the zikr held over Chechens that it outlawed its performance. To take part in a zikr became a capital offense and the Russians slaughtered thousands of Chechens unwilling to go along with the decree and banished many others to Siberia. The zikr is no longer outlawed, but Chechens have kept resisting Russian rule. Between 1922 and 1943 alone, there were five separate Chechen uprisings. In 1944, Stalin deported almost the entire Chechen nation to what is now the Central Asian republic of Kazakhstan, claiming that it had plotted with the Nazis against the Soviet Union. In the late 1950s, the Chechens were allowed to return to their mountainous homeland. With the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991, Chechen leader Dzhokhar Dudayev declared his nation independent. In December 1994, Moscow sent in a large force to quell the revolt, maintaining that Chechnya was a gangster-ruled, renegade region that was part and parcel of the Russian Republic. President Boris Yeltsin predicted a quick victory. The events of recent days have shown just how far from accomplishing that goal Moscow remains. The desire for political independence is what prompted the latest revolt against Moscow, said Sa'id Benno, a Chechen community leader living in Amman, Jordan, where he was once King Hussein's minister of public works. But as Chechens have come to realize that neither the West nor other Muslim nations are willing to challenge Russia and come to their aid, the religious dimension of the struggle has grown for Chechens, Benno said in a telephone interview from his home. For one, identifying the conflict as the struggle of an oppressed Muslim minority has enabled the Chechens to gain the support of some radical Islamists -- the so-called mujahadeen fighters who also turned up in Bosnia to help that nation's Muslim-led government fight Orthodox Christian Serbs. While only a relative handful of mujahadeen are in Chechnya, Benno noted that many more non-Chechen Muslims have contributed humanitarian aid to the Chechen cause. In Jordan, where about 15,000 Chechens live, several million dollars have been collected for Chechen aid, he said. Shashani, the Penn State professor, noted a second reason for the Chechen fighters' increased emphasis on Islam. ``Chechens realize they only have themselves, that the world has abandoned them to the Russians,'' said Shashani, who lives in Pittsburgh. ``When you have no faith left in mankind, then there is only Allah to turn to. Allah has sustained Chechens through terrible times in the past, and he will do so again. ``We have nowhere else to turn.'' From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed Jan 31 12:04:50 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA21257; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 07:32:50 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id HAA23594; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 07:05:05 -0500 Received: from mail-e.bcc.ac.uk by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id HAA23589; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 07:05:00 -0500 Received: from link-1.ts.bcc.ac.uk by mail-e.bcc.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:04:54 +0000 Message-Id: <28367.9601311204@link-1.ts.bcc.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Islam a Prerequisite to Sufism? To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:04:50 +0000 (GMT) From: Ahmad Sheikh In-Reply-To: <9601301650.AA13000@kirin.Tymnet.COM> from "Michael J. Moore" at Jan 30, 96 08:50:26 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 592 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Did God not name mysticism before islam in Christianity as Ruhbania and abolished that particular way in Islam. I would be pleased if you could give some solid and conlusive evidence to support your claims. > > Before Islam there was Sufism. > Before Islam there was Islam. > Both remained unnamed. > When these were named, then people claimed them. > To the degree that people who claim them are different, > they are different. > There is still the unnamed Sufism and > there is still the unnamed Islam, > and they are still the same. > (IMHO) > -Brother Michael- > > OH Brother! > From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed Jan 31 08:22:36 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA07621; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 09:12:45 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id IAA29555; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:26:27 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id IAA29519; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:26:21 -0500 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA13463; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:23:37 -0500 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:23:36 +0001 (EST) From: arsalaan fay Subject: Whirling & VOA To: tariqas@facteur.std.com In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: > Dancers in colorful costumes spin and twirl like toy tops around and around > and around and around, whirling themselves into a hypnotic trance, totally > oblivious to the audience before them. Tourists and Egyptians alike are > mesmerized by the whirling dervishes, billed simply as sufi dancers. But > history professor Huda Lutfi says whirling dancers are not what sufism is > about. Peace The idea that "sufi dancers" enter a hypnotic trance implies absense rather than presence, and is mistaken. Prehaps it is a problem with translation, but I believe that the word "trance" was used by english speakers who didn't understand what was happening or why. The semazen (Turner) knows who he is, and where he is in each moment, and the ritual, at least for the Mevlevi (Whirling Dervishes) is done as a service. Those open to the spirit can be transformed from witnessing this. Today, unfortunately the ritual is sometimes done as entertainment for tourists by athletes rather than mystical practice by dervishes. Allah is Kind Allah is Kindness "Arsalaan" Douglas Fay From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed Jan 31 15:15:29 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA16657; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:58:50 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id KAA08507; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:18:15 -0500 Received: from fastmail.worldweb.net by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id KAA08348; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:14:46 -0500 Received: from dns.worldweb.net (dns.worldweb.net [204.117.218.2]) by fastmail.worldweb.net (8.7.2/8.7.2) with SMTP id KAA16123 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:18:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from JIM ([204.117.218.147]) by dns.worldweb.net with SMTP; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:31:32 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960131151529.002ed880@worldweb.net> X-Sender: jmccaig@worldweb.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:15:29 -0500 To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: James McCaig Subject: Re: Islam a Prerequisite to Sufism? Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: At 12:04 PM 1/31/96 +0000, Ahmad Sheikh wrote: > >Did God not name mysticism before islam in Christianity as Ruhbania >and abolished that particular way in Islam. I would be pleased if >you could give some solid and conlusive evidence to support your >claims. >> Dear Ahmad Sheikh, Being no expert on Islam, I will again rely upon the wisdom of Hazrat Inayat Khan who writes: THE FOUR GRADES OF KNOWLEDGE IN ISLAM In Islam there is no caste, as the message was meant to unite humanity in one brotherhood, and yet it was found necessary to train individuals according to their evolution in life. A training was given in four grades, namely Shariat, Tariqat, Haqiqat, and Marefat. Since the world of Islam became engaged in national and social affairs, the religious authorities held on to Shariat only, and a few pious ones to Tariqat. It was the latter who sought the door of the Sufi, wanting an initiation into the inner light which was contained in the two remaining grades, Haqiqat and Marefat. Two immediate disciples of the Prophet, Ali and Siddiq, were initiated by the Prophet, and they became the great masters of the inner teachings of the knowledge of God. The Sufis who lived at the same time as the Prophet were benefited by his presence and the inspiration they gained in Sufism, which is soon reached through the path of Shariat, Tariqat, Haqiqat, and Marefat. Shariat means the law which is necessary for the generality to observe, in order to harmonize with one's surroundings and with one's self within. Although the religious authorities of Islam have limited this law to restrictions, yet in a thousand places in the Qur'an and Hadith one can trace how the law of Shariat is meant to be subject to change, in order to suit the time and place. The law of Shariat, unlike any other religious law, deals with all aspects of life and that is why the Prophet of Islam had personally to experience all aspects of life. The Prophet as an orphan, as a warrior, as a politician, as a merchant, as a shepherd, as a king, as a husband, as a father, as a brother, as a son and a grandson, had to play different parts in various aspects of life in the world before he was ready to give this divine law. Tariqat means the understanding of law besides the following of it. It means that we must understand the cause behind everything we should do or not do, instead of obeying the law without understanding it. Those who are less evolved are supposed to have faith and to submit to the law. The law is for those whose intelligence does not accept things that cannot be explained by reason. Haqiqat means knowing the truth of our being and the inner laws of nature. This knowledge widens man's heart. When he has realized the truth of being, he has realized the one Being; then he is different from nobody, distant from no one, one with all. This is the grade in which religion ends and Sufism begins. Marefat means the actual realization of God, the one Being, when there is no doubt anywhere. When these four grades are accomplished, then Sufism comes into full play. Sufi comes from Saf meaning pure; not only pure from differences and distinctions, but even pure from all that is learnt and known. That is the state of God, the pure and perfect One. Maharaj James McCaig | Sufi Center of Washington Brotherhood/Sisterhood Representative | Keepers of Sufi Center Bookstore United States | http://guess.worldweb.net/sufi jmccaig@worldweb.net From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed Jan 31 15:55:01 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA11121; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:35:31 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id KAA12311; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:55:08 -0500 Received: from homer22.u.washington.edu by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id KAA12295; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:55:04 -0500 Received: by homer22.u.washington.edu (5.65+UW96.01/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id AA80439; Wed, 31 Jan 96 07:55:02 -0800 X-Sender: zamyat@homer22.u.washington.edu Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 07:55:01 -0800 (PST) From: Zamyat Kirby To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Islam a Prerequisite to Sufism? In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19960131151529.002ed880@worldweb.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Dear James I have enjoyed your recent postings from Hazrat Inayat Khan. Could you please mention the specific sources when you quote these passages? I am familiar with the Gathas in which is found the description of the Heart and Wings. where is the second passage on Islam from? Unity of Religious Ideals? somehow it doesn't have quite the feeling of that volume? thanks, Zamyat From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed Jan 31 16:47:56 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA16364; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:26:25 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id LAA19846; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:47:43 -0500 Received: from tymix.Tymnet.COM by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id LAA19807; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:47:36 -0500 Received: by tymix.Tymnet.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14555; Wed, 31 Jan 96 08:47:28 PST Received: from antares by tymix.Tymnet.COM (in.smtpd); 31 Jan 96 8:47:28 PST Received: from kirin.Tymnet.COM by antares.Tymnet.COM (8.6.5/UCB) id IAA06275; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:47:27 -0800 Received: by kirin.Tymnet.COM (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA13438; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:47:56 -0800 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:47:56 -0800 From: mmoore@antares.Tymnet.COM (Michael J. Moore) Message-Id: <9601311647.AA13438@kirin.Tymnet.COM> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Islam a Prerequisite to Sufism? X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: You have been very kind in your reply. I cannot answer your question on mysticism; I no longer know what it means. That is, the word kept gathering meaning until it meant nothing at all. Also, I do not know what Rubania means so I am hardly in a position to equate it to mysticism. As for solid evidence; I have found nothing solid in this dunya. So it seems that I will not be able to please you. I believe that Adam was surrendering to Allah(SWT). And with his surrendering he was a Sufi. There is no surrender without extra-cognition/Sufism. But this is my belief, you need not be conserned with it, it is of little significants. Perhaps others more qualified can provide you with the kind of scholarly dissertation that I believe you are looking for. Assalam alaykum. -Michael- > > Did God not name mysticism before islam in Christianity as Ruhbania > and abolished that particular way in Islam. I would be pleased if > you could give some solid and conlusive evidence to support your > claims. > > > > Before Islam there was Sufism. > > Before Islam there was Islam. > > Both remained unnamed. > > When these were named, then people claimed them. > > To the degree that people who claim them are different, > > they are different. > > There is still the unnamed Sufism and > > there is still the unnamed Islam, > > and they are still the same. > > (IMHO) > > -Brother Michael- > > > > OH Brother! > > > From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed Jan 31 17:22:07 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA06596; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:56:24 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id MAA25189; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:20:38 -0500 Received: from emout07.mail.aol.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id MAA25143; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:20:16 -0500 From: Hafizullah@aol.com Received: by emout07.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA18069 for tariqas@europe.std.com; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:22:07 -0500 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:22:07 -0500 Message-Id: <960131122206_210895382@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Whirling & VOA Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: As a Mevlevi and teacher of the Turn, I can verify that what brother Arsalaan says about Turning is true. I believe the description "trance" by Western commentators is an artifact of the deeply impoverished grasp the West has of the dynamics of consciousness. "Let's see... we have sleep and we have waking consciousness (which is obviously the same for all of us), so anything else must be a trance because I don't know what it is." ...never, of course, questioning the trance of wholly subscribing to the 'consensus reality.' In fact Turners experience quite a number of states, some quite ordinary ("god, my arms are tired!") to extremely lucid, joyful, and even ecstatic states wherein the ego has relaxed its deathgrip on the being and allowed the soul to realize its true nature -- all the while conscious of everything going on around them. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed Jan 31 17:16:18 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA11716; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:05:53 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id MAA24179; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:14:51 -0500 Received: from fastmail.worldweb.net by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id MAA24162; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:14:47 -0500 Received: from dns.worldweb.net (dns.worldweb.net [204.117.218.2]) by fastmail.worldweb.net (8.7.2/8.7.2) with SMTP id MAA17060 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:19:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from JIM ([204.117.218.105]) by dns.worldweb.net with SMTP; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:32:24 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960131171618.002f1084@worldweb.net> X-Sender: jmccaig@worldweb.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:16:18 -0500 To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: James McCaig Subject: Re: Islam a Prerequisite to Sufism? Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: At 07:55 AM 1/31/96 -0800, Zamyat Kirby wrote: Dear Zamyat, Right the first time! The passage is from THE UNITY OF RELIGIOUS IDEALS which is Volume IX of the Message series of Hazrat Inayat Khan. Warm regards, my brother, >Dear James > >I have enjoyed your recent postings from Hazrat Inayat Khan. Could you >please mention the specific sources when you quote these passages? I am >familiar with the Gathas in which is found the description of the Heart >and Wings. where is the second passage on Islam from? Unity of >Religious Ideals? somehow it doesn't have quite the feeling of that volume? > >thanks, Zamyat > Maharaj James McCaig | Sufi Center of Washington Brotherhood/Sisterhood Representative | Keepers of Sufi Center Bookstore United States | http://guess.worldweb.net/sufi jmccaig@worldweb.net From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed Jan 31 19:11:18 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA20723; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:48:38 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id OAA12417; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:12:06 -0500 Received: from emout08.mail.aol.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id OAA12410; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:12:03 -0500 From: AQuraishi@aol.com Received: by emout08.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA14361 for tariqas@europe.std.com; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:11:18 -0500 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:11:18 -0500 Message-Id: <960131141117_308370729@emout08.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Yusuf Ali translation -- comments from a copyright attorney Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Peace everyone, The recent questions and comments on the copyright status of the Yusuf Ali translation of the Quran, and possible alterations of it, couldn't help but peak my interest, since I am an attorney. I am not an expert in copyright, though, so I forwarded the question to a good friend of mine, who is a copyright lawyer. Here are her comments. I hope it is helpful. Peace and may the blessings of Ramadan enlighten us all, Asifa ****************************************************************************** **************** A few observations on the copyright discussion. In the U.S. works published after 1976 are protected for the life of the author plus 50 years. Earlier works had a 28 year term, which could then be renewed for an additional 28 years. When the 1976 Act took effect in 1978 it provided that works that were then in their renewal term could add an additional 19 years of protection to bring the total copyright protection period up to 75 years--which was considered more in keeping with the spirit of the "76 Act. What this means for the 1934 edition is that it would have come up for renewal in 1962, and assuming it was renewed, it would be protected until 2009. So the Amana addition is still protected. But as far as the Lebanese publication goes, I couldn't tell you; I don't know how long their copyright terms are, although the longest terms I am aware of are the European life plus 75 years. Note, though, that (in the US, at least), if a work is over 75 years it will be in the public domain, meaning anyone may publish it without having to pay the author or his heirs for the privilege. But you cannot always assume that a work is p.d just because the underlying original is over 75 years old. For example, the Quran is clearly p.d., but a new translation of it would entitle the translator to copyright protection in the translation. Meaning anyone would be free to translate from the original themselves, but could not copy the new translation wholesale. I may be able to shed a bit more light on the question of alterations and modifications. In the US once a work is in the p.d., everyone is free to use it, and misuse it, in any way they choose (with some exceptions for works of fine art which are not worth getting into here). Copyright law will not prevent someone from changing Melville's work and selling it as Melville's (although there may be some state laws that will). This is definiately not the case in most European countries. There the work will also eventually fall into the p.d., but the author, his heirs, and if no heirs the state itself will assume the responsibility, forever retain the rights of integrity--the right to insist that the work not be mutilated or distorted; and the right of attribution--the right to be acknowledged as the author of the work and to prevent others from naming anyone else as the creator. ****************************************************************************** **************** From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed Jan 31 21:56:42 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29258; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 17:49:07 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id RAA05995; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 17:05:34 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id RAA05982; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 17:05:31 -0500 Received: from nova.unix.portal.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA25000; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 16:58:05 -0500 Received: from jobe.shell.portal.com (jobe.shell.portal.com [156.151.3.4]) by nova.unix.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA04801 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:56:48 -0800 Received: (tyagi@localhost) by jobe.shell.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) id NAA27093 for tariqas@world.std.com; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:56:45 -0800 Message-Id: <199601312156.NAA27093@jobe.shell.portal.com> Subject: Dhikr, Circle-Chants, Turning To: tariqas@world.std.com (Tariqas Elist) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:56:42 -0800 (PST) From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (Haramullah) Orientation: House of Kaos, St. Joseph, Kali Fornika, US -- Kali Yuga X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1913 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: 49960131 Peace be with you, my kin! |From: informe@best.com [much deleted] |Sufism -- the term derives from the Arabic word for wool and denotes the |rough woolen garments worn by early Sufi ascetics -- I've heard this many times. Are there alternatives? Shah lists some as I remember and I could dig them up if anyone doesn't do it before me and there is interest. |purports to offer |direct knowledge of God and can be traced back to Islam's seventh-century |origins. I have heard some scholars trace it back further than this (such that it it preceded the religion of Islam or as a 'proto-Sufism' given form by many mystical influences). Comments? |A central practice of Sufism is the zikr, an ecstatic dance in which men |move in circles while chanting prayers for hours on end. 1) I have seen a Naqshbandi video wherein the 'circles' were rings rather than whirlers or turners 2) In that tape (and I gather from other sufis) women were also allowed, I think, though perhaps as another ring |The result is a trance-like state that gave birth to the term whirling |dervish. Are there teachings connecting both of these circular/ring/spinning/turning practices? I once sat in dhikr with a small group of men in which we sat and chanted Arabic phrases while holding crossed-hands with our neighbors. We also turned our heads from side to side with our eyes mostly closed, and I was inspired by the effect upon my mind. I think I was told that this was related or identical with dhikr. Am I mistaken? I gather that the literal meaning of the word 'dhikr' is 'remembrance' and that this may relate to Allah or some exalted state of consciousness, though I welcome additional interpretation. It seems it may take many forms, from various group practices to individual actions. Thank you for your time. Peace be with you, my kin. Haramullah tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed Jan 31 22:55:04 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA03357; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 18:51:10 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id RAA13264; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 17:54:24 -0500 Received: from cwis.unomaha.edu by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id RAA13252; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 17:54:20 -0500 Received: by cwis.unomaha.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA17663; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 16:55:05 -0600 Message-Id: <9601312255.AA17663@cwis.unomaha.edu> Subject: Re: chistia address To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 16:55:04 -0600 (CST) From: Richard Bennett Cc: rbennett@cwis.unomaha.edu (Richard Bennett) In-Reply-To: <9601302214.AA05906@cayenne.southbay.sybase.com.sybase.com> from "Mateen Siddiqui" at Jan 30, 96 02:14:15 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 240 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: 786 dear brother mateen: asalaam, i tried to contact the chistia sheikh in ny last week and the letter was returned to me unsent...do you happen to have the telephone number of the sheikh in endicott ny?? shukran, wasalaam ghani From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Feb 1 02:39:20 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA13378; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 22:10:01 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id VAA12542; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:41:51 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id VAA12532; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:41:48 -0500 Received: from mail.nyc.pipeline.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA23519; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:39:31 -0500 Received: from pipe1.nyc.pipeline.com (sbryquer@pipe1.nyc.pipeline.com [198.80.32.41]) by mail.nyc.pipeline.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA13745 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:39:22 -0500 (EST) From: Simon Bryquer Received: (sbryquer@localhost) by pipe1.nyc.pipeline.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) id VAA21483; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:39:20 -0500 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:39:20 -0500 Message-Id: <199602010239.VAA21483@pipe1.nyc.pipeline.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Journey to the Lord of Power (Dhikr, Circle-Chants, Turning) Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: May I suggest for those interested in understanding the various aspects of 'dhikr' take a look at: 'Journey to the Lord of Power' by Ibn 'Arabi and translated by Rabia Harris. ITI was the publisher years ago. Now I don't know. But the ISBN 0-89281-024-6 (cloth) ISBN 0-89281-018-1 (paper) -- Simon Bryquer From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue Jan 30 ,:44:06 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA16000; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 22:13:15 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id VAA12812; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:44:12 -0500 Received: from desiree.teleport.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id VAA12802; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:44:08 -0500 Received: from linda.teleport.com (bergner@linda.teleport.com [192.108.254.12]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA10643 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 18:44:07 -0800 From: Paul Bergner Received: (bergner@localhost) by linda.teleport.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA05327 for tariqas@facteur.std.com; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 18:44:06 -0800 Message-Id: <199602010244.SAA05327@linda.teleport.com> Subject: Re: chistia address To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 18:44:06 +73600 (PST) In-Reply-To: <9601312255.AA17663@cwis.unomaha.edu> from "Richard Bennett" at Jan 31, 96 04:55:04 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 317 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: try email a 71470.2643@compuserve.com > > 786 > > dear brother mateen: > > asalaam, > > > i tried to contact the chistia sheikh in ny last week and the letter > was returned to me unsent...do you happen to have the telephone number of > the sheikh in endicott ny?? > shukran, > > wasalaam > > ghani > From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Feb 1 02:39:12 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA15354; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 22:12:25 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id VAA12573; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:41:59 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id VAB12560; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:41:56 -0500 Received: from mail.nyc.pipeline.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA23465; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:39:22 -0500 Received: from pipe1.nyc.pipeline.com (sbryquer@pipe1.nyc.pipeline.com [198.80.32.41]) by mail.nyc.pipeline.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA13719 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:39:13 -0500 (EST) From: Simon Bryquer Received: (sbryquer@localhost) by pipe1.nyc.pipeline.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) id VAA21465; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:39:12 -0500 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:39:12 -0500 Message-Id: <199602010239.VAA21465@pipe1.nyc.pipeline.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: (Fwd) Journey to the Lord of Power (Dhikr, Circle-Chants, Turning) Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: In Outbox: Your outgoing mail sbryquer said: May I suggest for those interested in understanding the various aspects of 'dhikr' take a look at: 'Journey to the Lord of Power' by Ibn 'Arabi and translated by Rabia Harris. ITI was the publisher years ago. Now I don't know. But the ISBN 0-89281-024-6 (cloth) ISBN 0-89281-018-1 (paper) -- Simon Bryquer -- Simon Bryquer From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Feb 1 03:41:43 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA17183; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 23:11:37 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id WAA23783; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 22:41:51 -0500 Received: from dns1.uga.edu by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id WAA23760; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 22:41:46 -0500 Received: from cacimbo.ggy.uga.edu (cacimbo.ggy.uga.edu [128.192.40.157]) by dns1.uga.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) with ESMTP id WAA21236 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 22:41:45 -0500 Received: (from btaylor@localhost) by cacimbo.ggy.uga.edu (8.6.10/8.6.10) id WAA01605; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 22:41:44 -0500 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 22:41:43 -0500 (EST) From: "B. Taylor" X-Sender: btaylor@cacimbo To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Journey to the Lord of Power (out of print?) In-Reply-To: <199602010239.VAA21483@pipe1.nyc.pipeline.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: On Wed, 31 Jan 1996, Simon Bryquer wrote: > 'Journey to the Lord of Power' by Ibn 'Arabi and translated by Rabia > Harris. > To my dismay, I have discovered that this book as well as _Bezels of Wisdom_ are out of print. This is the information that the mail order company that I tried to order them from gave me. If anyone knows where some copies of these two books are floating or laying around, I would love to know! -brad From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Feb 1 01:04:43 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA15296; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 00:56:54 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id AAA11960; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 00:17:59 -0500 Received: from tide10.microsoft.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id AAA11920; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 00:17:50 -0500 Received: by tide10.microsoft.com; id VAA23166; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:36:26 -0800 Received: from unknown(157.54.17.74) by tide10.microsoft.com via smap (g3.0.3) id xma023128; Wed, 31 Jan 96 21:35:54 -0800 Received: from xnet2 (xnet2.microsoft.com [157.54.17.205]) by imail2.microsoft.com (8.7.3/8.7.1) with SMTP id VAA06113 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:20:36 -0800 (PST) X-Received: from red-42-msg by xnet2 with receive; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:17:15 -0800 X-Msmail-Message-Id: CB93C5EF X-Msmail-Conversation-Id: CB93C5EF From: Richard Rozsa To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 21:16:02 TZ Subject: Re: Journey to the Lord of Power (out of print?) X-Msxmtid: red-42-msg960201051642MTP[01.52.00]000000b3-50684 Message-Id: red-42-msg960201051642MTP[01.52.00]000000b3-50684 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Brad, A quick look on the web turned up these references from the "Sufism: An Annotated Resource Guide" (URL = http://bronze.ucs.indiana.edu/~pyachnes/sufbib.html) which I've listed below. Knowing the publisher might help in your search. You might check with Sufi Books in New York for "Journey to the Lord of Power". Sorry, I don't have their number. For "The Bezels of Wisdom", Beshara Publications publishes two different translations of this work, the second being a 4 volume set translated by Bulent Rauf. You can may be able to reach them via: Beshara Foundation P.O. Box 422283 San Francisco, CA 94142-2283 (415) 333-8403 Failing the above, used book stores can sometimes search for books for you. Ibn al-`Arabi, Muhyi ad-Din. Journey to the Lord of Power: A Sufi Manual on Retreat. Translated by RabiaTerri Harris. New York: Inner Traditions International, 1981 This manual of instruction on khalwah, or spiritual retreat, by the great spiritual master, Ibn al-`Arabi (1165-1240), provides unique insight into this important Sufi practice. Ibn al-`Arabi, Muhyi ad-Din. The Bezels of Wisdom. Translated by R. W. J. Austin. Ramsey, NJ: Paulist Press,1980. Ibn al-`Arabi's (1165-1240) famous work of prophetology. Allegorically represents the Prophets as dimensions of man's inner being. Difficult but rewarding. I've been casually searching for a copy of "Journey to the Lord of Power" so I'd be grateful for a note should you find a source. All the best, Richard. ---------- | From: "B. Taylor" | To: | Subject: Re: Journey to the Lord of Power (out of print?) | Date: Wednesday, January 31, 1996 10:41PM | | X-Received: from xnet1 by red-42-msg with receive; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 20:10:19 -0800 | X-Received: from imail1 by xnet1 with recvsmtp; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 20:10:12 -0800 | Received: from tide03.microsoft.com (red-03-int.microsoft.com | [157.61.218.13]) by imail1.microsoft.com (8.7.1/8.7.1) with | SMTP id UAA05652 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 | 20:13:41 -0800 (PST) | Received: by tide03.microsoft.com; id UAA16018; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 20:19:45 -0800 | Received: from europe.std.com(192.74.137.10) by tide03.microsoft.com via smap (g3.0.3) | id xma015976; Wed, 31 Jan 96 20:19:14 -0800 | Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) | id WAA23783; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 22:41:51 -0500 | Received: from dns1.uga.edu by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) | id WAA23760; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 22:41:46 -0500 | Received: from cacimbo.ggy.uga.edu (cacimbo.ggy.uga.edu | [128.192.40.157]) by dns1.uga.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) with ESMTP id | WAA21236 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 | 22:41:45 -0500 | Received: (from btaylor@localhost) by cacimbo.ggy.uga.edu | (8.6.10/8.6.10) id WAA01605; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 22:41:44 -0500 | X-Sender: btaylor@cacimbo | In-Reply-To: <199602010239.VAA21483@pipe1.nyc.pipeline.com> | Message-ID: | MIME-Version: 1.0 | Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII | Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com | Precedence: bulk | X-MsXMTID: xnet1960201041012RECVSMTP[01.52.00]000000bc-56881 | | On Wed, 31 Jan 1996, Simon Bryquer wrote: | | > 'Journey to the Lord of Power' by Ibn 'Arabi and translated by Rabia | > Harris. | > | | To my dismay, I have discovered that this book as well as _Bezels of Wisdom_ | are out of print. This is the information that the mail order company that I | tried to order them from gave me. If anyone knows where some copies of | these two books are floating or laying around, I would love to know! | | -brad | From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Feb 1 01:15:35 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA22472; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 01:17:50 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id AAA16807; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 00:54:22 -0500 Received: from aloha.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id AAA16795; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 00:54:17 -0500 Received: from dialup51.aloha.com (dialup11.aloha.com [204.182.47.211]) by aloha.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id TAA04774 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 19:54:13 -1000 Received: by dialup51.aloha.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BAF015.C107C000@dialup51.aloha.com>; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 19:53:12 -1000 Message-Id: <01BAF015.C107C000@dialup51.aloha.com> From: "Jacques L. Yerby" To: "'tariqas@europe.std.com'" Subject: RE: SAUDI BLACKMAIL TO BE DEBATED IN BRITISH PARLIAMENT -- MER Special, 1/23/96 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 15:15:35 -1000 Encoding: 24 TEXT, 45 UUENCODE X-Ms-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: On Friday, January 26, 1996 11:42 AM, Steve H Rose[SMTP:habib@world.std.com] wrote: >Assalamu alaikum. > >I have sent a note to MIDDLEEAST@AOL.COM requesting that purely political >material not be sent to the tariqas list. Insh'Allah, they will stop >sending it. This list is for sharing on spiritual topics and our own >live's experiences -- not for political material or argument. > >Yours, > >habib rose >host of tariqas > > I agree with you. I am interested in his/her point of view but do not necessarily agree with it. I have subscibed to the service, but do not wish to see it here. Jacques -- ================================================================= Jacques L. Yerby via Microsoft Exchange jyerby@aloha.com Ke Iki Hale, North Shore, Oahu, Hawaii begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(@T%`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$-@ 0` M`@````(``@`!!) &`"@!```!````# ````,``# #````"P`/#@`````"`?\/ M`0```$L`````````@2L?I+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!T87)I<6%S0&5U``,P`0```!<```!T87)I<6%S0&5U)S=&5M`H,S-P+D!Q,"@S0$1A,S M,2!:5 20;0N %/4U%7U&M&EX"8!S$[ "@S82QW41=3 4MGT*@ C/"=D[\1M_ M,C4U`H *@0VQ"V!@;F2 R-B%0,3E$.38B(#$Z-!'@00I-(5!3$]!V92!( M`P?Q$;!;4TU44#I!$8!B:6) =P6P;!QD+A/ ). %H&U=(-9W`V 3T#H*A#X? MGQ^!-26B8P5 0000!T!A;01U("A!:6MU;2[["H0F;S F7R=H*2\J/RM/^"!) 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B0 `(, "4":!"\+H!'@`]``$````%````4D4Z( ````!H?@`' ` end From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Feb 1 08:34:55 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA26857; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 03:54:10 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id DAA28961; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 03:35:02 -0500 Received: from well.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id DAA28956; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 03:34:58 -0500 Received: from LOCALNAME (sf-tty32-ppp.well.com [206.15.64.131]) by well.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA10807 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 00:34:55 -0800 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 00:34:55 -0800 Message-Id: <199602010834.AAA10807@well.com> X-Sender: dno@well.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: dno@well.com (Kevin O'Malley) Subject: Re: Journey to the Lord of Power (out of print?) Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Out from lurking for a book reference. -- Siddiq in San Francisco >Ibn al-`Arabi, Muhyi ad-Din. Journey to the Lord of Power: A Sufi >Manual on Retreat. Translated by RabiaTerri Harris. New York: Inner >Traditions International, 1981 New edition, copyright 1989 Jerrahi Order of America. Inner Traditions International One Park Street Rochester, Vermont 05767 -- "Distributed to the book trade in the US by Harper & Rowe Publishers, Inc." >From near the opening: "Know that since God created human beings and brought them out of nothingness into existence, they have not stopped being travelers. They have no resting place from their journey except in the Garden or the Fire, and each Garden or Fire is in accordance with the measure of its people..." From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Feb 1 10:35:06 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA13498; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 05:56:03 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id FAA04831; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 05:31:43 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id FAA04826; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 05:31:41 -0500 Received: from UNiX.asb.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA08165; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 05:26:09 -0500 Received: from asb12 (sls2.asb.com [165.254.128.12]) by UNiX.asb.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id FAA29117; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 05:35:06 -0500 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 05:35:06 -0500 Message-Id: <199602011035.FAA29117@UNiX.asb.com> X-Sender: fhaddad@unix.asb.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: msa-ec@facteur.std.com, tariqas@world.std.com From: fhaddad@unix.asb.com (Fouad Haddad) Subject: [11] On dhikr (Remembrance of God) Cc: soc-religion-islam@telerama.lm.com X-Mailer: Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: [11] ON DHIKR (from NUZHAT AL-MAJALIS) More Benefits of "LA ILAHA ILLALLAH" ("No god but the One God") 1. It Signifies Forgiveness God has created a pillar made of ruby and light whose foundation is the pillar beneath the seventh earth and whose top winds around the base of God's throne. Every time a servant of God says: "There is no god but God, Muhammad is the Messenger of God," the earth, the whale*, and the throne move, and God says: "Be still!" and the throne replies, "By Thy might, not until you forgive the one who said "La ilaha illallah."" But God says: "Be still, for I have made a covenant with Myself before I created My creation, whereby I shall not cause it to be spoken by the tongue of a servant of Mine except that I have forgiven him even before he says it." *Shaykh Hisham wrote in his "Angels Unveiled," in the chapter entitled "The Angel That Carries the Whale That Carries Creation": "In the beginning God Almighty in His majesty created a huge jewel of green peridot. No one but He knows its size. Then the Lord trained His gaze onto that jewel and looked on it with a glance of awe. Under the influence of God's gaze, this jewel became liquid and began to undulate. It turned into a sea and began to boil and churn and was moved from its depths. As it boiled, it began to evaporate, and steam rose up from it. This vapor continued to rise, and below it remained a thickening, coagulated, precious mass. From the layers of vapor the Lord of the worlds created the seven heavens, and from the remaining primordial mass he created seven layers which He then made into the seven earths. The thickness of each of the layers of heaven and earth was five hundred thousand light-years, and as for the space separating each of them from the next only God knows it as He said: "Have not the unbelievers then beheld that the heavens and the earth were a mass all sown up, and then we unstitched them and of water fashioned every living thing? Will they not believe?" (21:30) After creating the heavens and the earth, God created a great angel. Between his eyebrows there is a distance of five hundred light-years. He has two wings decorated with great constellations. They spread their lights like flickering fires over his majestic shoulders. One wing represents the East, the other the West. The angel was ordered to bend down his neck. With both his arms he lifted up the whole of creation spanning the East and the West. He carried this burden until he came to rest right beneath the divine Throne. There he will remain until Judgment Day. When he lifted his burden, the angel saw that his feet remained suspended in mid-air. God then ordered the angels to bring from the highest Paradise a stone of red ruby. This heavenly rock was placed beneath the angl's feet so that he found a place for his feet. Now this red ruby remained suspended in mid-air. So the Lord brought an enormous ox which had seventy-thousand legs from Paradise. This ox was so huge that its horns reached from the highest heaven to the foot of the divine Throne. It was immeasurably greater in size than the angel carrying the heavens and the earth. The angels placed the red ruby stone between the horns of the ox where it was firmly grounded; except there was nothing to support the feet of the ox. God, therefore, fashioned a dome-shaped vessel; its breadth was a distance of seven hundred thousand light-years. The angels placed this vessel beneath the feet of the ox. The ox now stood firm. But the vessel was left hanging in the air. From the perfection of His divine power, God created a whale by the name of Lutia. He then ordered the angels to place the vessel on its back, and the ngels obeyed. By the will of God, the vessel stood fast. Now only the whale remained in the air. So God created an angel more beautiful than the new crescent moon. Half of it is fire and half snow. Its constant prayer is: "By the Lord who has made this fire cohabit in peace with this snow, may God bless and forgive His human beings." Thus God made the angel that carries the universes stand on top of the red ruby, placed on top of the ox that rested on the dome-shaped vessel that sat on the whale Lutia who swam in the palm of the angel of opposites like a ring lost in the midst of a great desert." Blessings and Peace on the Prophet, his Family, and his Companions Fouad Haddad Naqshbandi-Haqqani Foundation of Ahl al-Sunna wal-Jama`a URL: http://www.best.com/~informe/mateen/haqqani.html [in 9 languages] From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Feb 1 10:46:17 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA15341; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 06:08:14 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id FAA05684; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 05:46:41 -0500 Received: from mail-e.bcc.ac.uk by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id FAA05679; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 05:46:34 -0500 Received: from link-1.ts.bcc.ac.uk by mail-e.bcc.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:46:22 +0000 Message-Id: <98216.9602011046@link-1.ts.bcc.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Islam a Prerequisite to Sufism? To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:46:17 +0000 (GMT) From: Ahmad Sheikh Cc: tariqas@facteur.std.com In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19960131151529.002ed880@worldweb.net> from "James McCaig" at Jan 31, 96 10:15:29 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2190 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Dear Sir: To illustrate my point in detail, I should like to take this oppurtunity to elaborate on my point. Firstly Sunnah is not tradition by any defination or stretch of imagimation. It is the practice and words of Prophet of Islam. To signify its importance I should like to quote meanings of two verses from Quran (Al Najam) And he (Mohammad) does not speak from the desires of his self. But what he says is revealation, revealed to him. As for the variations in rituals, they only seem logical and should be expected given the span and diversity of situations of the time over which Sunnah was compiled. (Is the inference of insignificance of Sunnah on the basis of variations not similar to the one people use to slag scientific developments and scientist's work). I am not going into the details of the form of Sufism that existed before Islam and hwo high up did those sufis go, I whould just mention its characteristics and what it entails from Quran In one of the verses that define God's friends Allah says that His friends (Wali) are those who are never fearful and sad. They are the ones who accepted (Eman, i.e. they are Momins) and are Mutaqeen (fearful of God in every action). >From Sunnah (Hadith) we are told that Eman cannot be complete until one Loves Prophet more then his self, his wealth, his family and all the people. Not to mention that Eman is all about complete submission to not just what God says but what Prophet, said amongst other things. If one was to cut Sunnah or the prophet of the way then Islamic Sufism falls apart yet again because God says in Quran that If you wish to Love God, then follow the prophet. In the light of these very few quotes, I cannot quite see how, one can slag the Practice and sayings of the prophet without which Quran becomes un explainable to an extent by asking how it gets 'regulated' and it leads to greater differences and still ful fill the criterion for Eman set out by Hadith. I would to finish on what I read in Ibn Arabi commentry on Al-Njam (The star), while explaining Surrah Al Najam. He interprets Al Najam (The star, God swears on) as Prophet Mohammad's Self (Nafs). Ahmad Sheikh From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Feb 1 13:18:04 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA26007; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 08:23:08 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id IAA16324; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 08:23:08 -0500 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24157; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 08:18:05 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id IAA15790; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 08:18:04 -0500 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 08:18:04 -0500 Message-Id: <199602011318.IAA15790@europe.std.com> To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Non-member submission from ["Essop, MF, Dr" ] Status: RO X-Status: >From habib@world.std.com Thu Feb 1 08:18:02 1996 Return-Path: Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id IAA15781; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 08:18:02 -0500 Received: from uctmail.uct.ac.za by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA22269; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 08:14:12 -0500 Received: by uctmail.uct.ac.za (Smail3.1.29.1 #15) id m0thypg-0002yYC; Thu, 1 Feb 96 15:13 SAT Message-Id: Received: by uctmail.uct.ac.za (Mort 2.0a) id 418 from CHEMPATH; Thu Feb 1 15:13:47 1996 From: "Essop, MF, Dr" To: "Abduraman Mohamed (res ass)" , tariqas@world.std.com Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 15:10:27 UTC-2 Subject: Re: Dhikrulaah Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 salam, did you experience anything with your dhikrs ? > Forwarded by: "Abduraman Mohamed (res ass)" > Forwarded to: chempath/mfessop > Date forwarded: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 14:52:59 UTC-2 > From: "Abduraman Mohamed (res ass)" > To: tariqas@world.std.com > Date sent: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 17:10:08 UTC-2 > Subject: Dhikrulaah > Priority: normal > Send reply to: tariqas@world.std.com > As Salaam mu alaikum, > Here follows a short summary of an article, Dhikr, which I have read > including some of my personal experiences in Dhikr. > > The word Dhikr means to remember or to recall. We are commanded by > Allah in the Holy Quraan to remember Him. > "Those who believe, and whose hearts find satisfaction in the > Remembrance of Allah:for without doubt in the Remembrance of Allah > (Dhikrulaah) do hearts find satisfaction..." > Quraan: Surah 13,verse 28. > > Dhikr unites one's mind with its source (i.e. Allah).Dhikr which is > actually the Remembrance of Allah(S.W.T.), > gives satisfaction to the heart; This satisfaction is an internal > experience of the mind, heart and soul. > > It is narrated by certain Walies(Karaamats) and Sahabas that the soul > benefits tremendously from Dhikr. > Every name of Allah is a secret and sacred formula for the problems > of the stresses of this life. > > Dhikr requires concentration of the mind. That is obtained by making > the Niyat(intention) viz. to Dhikr for the Love of Allah(S.W.T.). > It can happen that the final goal can be a mystical experience. > > The unseen world is the real world;By performing the Salaah and Dhikr > regularly we are expressing our willingness to explore the unseen > levels of our bodies. > > The value of ones Dhikr depends on the quality of attention, which in > turn depends on the quality of intention (niyat). > One might ask how is it possible to keep your attention focussed on > the Dhikr? > My answer is (from my experience. Because at first I battled to > concentrate.) regular Dhikr and with time one will be able to master > the art of concentration. > > After being able to concentrate the result will be that the mind will > perform the Dhikr automatically. > > As long as one is absorbed in the Remembrance of Allah(Dhikr) there > is little chance for Satanic temptations. It is the safest refuge > from Shaytaan. > > May Allah(S.W.T.) guide us constantly. > > Was Salaam mu alaikum. > > From Abduraman Mohamed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Feb 1 14:13:31 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA04153; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:18:13 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id JAA22913; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:18:13 -0500 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA27501; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:13:31 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id JAA22302; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:13:31 -0500 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:13:31 -0500 Message-Id: <199602011413.JAA22302@europe.std.com> To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Admin request Status: RO X-Status: >From habib@world.std.com Thu Feb 1 09:13:28 1996 Return-Path: Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id JAA22286; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:13:28 -0500 Received: from ic.net (falcon.ic.net) by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA23545; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:07:56 -0500 Received: from Thunderbird.ic.net by ic.net with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0thzg2-003UaRC; Thu, 1 Feb 96 09:07 WET Message-Id: <3110C929.5425@istco.com> Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 09:07:37 -0500 From: Fernando Leon Organization: ISTC Corp. X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b5 (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: subsribe Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit subscribe tariqas fleon@istco.com From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Feb 1 14:58:18 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA01042; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:41:42 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id JAA28009; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:57:34 -0500 Received: from cwis.unomaha.edu by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id JAA28004; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:57:31 -0500 Received: by cwis.unomaha.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA22051; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 08:58:18 -0600 Message-Id: <9602011458.AA22051@cwis.unomaha.edu> Subject: Re: chistia address To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 08:58:18 -0600 (CST) From: Richard Bennett In-Reply-To: <199602010244.SAA05327@linda.teleport.com> from "Paul Bergner" at Jan 31, 96 06:44:06 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 449 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: 786 asalaaam, dear paul may Allah (swt) reward you thanks from me, ghani > > try email a 71470.2643@compuserve.com > > > > > > 786 > > > > dear brother mateen: > > > > asalaam, > > > > > > i tried to contact the chistia sheikh in ny last week and the letter > > was returned to me unsent...do you happen to have the telephone number of > > the sheikh in endicott ny?? > > shukran, > > > > wasalaam > > > > ghani > > > > From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Feb 1 18:37:30 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA27282; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 15:27:15 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id OAA13685; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 14:01:42 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id OAA13680; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 14:01:39 -0500 Received: from halon.sybase.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28164; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 13:50:41 -0500 Received: from sybase.sybase.com (nntp1.sybase.com) by halon.sybase.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4/SybFW4.0) id AA10053; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:50:54 -0800 Received: from serii.sybase.com ([158.159.40.63]) by sybase.sybase.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/SybH3.4) id AA21458; Thu, 1 Feb 96 10:50:45 PST Received: by serii.sybase.com (5.x/SMI-4.1/SybEC3.2) id AA13068; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:37:30 -0800 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:37:30 -0800 From: mateens@sybase.com (Mateen Siddiqui) Message-Id: <9602011837.AA13068@serii.sybase.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: [7] On dhikr (Remembrance of God) X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: ----- Begin Included Message ----- >From msa-ec-approval@facteur.std.com Mon Jan 29 19:48:31 1996 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 96 12:51:00 PST To: msa-ec@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: [7] On dhikr (Remembrance of God) X-Lines: 130 Auzu Billahi minna shaitani Rajim, Bismillah Irahaman Irahim, Asalatu Asalamu Alaika Ayyuhan Nabi(S) Asalamu Alaikum wa Rahamatullah wa Rahamatullah wa Barakaatuhu, May Allah be Pleasd with all of us, Ramadan Mubarak... This is the beauty in Religion wich I searched (or so I thought), and which I found in Islam. That is the only reason why I am a muslim today, to the extent that If I did not feel my Lord with me I would not be a Muslim; that if I did not love Muhammad(S) and praise him and celebrate his birth and repeat his words and wear his dress and follow his way through those who follow better than me, I would not be a Muslim; that if after I discriminated amongst the way and was shown Sirataal Mustaqim I did not take it I would not be a Muslim. Be Happy! Rejoice Oh! People of Heavens and Pray that Allah let us all enter his Heavens. Praise Sayidinna Muhammad(S) and follow in His footsteps and Read the Qur'aan, and recite it in your spare time. Fill those hours of your life with Allah and Halal and Salawat and Zikhr . I am no teacher! I just heard the news I have have a fatal disease. It is called life, and ends up with death, and lasts but an hour. AN HOUR!!! Subhan'Allah we have a The Most Merciful as our Lord. Subhan'Allah. May Allah make me feel like He does His Saints and faithful, humble and obedient servants. May I feel lost indeed when I'm in other than Him. Astaghfirullah, wa Al Hamdulillah, wa La Ilaha Ilallah, wa Muhammadan Abuduhu wa Rasuluh(S) Let's just be good and do good and see good in All things! Isn't Allah at the source of all things? La Hawla Quwata Ila Billahi'l-Aliul'Azim Al Hamdulillah ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: [7] On dhikr (Remembrance of God) Author: msa-ec@europe.std.com at INTERNET Date: 1/27/96 1:17 PM [7] ON DHIKR (from NUZHAT AL-MAJALIS) Six Benefits of Dhikr (continued) 2. Remittance of Sins Through Dhikr It is related that a servant of God will join the gatherings of dhikr with sins the like of mountains and then rise and leave one such gathering with nothing left of them to his name. This is why the Prophet (s) called it one of the groves of Paradise when he said: "If you pass by the groves of Paradise, be sure to graze in them," and someone said: "What are the groves of Paradise?" to which he replied: "The circles of dhikr." It wil be mentioned again in the chapter on God-wariness (taqwa) insha Allah. `Ata' said - may God the Exalted have mercy on him: "Whoever sits in a gathering in which God is remembered, God will remit for him ten evil gatherings of his." Abu Yazid al-Bistami was told - may God be well pleased with him: "I have entrusted you with a secret for which you shall render Me an account under the Tree of Bliss (shajarat tooba)," whereupon he said: "We are under that tree as long as we remain in the remembrance of God." [Note: Shaykh Hisham said: "May God bless his saints for their piercing awareness, and may He raise their stations higher and not prevent their benefit from reaching us. This statement of our master Bayazid, one of the early saints of the Naqshbandi- Haqqani Golden Chain, typifies the saints who are aware that were they to drift from God's presence even for a second they would cease to exist, even if they were in Paradise. This is why Bayazid elsewhere said: "Among God's servants in Paradise are those who, were they to be denied God's sight for even a single moment, would plead to leave Paradise the way the inhabitants of the Fire plead to be brought out of the Fire." Shaykh `Abd al-Qadir al-Gilani referred to them when he said that for the common person disbelief is a lifetime of heedlessness, whereas for the Most Truthful Saint (siddiq), it is but one second of the same.] It is related on `Ali's authority - may God be well pleased with him - that God manifests Himself (yatajalla) to the rememberers during dhikr and the recitation of Qur'an. The Prophet (s) said: "No group gathers and remembers God seeking nothing other than Him except a caller from heaven calls out to them: "Arise forgiven, for your bad deeds have been turned into good ones!"" Abu al-Darda' said that the Prophet (s) said: "God verily will raise on the Day of resurrection people bearing light in their faces, carried aloft on pulpits of pearl, whom the people will envy. They are neither prophets nor martyrs." Upon hearing this a beduin Arab fell to his knees and said: "Show them to us (ajlihim), O Prophet of God!" - that is: "describe them for us." He replied: "They are those who love one another for God's sake alone. They come from many different tribes, countries, and cities. They gather together for the remembrance of God the Exalted, remembering Him." Someone said concerning God's saying with reference to Solomon - peace be upon him: "I verily will punish him with hard punishment" (27:21) that it means: "Verily I shall drive him far from the gatherings of dhikr"... Al-Junayd said - may God be well pleased with him - concerning God's saying: "And (He is the One) Who causeth me to die, then giveth me life again" (26:81), that this means: "He causes me to die with heedlessness (of Him), then He causes me to live with remembrance (of Him)." Al- Hasan al-Basri said - may God have mercy on him: "No people sit remembering God the Exalted with one of the people of Paradise in their midst except God grants him to intercede for all of them." Blessings and Peace on the Prophet, his Family, and his Companions Fouad Haddad URL: http://www.best.com/~informe/mateen/haqqani.html [in 9 languages] ----- End Included Message ----- From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Feb 1 19:56:14 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA16270; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 16:38:55 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id OAA21513; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 14:57:08 -0500 Received: from netcom17.netcom.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id OAA21500; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 14:57:04 -0500 Received: by netcom17.netcom.com (8.6.12/Netcom) id LAA08912; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 11:56:14 -0800 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 11:56:14 -0800 (PST) From: Steven Finkelman Subject: Help with a word please To: tariqas@facteur.std.com In-Reply-To: <9602011837.AA13068@serii.sybase.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: does any one know the meaning of fatuli, Ya fatuli, or al fatuli? Ari Leib From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Feb 2 00:32:17 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA10624; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 20:16:08 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id TAA08352; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 19:32:26 -0500 Received: from desiree.teleport.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id TAA08337; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 19:32:23 -0500 Received: from kelly.teleport.com (bergner@kelly.teleport.com [192.108.254.10]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA21056 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 16:32:20 -0800 From: Paul Bergner Received: (bergner@localhost) by kelly.teleport.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA29148 for tariqas@facteur.std.com; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 16:32:19 -0800 Message-Id: <199602020032.QAA29148@kelly.teleport.com> Subject: Re: Islam a Prerequisite to Sufism? To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 16:32:17 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <98216.9602011046@link-1.ts.bcc.ac.uk> from "Ahmad Sheikh" at Feb 1, 96 10:46:17 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 787 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: A And also from Ibn Arabi . . . All the revealed religions are lights. Among these religions, the revealed religion of Muhammad is like the light of the sun among the lights of the stars. when the sun appears, the lights of the stars are hidden, and their lights are included in the light of the sun. Their being is hidden like the abrogation of the other revealed religions and takes place through Muhammad's revleade religion. Nevertheless, they do in fact exist, just as the existence of the light of the stars is actualized. This explains why we have been required in our all-inclusive religion to have faith in the truth of all messengers and all the revealed religions. They are not rendered null by abrogation -- that is the opinion of the ignorant. Peace Abdul Mustafa From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Feb 2 01:51:00 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24916; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 21:36:56 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id UAA17028; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 20:51:46 -0500 Received: from island.amtsgi.bc.ca by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id UAA17016; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 20:51:43 -0500 Received: from Quadra.islandnet.com by island.amtsgi.bc.ca with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0tiAep-0005qoC; Thu, 1 Feb 96 17:51 PST Message-Id: Date: Thu, 1 Feb 96 17:51 PST X-Sender: dynamics@islandnet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: dynamics@islandnet.com (Jabreil Hanafi) Subject: Re: Journey to the Lord of Power (out of print?) Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: >Brad I have both of these books. They are not for sale but is there some information you are looking for which I can serve you with. Jabriel > ----------------------------------------- Jabriel Hanafi Dynamics Unlimited Suite 806 327 Maitland Victoria B.C. V9A 7G7 Voice (604) 384 6629 Fax (604) 380 9909 From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Feb 2 04:12:26 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA25624; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 23:50:52 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id XAA01154; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 23:08:40 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id XAA01145; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 23:08:38 -0500 Received: from UNiX.asb.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA06272; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 23:02:48 -0500 Received: from asb23 (sls13.asb.com [165.254.128.23]) by UNiX.asb.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA22281; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 23:12:26 -0500 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 23:12:26 -0500 Message-Id: <199602020412.XAA22281@UNiX.asb.com> X-Sender: fhaddad@unix.asb.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: msa-ec@facteur.std.com, tariqas@world.std.com From: fhaddad@unix.asb.com (Fouad Haddad) Subject: [12] On dhikr (Remembrance of God) Cc: soc-religion-islam@telerama.lm.com X-Mailer: Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: [12] ON DHIKR (from NUZHAT AL-MAJALIS) More Benefits of "LA ILAHA ILLALLAH" ("No god but the One God") (continued) 2. It Possesses Secrets "La ilaha illallah" possesses secrets among which are the following: - All its letters are palatal (hurufuha jawfiyya), which is a subtle indication that to utter it is an act that proceeds from one's innermost, which is the heart. - None of its letters is dotted, a subtle indication of its freedom from any deity other than God. - It has twelve letters (l-a-i-la-ha-i-ll-a-a-l-la-h), which is the number of the months of the year, four of which are sacred, and that is the Name of Majesty (a-l-la-h). One letter stands alone (a), three are connected (l-la-h), and the four together are the best of the twelve, just as the sacred months are the best of the year: dhu al-Qi`da, dhu al-Hijja, al-Muharram, and Rajab (three of them consecutive, and Rajab standing alone). Therefore whoever says it sincerely, his sins for the entire year are remitted. - The night and the day are twenty-four hours, and the two Phrases of Witnessing are twenty-four letters: l - a i - la - ha i - ll - a a - l - la - h mu - ha - mma - dun ra - s - u - l u - l - la - h Each letter thus remits the sins of an hour. - They are seven words in all, and the entrances to Gehenna are seven: each word thus blocks one entrance for the person who utters them. 3. Inanimate Objects Testify to Its Utterance I have read in the book "al-Haqa'iq" (The Spiritual Realities) that a man who stood on `Arafat with seven pebbles in his hand said: "O pebbles, be witness that I testify that there is no god but God alone, and that Muhammad is God's Messenger." Then he threw away the pebbles. That night he dreamt that the Rising of the dead had taken place and that his bad deeds had been found to ountumber his good ones. The order was given to thrown him into the Fire. He then saw the same pebbles blocking the entrances to Gehenna in front of him. The entire host of angels gathered to remove one of the stones but they could not. Then they took the man and went under the Throne. The stones followed after them and began to intercede for him. The order was given to take him to Paradise, whereupon the stones preceded him to the doors of Paradise, and each stone was saying: "O servant of God, enter by my side!" 4. It Remits the Sins of a Lifetime In the time of Moses - peace be upon him - lived a man who had disobeyed his Lord for four hundred and eighty years. God bestowed His kindness upon him unceasingly, until that man came to Moses and said: "There is no god but God, Moses is God's Messenger." Gabriel descended and said: "O Moses, God has forgiven him the sins of four hundred and eighty years." This is because of a phrase of twenty-four letters, each letter remitting the sins of twenty years, and the phrase "Muhammad is God's Messenger" is better than "Moses is God's Messenger." Therefore it is no wonder, for example, that God remits the sins of seventy years when the believer says: "No god but God, Muhammad is God's Messenger." The Prophet (s) said: "No-one on earth says: "There is no god but God alone, and God is Greater, and there is no change nor power except with God, the Exalted, the Tremendous" except his sins are remitted even if they are as abundant as the foam of the sea." Tirmidhi narrated it and he said it is a sound tradition. Blessings and Peace on the Prophet, his Family, and his Companions Fouad Haddad Naqshbandi-Haqqani Foundation of Ahl al-Sunna wal-Jama`a URL: http://www.best.com/~informe/mateen/haqqani.html [in 9 languages] From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Feb 1 23:30:21 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA09884; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 00:23:06 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id XAA04346; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 23:37:18 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id XAA04327; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 23:37:14 -0500 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA18099; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 23:31:22 -0500 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 23:31:21 +0001 (EST) From: Steve H Rose Subject: Tariqas Announcement: Change in settings for the list To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Assalamu alaikum. In response to numerous requests from list members concerned about cross-postings from people not on the tariqas list, I have requested that the settings be changed on tariqas to only allow postings from members of the list. Insh'Allah, that will not affect most people in a negative way, however there is one important issue -- you MUST post your messages to the list from the same email address you have used to subscribe to the list. Otherwise, your messages will probably not get posted to the list, and just get erased. My apologies if this happens, but this seems to be the best alternative available. Yours, habib rose host of tariqas From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Feb 1 23:49:14 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA10694; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 00:24:52 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id XAA05872; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 23:51:21 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id XAA05867; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 23:51:18 -0500 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24789; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 23:50:15 -0500 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 23:50:14 +0001 (EST) From: Steve H Rose Subject: Re: Path of Hearts To: tariqas@facteur.std.com In-Reply-To: <167313.9601291741@link-1.ts.bcc.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: W'alaikum assalam. On Mon, 29 Jan 1996, Ahmad Sheikh wrote: > Assalam Alaikum > I am not quite sure what do you mean by 'path of hearts', in your > introduction of the list. As for as I understand, it was the path > to 'God' on which sufis embarked and heart was no more then one of > the five internal senses (not even the superior most); a sort of > reciever that had to be tuned to catch the right frequency. > It is possible that this description does not in fact correctly represent many (or most) people on this list. It is my path, and I don't know if it truly fits others or not. One of the reasons I mention it is so that, in a following sentence, I can say -- since we all have a heart, we all have something to share. Would you be willing to share more on this question of the five internal senses? I would be very interested in knowing more about them, and which are considered most useful (in different circumstances?). > Furthermore I cannot make much sense of 'flying hearts' (logo of > Hazrat Innayat Khan) as for as my understanding goes, hearts do not > fly, it the Rooh (one of its two forms) that does leave the body > during he flight. > Insh'Allah, someone affiliated with that order will respond. I have always loved that symbol. Yours, habib From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Feb 2 20:36:03 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24202; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 00:46:48 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id AAA09061; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 00:18:40 -0500 Received: from eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id AAA09040; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 00:18:27 -0500 From: aorsellidickson@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au Received: from stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au (stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au [139.230.161.10]) by eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id NAA12792 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 13:17:51 +0800 Message-Id: <199602020517.NAA12792@eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au> X-Nvlenv-01Date-Posted: 2-Feb-1996 13:23:52 -0500; at STINGRAY.ac.cowan X-Nvlenv-Content-Subject: HEARTS FLY X-Nvlenv-Mts-Message-Id: 15551231816C2979 X-Nvlenv-Notify-On-Read: allowed X-Nvlenv-Notify-On-Refusal: allowed X-Nvlipm-Non-Standard: SMF = 000Application-name: PMAIL To: tariqas%facteur.std.com@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au Subject: HEARTS FLY Date: 02 Feb 96 20:36:03 GMT X-Nvlipm-Non-Standard: SMF = 000X-NetWare-UIC: AORSELLIDICKSON Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Dear Haramullah and all the others who have contributed to the recent conversation on symbolism, my response to this most interesting line of thoughts is purely intuitive and in form of poetry. Any response, be it in poetry or prose, will be most welcome. Peace to all HEARTS FLY Hearts fly where minds cannot tread: streaming in light, diving deep soaring high, hearts know only by taste Hearts are cups waiting to be filled by the water of Knowledge, the milk of Love or the honey of Presence The gnostic heart is a crescent at the exact balance point between waxing and waning, waning from this world, waxing into that world: the Way winds between fana and baqa. The threshold neither here or there, neither higher or yonder, both within, every -where, and NOW-HERE Between yes and no where heads are severed and hearts fly, in the isthmus of perplexity, in the openings of the Sea of paradox, there, minds drown and hearts find their rest. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Feb 2 00:09:58 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA26756; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 00:55:31 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id AAA08989; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 00:17:54 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id AAA08984; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 00:17:52 -0500 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA05880; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 00:10:58 -0500 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 00:10:58 +0001 (EST) From: Steve H Rose Subject: Re: Lets get pragmatic (fwd) To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 21:00:50 -0800 To: tariqas@europe.std.com, msa-ec@europe.std.com From: olh@hyperback.com (Bob Olhsson) Subject: Re: Lets get pragmatic At 11:04 PM 1/26/96, Zafar Siddiqui wrote: >Assalamualaikum brothers and sisters, ... I request that we discuss the problems that we are faced with >in the West and their possible solutions. > I can offer some perspective as a U.S. convert to Islam. It is important to differentiate between cultural losses and an individual's loss of consciousness of their relationship with Allah. Cultural loss is a common response that is then followed by a seeking of culture. I had little interest in my father's Swedish culture but now at age 50 I am fascinated by it and actively seek more knowledge about Sweden. My early experience being raised a Christian (Swedish Lutheran) was a very positive one with an inspired teacher. What we were taught, in retrospect, was clearly Islam. Our minister was honest about his problems with the Trinity concept but saw it as a useful tool for teaching about our relationship with God. We were never taught to worship Jesus the man. He had little tolerance for disrespect of other churches and religions since we all OBVIOUSLY worshipped the SAME, ONE God. It was made clear to us that all differences were the creation of mankind and that these were mostly arguments and opinions about details of authority that no mortal could ever really know for a fact and that they have no bearing on one's actual relationship with God. I actually saw this man unify many of the Lutheran churches in the U.S. and create a unified form or worship for Roman Cahtolic, Lutheran and Epispical churches in the U.S. by effectively teaching that there is none but ONE God. Having had such an inspired teacher, his very uninspired "church social director" style replacement left me out in the cold. Islam clearly embodied his natural approach to religion and incorporates all that he taught me of Christianity and more. The most pragmatic thing we can do is to find the experience of Allah that Islam came from. Respect for all of Allah's creation is at the top of my list. Peace in our experience of the truth of Allah's existance is a key to our ultimate power as humans. Bickering about unknowable details is a road to powerlessness and to the warfare a sense of powerlessness can lead to. The cultural diversity we have in the U.S. demands that religion be taught and practiced from the core of the individual. Each step I have taken into Islam has been at the same time ten steps into the core of the Christianity I was first taught. Once the basics are addressed, I think the rest can and will fall in place. Bob Bob Olhsson Audio |O tongue, thou art a treasure without end. And, Box 555,Novato CA 94948 |O tongue, thou art also a disease without remedy. 415.457.2620 | 415.456.1496 FAX | == Jelal'uddin Rumi == From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Feb 2 00:14:08 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28089; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 01:01:05 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id AAA09204; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 00:20:54 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id AAA09180; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 00:20:50 -0500 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA07222; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 00:15:09 -0500 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 00:15:08 +0001 (EST) From: Steve H Rose Subject: Salih i noor institue (fwd) To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 08:31:29 +0200 From: Mohammed Hassim To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Salih i noor institue Salaam, I am looking for an address of Ustad Bediuzzaman. I looking into studying his works and books he wrote. Any help will be appreciated. Regards Mohammed Hassim hassimmr@telkom09.telkom.co.za From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Feb 2 00:35:49 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA01070; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 01:12:31 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id AAA11211; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 00:40:48 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id AAA11204; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 00:40:45 -0500 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA20952; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 00:36:50 -0500 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 00:36:49 +0001 (EST) From: Steve H Rose Subject: Re: Islam a Prerequisite to Sufism? To: tariqas@facteur.std.com In-Reply-To: <199602020032.QAA29148@kelly.teleport.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: On Thu, 1 Feb 1996, Paul Bergner wrote: > And also from Ibn Arabi . . . > > All the revealed religions are lights. Among these religions, the > revealed religion of Muhammad is like the light of the sun among the > lights of the stars. when the sun appears, the lights of the stars are > hidden, and their lights are included in the light of the sun. Their > being is hidden like the abrogation of the other revealed religions and > takes place through Muhammad's revleade religion. Nevertheless, they do > in fact exist, just as the existence of the light of the stars is > actualized. This explains why we have been required in our all-inclusive > religion to have faith in the truth of all messengers and all the > revealed religions. They are not rendered null by abrogation -- that is > the opinion of the ignorant. Assalamu alaikum. I'm not sure of the relative value of teachings. But I am pretty sure that much of the value that we place on teachings is relative to our own perspective. From the perspective of a planet circling one of those other stars, our sun is another star. Yours, habib rose From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Feb 2 06:26:00 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA05126; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 01:31:19 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id BAA15120; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 01:31:18 -0500 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA04012; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 01:26:01 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id BAA14622; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 01:26:00 -0500 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 01:26:00 -0500 Message-Id: <199602020626.BAA14622@europe.std.com> To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Admin request Status: RO X-Status: >From habib@world.std.com Fri Feb 2 01:25:58 1996 Return-Path: Received: from relay2.UU.NET by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id BAA14615; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 01:25:57 -0500 From: Jinavamsa@aol.com Received: from emout06.mail.aol.com by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP id QQabdh24058; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 01:25:54 -0500 (EST) Received: by emout06.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id BAA26359 for tariqas@europe.std.com; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 01:24:42 -0500 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 01:24:42 -0500 Message-ID: <960202012441_310000672@emout06.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@europe.std.com Subject: Re: Tariqas Announcement: Change in settings for the list In a message dated 96-02-02 01:06:35 EST, you write: >Insh'Allah, that will not affect most people in a negative way, however >there is one important issue -- you MUST post your messages to the list >from the same email address you have used to subscribe to the list. >Otherwise, your messages will probably not get posted to the list, and >just get erased. My apologies if this happens, but this seems to be the >best alternative available. >Yours, >habib rose >host of tariqas Thank you habib, The issue seems to have arisen because of one group sending out its "news updates" to the tariqas group, even though the request has been made that they stop. Isn't there a way to block their particular reception by the filter, rather than eliminating all others from sister (and brother) groups that might have something of value that all at tariqas would be happy to see posted? and allowing people to post even if not from their home computer? just a thought. in peace, Jinavamsa From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Feb 1 22:28:49 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA11503; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 02:04:52 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id BAA13372; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 01:09:22 -0500 Received: from relay6.UU.NET by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id BAA13361; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 01:09:19 -0500 From: lisa.rapp@autodesk.com Received: from adeskgate.autodesk.com by relay6.UU.NET with ESMTP id QQabcc18576; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 17:38:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from autodesk.autodesk.com by adeskgate.autodesk.com (8.6.12/4.4BSD) with ESMTP id OAA06479; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 14:37:53 -0800 Received: from unix2cc.autodesk.com by autodesk.autodesk.com (8.6.12/4.4BSD) with ESMTP id OAA03190; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 14:34:28 -0800 Received: from smtpcc.autodesk.com by unix2cc.autodesk.com (8.6.5/4.4BSD) with SMTP id OAA20680; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 14:34:31 -0800 Received: from cc:Mail by smtpcc.autodesk.com id AA823214219; Thu, 01 Feb 96 14:28:49 PST Date: Thu, 01 Feb 96 14:28:49 PST Message-Id: <9601018232.AA823214219@smtpcc.autodesk.com> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: nightengale and the rose Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Asalmu Aleykum, A friend of mine who does not have Internet access asked me to see if anyone on tariqas knows what the symbolism of "the nightengale and the rose" is in Sufism/Islam. Any information would be appreciated! Thanks. Allah's Peace to you. lisa. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Feb 2 06:28:30 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA13328; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 02:14:26 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id BAA14872; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 01:28:36 -0500 Received: from dns1.uga.edu by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id BAA14866; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 01:28:32 -0500 Received: from cacimbo.ggy.uga.edu (cacimbo.ggy.uga.edu [128.192.40.157]) by dns1.uga.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) with ESMTP id BAA14538 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 01:28:31 -0500 Received: (from btaylor@localhost) by cacimbo.ggy.uga.edu (8.6.10/8.6.10) id BAA05021; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 01:28:30 -0500 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 01:28:30 -0500 (EST) From: "B. Taylor" X-Sender: btaylor@cacimbo To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Journey to the Lord of Power (out of print?) In-Reply-To: red-42-msg960201051642MTP[01.52.00]000000b3-50684 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Richard, Assalaam Aleikum. Thank you for the very informative post. > For "The Bezels of Wisdom", Beshara > Publications publishes two different translations of this work, the > second being a 4 volume set translated by Bulent Rauf. Wow. Is this a complete translation of Fusus al-Hikam? I have the Titus Burkhardt partial translation under the title _Wisdom of the Prophets_ which I noticed is published by Beshara as well. > Ibn al-`Arabi, Muhyi ad-Din. Journey to the Lord of Power: A Sufi > Manual on Retreat. Translated by RabiaTerri Harris. New York: Inner > Traditions International, 1981 > This manual of instruction on khalwah, or spiritual retreat, by the > great spiritual master, Ibn al-`Arabi (1165-1240), provides unique > insight into this important Sufi practice. I found this today at a "new age" bookstore in Atlanta! > > Ibn al-`Arabi, Muhyi ad-Din. The Bezels of Wisdom. Translated by R. W. > J. Austin. Ramsey, NJ: Paulist Press,1980. > Ibn al-`Arabi's (1165-1240) famous work of prophetology. Allegorically > represents the Prophets as dimensions of > man's inner being. Difficult but rewarding. This was the copy I was originally trying to find. > > I've been casually searching for a copy of "Journey to the Lord of > Power" so I'd be grateful for a note should you find a source. I'll ask them where they got it from and relate the info. Thanks again for your help. -brad From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Feb 2 09:54:22 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24455; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 10:43:01 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id JAA02128; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:56:36 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id JAA02086; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:56:31 -0500 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA20384; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:55:22 -0500 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:55:22 +0001 (EST) From: arsalaan fay Subject: reference To: tariqas@facteur.std.com In-Reply-To: <199602020534.VAA20380@tuna.hooked.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Peace I have often heard sufis say "Say Allah and Allah you will become", but I have never seen a reference. Does any one know where this wonderful quote comes from? Arsalaan Fay From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Feb 2 14:11:21 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA05584; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 10:58:40 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id KAA04949; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 10:13:09 -0500 Received: from relay6.UU.NET by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id KAA04927; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 10:13:05 -0500 Received: from fastmail.worldweb.net by relay6.UU.NET with ESMTP id QQabem26153; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:11:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from dns.worldweb.net (dns.worldweb.net [204.117.218.2]) by fastmail.worldweb.net (8.7.2/8.7.2) with SMTP id JAA02755 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:14:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from JIM ([204.117.218.172]) by dns.worldweb.net with SMTP; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 10:27:49 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960202141121.002de394@worldweb.net> X-Sender: jmccaig@worldweb.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 02 Feb 1996 09:11:21 -0500 To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: James McCaig Subject: Re: HEARTS FLY Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: At 08:36 PM 2/2/96 GMT, aorsellidickson@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au wrote: >Dear Haramullah and all the others who have contributed to the recent conversation on >symbolism, > my response to this most interesting line of thoughts is purely intuitive and in form of poetry. >Any response, be it in poetry or prose, will be most welcome. Dear Tariqa, Although not exactly to the point of the beautiful "HEARTS FLY" posting, this little effort is offered with love to the group. Maharaj SUFI DANCER Whirling over the ballroom with smile alight she appeared in a dream one mystical night In this the first of many encounters she stirred my heart and inspired the will to chase undeterred On each occasion when she chose to grace the stage of concentration and I gave pursuit She skipped out of reach and left me to face the darkness of disappointment, but still resolute Up the ladder of breath to her window so bright stealthily stalking her presence each night She felt eyes upon her, yet gradually relaxed displaying motion and color that finally climaxed in a dance of light impossible to absorb or relate She expanded and grew to fill the night and nature Her presence and power set the world to vibrate to the message she brings from the mighty creator Maharaj James McCaig | Sufi Center of Washington Brotherhood/Sisterhood Representative | Keepers of Sufi Center Bookstore United States | http://guess.worldweb.net/sufi jmccaig@worldweb.net From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Feb 2 18:18:33 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA21432; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:24:26 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id KAA07479; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 10:38:14 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id KAA07456; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 10:38:10 -0500 From: omegapub@taconic.net Received: from host.taconic.net by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29887; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 10:21:38 -0500 Received: from ch_anx_p6.taconic.net by host.taconic.net; (5.65/1.1.8.2/13Jul95-1105AM) id AA06527; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 10:23:20 -0500 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 96 10:18:33 PST Subject: FW: journey to lord of power, bezels To: tariqas@world.std.com X-Mailer: Chameleon V0.05, TCP/IP for Windows, NetManage Inc. Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: I don't know where this went the first time, but it didn't seem to reach tariqas, so here it comes again... On Thu, 1 Feb 96 10:42:24 PST omegapub@taconic.net wrote: > >For those interested: >Journey to the Lord of Power is not out of print. It is currently being >reprinted by the publisher (Inner Traditions), and is expected back in >circulation by early next month. >Checking on the status of the Paulist Press edition of Bezels of >Wisdom: it will most certainly be reprinted but they don't yet have a date. >There are frequently times when some element of the book industry claims a >title is out of print, when the title is actually available, or perhaps just in between printings (in print, but out of stock). Once started, >like a rumor, this misinformation can be very difficult to stop! > >When available, both titles can be obtained through Omega Press at this >e-mail address, or phone 800-443-7107 (outside USA, call 518-794-8181), or >fax 518-794-8187, or hand-delivered mail to 256 Darrow Rd, New Lebanon NY >12125. MC and Visa accepted. Shipping within the USA is $3. > >* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * >With all best wishes, >Abi'l-Khayr >Date: 02/01/96 Time: 10:42:24 > >"The alchemy is in the stilling > of the heart, when mercury turns > to silver." > --Inayat Khan >* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * With all best wishes, Abi'l-Khayr Date: 02/02/96 Time: 10:18:33 "The alchemy is in the stilling of the heart, when mercury turns to silver." --Inayat Khan * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Feb 2 16:59:01 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA16049; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 12:04:19 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id MAA19715; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 12:04:18 -0500 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA12047; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:59:01 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id LAA18934; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:59:01 -0500 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:59:01 -0500 Message-Id: <199602021659.LAA18934@europe.std.com> To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Non-member submission from [Jawad Qureshi ] Status: RO X-Status: >From habib@world.std.com Fri Feb 2 11:58:58 1996 Return-Path: Received: from indy67.gclab.missouri.edu by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id LAA18922; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:58:57 -0500 Received: (from c640429@localhost) by indy67.gclab.missouri.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA01606; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 10:58:55 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 10:58:55 -0600 (CST) From: Jawad Qureshi X-Sender: c640429@indy67.gclab.missouri.edu To: tariqas@europe.std.com cc: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Salih i noor institue (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > I am looking for an address of Ustad Bediuzzaman. I looking into > studying his works and books he wrote. Assalamo alaiakum dear brother! Here are some of the addresses that I know of on the Internet: http://www.netzone.com/~sbirge/magazine/htm (for the Nur Publications homepage) http://www.engr.wisc.edu/~kose/index.html (for actual selections from the Risale-i Nur) I highly recommend that these two be looked at, and studied. The contents are very important to understanding this world and the next. Wa min Allah at Tawfeeq, Assalamo alaikum wa rahmat Allah, Jawad. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Feb 2 17:03:38 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA22553; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 12:11:31 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id MAA20540; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 12:11:31 -0500 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA15254; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 12:03:38 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id MAA19617; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 12:03:38 -0500 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 12:03:38 -0500 Message-Id: <199602021703.MAA19617@europe.std.com> To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Non-member submission from [Jawad Qureshi ] Status: RO X-Status: >From habib@world.std.com Fri Feb 2 12:03:35 1996 Return-Path: Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id MAA19600; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 12:03:34 -0500 Received: from indy67.gclab.missouri.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA12079; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:59:04 -0500 Received: (from c640429@localhost) by indy67.gclab.missouri.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA01606; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 10:58:55 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 10:58:55 -0600 (CST) From: Jawad Qureshi X-Sender: c640429@indy67.gclab.missouri.edu To: tariqas@europe.std.com Cc: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Salih i noor institue (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > I am looking for an address of Ustad Bediuzzaman. I looking into > studying his works and books he wrote. Assalamo alaiakum dear brother! Here are some of the addresses that I know of on the Internet: http://www.netzone.com/~sbirge/magazine/htm (for the Nur Publications homepage) http://www.engr.wisc.edu/~kose/index.html (for actual selections from the Risale-i Nur) I highly recommend that these two be looked at, and studied. The contents are very important to understanding this world and the next. Wa min Allah at Tawfeeq, Assalamo alaikum wa rahmat Allah, Jawad. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Feb 2 16:58:08 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA19190; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 12:43:12 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id LAA18851; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:58:10 -0500 Received: from tymix.Tymnet.COM by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id LAA18846; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:58:05 -0500 Received: by tymix.Tymnet.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA18706; Fri, 2 Feb 96 08:57:40 PST Received: from antares by tymix.Tymnet.COM (in.smtpd); 2 Feb 96 8:57:39 PST Received: from kirin.Tymnet.COM by antares.Tymnet.COM (8.6.5/UCB) id IAA10749; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 08:57:38 -0800 Received: by kirin.Tymnet.COM (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA00587; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 08:58:08 -0800 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 08:58:08 -0800 From: mmoore@antares.Tymnet.COM (Michael J. Moore) Message-Id: <9602021658.AA00587@kirin.Tymnet.COM> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Islam a Prerequisite to Sufism? X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: > On Thu, 1 Feb 1996, Paul Bergner wrote: > > > And also from Ibn Arabi . . . > > > > All the revealed religions are lights. Among these religions, the > > revealed religion of Muhammad is like the light of the sun among the > > lights of the stars. when the sun appears, the lights of the stars are > > hidden, and their lights are included in the light of the sun ------Cut------ > Assalamu alaikum. > > I'm not sure of the relative value of teachings. But I am pretty sure > that much of the value that we place on teachings is relative to our own > perspective. From the perspective of a planet circling one of those > other stars, our sun is another star. > > Yours, > > habib rose > This is an interesting point. Do we believe that we are the only intelligent life in the universe? As Carl Sagan points out the 'billions and billions' of stellar bodies, the likelyhood that we are the only intelligent life forms is pretty slim. -Michael- From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Feb 2 16:49:48 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA01040; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 13:07:56 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id LAA18264; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:53:35 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id LAA18251; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:53:31 -0500 From: NurLuna@aol.com Received: from emout04.mail.aol.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA07143; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:49:49 -0500 Received: by emout04.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA21594 for tariqas@world.std.com; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:49:48 -0500 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:49:48 -0500 Message-Id: <960202114947_134051402@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Cc: ABBAMOSES@aol.com Subject: Fwd: Peace & Greetings Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: As-salaam aleikum! I received this query concerning semazens in South Florida. If you know of any, please respond directly to this brother at the email address below. Thanks! Farrunnissa -------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: Peace & Greetings Date: 96-01-28 23:09:41 EST From: ABBAMOSES@aol.com To: NurLuna@aol.com I see from your profile that you have interest in Sufism and mystical dances as I do. My hope is that you may be able to give me help in locating those who might practice the Sema of the Mevlevis down here in South Florida. Salaam, Bob Margate, Fl. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Feb 2 20:49:15 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA12071; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 17:05:55 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id PAA19767; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 15:49:57 -0500 Received: from tymix.Tymnet.COM by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id PAA19752; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 15:49:51 -0500 Received: by tymix.Tymnet.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA20872; Fri, 2 Feb 96 12:48:47 PST Received: from antares by tymix.Tymnet.COM (in.smtpd); 2 Feb 96 12:48:47 PST Received: from kirin.Tymnet.COM by antares.Tymnet.COM (8.6.5/UCB) id MAA14162; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 12:48:45 -0800 Received: by kirin.Tymnet.COM (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA00673; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 12:49:15 -0800 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 12:49:15 -0800 From: mmoore@antares.Tymnet.COM (Michael J. Moore) Message-Id: <9602022049.AA00673@kirin.Tymnet.COM> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Hadith Regarding Zikr Meetings X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: On the authority of Abu Hurairah, (radhiy Allahu ^anhu) regarding the Prophet (Sall_Allahu ^alayhiy wa sallam), who said: "Verily Allah (glorified and exalted be He) has multitudes of roving angels who go about seeking zikr meetings. (1) And when they find a meeting in which there is zikr, they sit with them and fold their wings around one another, until they fill the space between themselves and the nearest heaven. When they [the people] depart, the angels ascend and rise up to the heaven." He(2) said: "Then Allah (mighty and sublime be He) asks them -- though he is most knowing about them: 'From whence have ye come?' And they say, 'We have come from some servant of Yours on earth; They were glorifying You(3) and exalting You(4), testifying that there is no god but You(5), praising You, and asking favors of You(6).' He says: 'And what do they ask of Me?' They say:'They ask of You Your Paradise.' He says: 'And have they seen My Paradise?' They say 'No, O Lord.' He says: 'And how would it be if they had seen My Paradise!' They say, 'And they ask your protection.' He says, 'And from what do they ask My protection?' They say, From Your Hell-fire, O Lord.' He says, 'And have they seen my Hell-fire?' They say, 'No.' He says: 'And how would it be if they had seen My Hell-fire!' They say: 'And they ask Your forgiveness.'" He(2) said: "Then He says: 'I have forgiven them and I have bestowed upon them that which they asked for, and I have granted them protection from that from which they sought protection.'" He(2) said: "They say, O Lord, among them is So-an-so, a much sinning servant, who just happened to be passing by and sat down with them.'" He(2) said: "And He says, 'Him, to, have I forgiven. Such people as these, whosoever sits with them shall not suffer.'" It was told by Muslim (also by al-Bukhari, at-Tirmidhi and an-Nasa'i.) 1. "Majaalis ez-Zikr" i.e. Meetings for the purpose of remembering Allah. (S.W.T.) 2. i.e. the Prophet (P.B.U.H) 3. i.e. by repeating: "Subhana_llah." 4. i.e. by repeating: "Allahu akbar." 5. i.e. by repeating: "La ilaha Illa_llah." 6. i.e. making dua prayers From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Feb 2 17:42:40 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28114; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 17:34:11 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id QAA23566; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 16:28:25 -0500 Received: from tide10.microsoft.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id QAA22805; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 16:24:05 -0500 Received: by tide10.microsoft.com; id MAA11979; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 12:18:05 -0800 Received: from unknown(157.54.17.74) by tide10.microsoft.com via smap (g3.0.3) id xma010503; Fri, 2 Feb 96 12:08:41 -0800 Received: from xnet2 (xnet2.microsoft.com [157.54.17.205]) by imail2.microsoft.com (8.7.3/8.7.1) with SMTP id LAA07708 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:53:06 -0800 (PST) X-Received: from red-42-msg by xnet2 with receive; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:49:39 -0800 X-Msmail-Message-Id: 8638F79A X-Msmail-Conversation-Id: 8638F79A From: Richard Rozsa To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Date: Fri, 2 Feb 96 11:48:50 TZ Subject: Re: Journey to the Lord of Power (out of print?) X-Msxmtid: red-42-msg960202194924MTP[01.52.00]000000b3-53951 Message-Id: red-42-msg960202194924MTP[01.52.00]000000b3-53951 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Brad, Aleikum as-Salaam I've loaned part of my copy so I can't check if this is the complete translation. The book isn't divided into chapters as many of the other English translations are but is a more or less continuous stream. As I recall though, this is a complete translation. The Beshara people can tell more about the book. The complete title is: Ismail Hakki Bursevi's translation of and commentary on Fusus al Hikam by Muhyiddin Ibn 'Arabi rendered into English by Bulent Rauf with the help of R. Brass and H. Tollemache. Translated from the Boulaq Edition of 1252 A.H. (1832 A.D.) Published by the Muhyiddin Ibn 'Arabi Society, Oxford / Istanbul and San Francisco in 1987 All the best, Richard. ---------- | From: "B. Taylor" | To: | Subject: Re: Journey to the Lord of Power (out of print?) | Date: Friday, February 02, 1996 1:28AM | | Richard, | | Assalaam Aleikum. | | Thank you for the very informative post. | | > For "The Bezels of Wisdom", Beshara | > Publications publishes two different translations of this work, the | > second being a 4 volume set translated by Bulent Rauf. | | Wow. Is this a complete translation of Fusus al-Hikam? I have the Titus | Burkhardt partial translation under the title _Wisdom of the Prophets_ | which I noticed is published by Beshara as well. | | | > Ibn al-`Arabi, Muhyi ad-Din. Journey to the Lord of Power: A Sufi | > Manual on Retreat. Translated by RabiaTerri Harris. New York: Inner | > Traditions International, 1981 | > This manual of instruction on khalwah, or spiritual retreat, by the | > great spiritual master, Ibn al-`Arabi (1165-1240), provides unique | > insight into this important Sufi practice. | | I found this today at a "new age" bookstore in Atlanta! | | > | > Ibn al-`Arabi, Muhyi ad-Din. The Bezels of Wisdom. Translated by R. W. | > J. Austin. Ramsey, NJ: Paulist Press,1980. | > Ibn al-`Arabi's (1165-1240) famous work of prophetology. Allegorically | > represents the Prophets as dimensions of | > man's inner being. Difficult but rewarding. | | This was the copy I was originally trying to find. | | > | > I've been casually searching for a copy of "Journey to the Lord of | > Power" so I'd be grateful for a note should you find a source. | | I'll ask them where they got it from and relate the info. | | Thanks again for your help. | | -brad | From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Feb 2 19:27:38 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA03950; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 21:10:55 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id UAA12277; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 20:22:16 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id UAA12272; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 20:22:14 -0500 From: Jinavamsa@aol.com Received: from relay6.UU.NET by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA14254; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 20:19:02 -0500 Received: from emout07.mail.aol.com by relay6.UU.NET with SMTP id QQabfh10146; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 14:29:07 -0500 (EST) Received: by emout07.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA15654 for tariqas@world.std.com; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 14:27:38 -0500 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 14:27:38 -0500 Message-Id: <960202142736_212516231@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Pakistani Yusuf Ali Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: I have just received a copy of the Yusuf Ali tr. of the Quran (Engl., Ar., Ar. in transliteration; none of YA's commentary) that was printed in Pakistan. Question: is there such an edition which includes all of YA's cmy? It is marked, first edition, 1986. Re copyright: is says, (c) Sh. Muhammad Ashraf, Publishers, Lahore, 1986: All rights of publication of this book are also reserved in India, U.K., U.S.A., and South Africa. The cover of this hardback has cracked apart, perhaps from much use! in case anyone is interested, exact title is: _Roman Transliteration of The Holy Quran with Full Arabic Text, English Translation by A. Yusuf Ali_. and the publ. w/address is: Sh. Muhammad Ashraf, Publishers & Booksellers, 7 - Aibak Road (New Anarkali) Lahore 7 Pakistan From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sat Feb 3 14:17:48 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA20796; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 09:50:50 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id JAA03431; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 09:17:40 -0500 Received: from epix.net by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id JAA03426; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 09:17:38 -0500 Received: from .epix.net (lwbyppp159.epix.net [199.224.69.159]) by epix.net (8.7.1/8.7) with SMTP id JAA17149; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 09:16:04 -0500 (EST) From: sarmad@epix.net (James Brody) To: arsalaan fay , tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Reference Date: Sat, 03 Feb 1996 14:17:48 GMT Message-Id: <31136db4.39019556@mailhost.epix.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: "Say Allah and Allah you will Become" I beleive this phrase came Sufi Sam, Murshid Samuel Lewis, Sufi Ahmed Murad Chisti. Abraham Sarmad From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Feb 2 18:49:29 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA21249; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 09:52:31 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id JAA03459; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 09:18:38 -0500 Received: from relay5.UU.NET by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id JAA03450; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 09:18:34 -0500 Received: from mail.sdsu.edu by relay5.UU.NET with ESMTP id QQabff00416; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 13:50:39 -0500 (EST) Received: (from hall@localhost) by mail.sdsu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA08629; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 10:49:29 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 10:49:29 -0800 (PST) From: Linda elaine Hall X-Sender: hall@pop To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Cc: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: RE: Salat with shoes on? In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: This is to George: I have been advised by my doctor to even wear my shoes indoors, for I have severly high aches in my feet which have collapsed, making me painfully flat footed and with pronated ankles. I have to wear specially made shoes with inserts to support my feet so I can walk without pain...even wearing slippers around the house gives me pain when I walk, and unless I have the support around me whole right foot at all times I'm in pain. And I DO keep my feet clean! It just bothers me having to wear shoes in my house, and it is very painful when a make salat, as I take them off! There must be somebody who can advise me in this matter. Jamilla From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sat Feb 3 20:28:43 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28379; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 16:00:43 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id PAA08170; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 15:28:51 -0500 Received: from mail06.mail.aol.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id PAA08165; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 15:28:48 -0500 From: Jinavamsa@aol.com Received: by mail06.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA06523 for tariqas@europe.std.com; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 15:28:43 -0500 Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 15:28:43 -0500 Message-Id: <960203152841_413687210@mail06.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Journey to the Lord of Power (coming back into print) Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: hello book searchers, the Ibn `Arabi book, in its translation as Journey to the Lord of Power, is coming back into print sometime in the next month or so, by the publisher of the last edition, Inner Traditions of Rochester Vermont. Their direct tel. number is 1-800-246-8648 [=1-800- go-to-it]. Or, I read, they have an email address: orders@gotoit.com. I have their catalogue with a number of foreign agents' addresses, as well, if anyone needs that. good reading! Jinavamsa In a message dated 96-02-02 01:31:37 EST, you write: > >> I've been casually searching for a copy of "Journey to the Lord of >> Power" so I'd be grateful for a note should you find a source. > >I'll ask them where they got it from and relate the info. > >Thanks again for your help. > >-brad > > From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sat Feb 3 20:13:46 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA08432; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 16:31:42 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id QAA11417; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 16:09:46 -0500 Received: from wolfe.net by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id QAA11390; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 16:09:41 -0500 Received: from [204.157.98.98] (sea-ts1-p44.wolfenet.com [204.157.98.98]) by wolfe.net (8.7.3/8.7) with SMTP id NAA23775 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 13:09:51 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: gws@gonzo.wolfe.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 13:13:46 -0700 To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: gws@wolfe.net (George Steffen) Subject: Re: Books on Sufism Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Assalam Aleikum Muhammed Razi Abdul asked for books on Sufism. I want to suggest three: Sheikh Muzaffer Ozak. LOVE IS THE WINE. Edited by Sh. Ragip Frager. Sh. Muzaffer Ozak. THE UNVEILING OF LOVE. Sh. Fadhlallah Haeri. THE ELEMENTS OF SUFISM. Martin Lings. WHAT IS SUFISM? PEACE AND BLESSINGS. Habib N. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Feb 2 16:49:48 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA14232; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 16:50:39 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id LAA18264; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:53:35 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id LAA18251; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:53:31 -0500 From: NurLuna@aol.com Received: from emout04.mail.aol.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA07143; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:49:49 -0500 Received: by emout04.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA21594 for tariqas@world.std.com; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:49:48 -0500 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:49:48 -0500 Message-Id: <960202114947_134051402@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Cc: ABBAMOSES@aol.com Subject: Fwd: Peace & Greetings Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: As-salaam aleikum! I received this query concerning semazens in South Florida. If you know of any, please respond directly to this brother at the email address below. Thanks! Farrunnissa -------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: Peace & Greetings Date: 96-01-28 23:09:41 EST From: ABBAMOSES@aol.com To: NurLuna@aol.com I see from your profile that you have interest in Sufism and mystical dances as I do. My hope is that you may be able to give me help in locating those who might practice the Sema of the Mevlevis down here in South Florida. Salaam, Bob Margate, Fl. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Feb 1 16:22:37 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA16837; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 16:57:11 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id LAA11308; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 11:22:46 -0500 Received: from tymix.Tymnet.COM by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id LAA11293; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 11:22:39 -0500 Received: by tymix.Tymnet.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA24348; Thu, 1 Feb 96 08:22:08 PST Received: from antares by tymix.Tymnet.COM (in.smtpd); 1 Feb 96 8:22:08 PST Received: from kirin.Tymnet.COM by antares.Tymnet.COM (8.6.5/UCB) id IAA22309; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 08:22:06 -0800 Received: by kirin.Tymnet.COM (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA13863; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 08:22:37 -0800 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 08:22:37 -0800 From: mmoore@antares.Tymnet.COM (Michael J. Moore) Message-Id: <9602011622.AA13863@kirin.Tymnet.COM> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Whirling & VOA X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: >" ...never, of course, > questioning the trance of wholly subscribing to the 'consensus reality.' Ameen ! -Michael- From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Feb 1 18:42:24 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28960; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 17:35:50 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id LAA10184; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 11:11:16 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id LAA10179; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 11:11:12 -0500 From: omegapub@taconic.net Received: from host.taconic.net by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA13038; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 11:02:21 -0500 Received: from ch_anx_p13.taconic.net by host.taconic.net; (5.65/1.1.8.2/13Jul95-1105AM) id AA24336; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 11:04:03 -0500 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 96 10:42:24 PST Subject: journey to lord of power, bezels To: tariqas@world.std.com X-Mailer: Chameleon V0.05, TCP/IP for Windows, NetManage Inc. Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: For those interested: Journey to the Lord of Power is not out of print. It is currently being reprinted by the publisher (Inner Traditions), and is expected back in circulation by early next month. I am checking on the status of the Paulist Press edition of Bezels of Wisdom, which will most certainly be reprinted but I don't yet have a date. There are frequently times when some element of the book industry claims a title is out of print, when the title is actually available. Once started, like a rumor, this misinformation can be very difficult to stop! When available, both titles can be obtained through Omega Press at this e-mail address, or phone 800-443-7107 (outside USA, call 518-794-8181), or fax 518-794-8187, or hand-delivered mail to 256 Darrow Rd, New Lebanon NY 12125. MC and Visa accepted. Shipping within the USA is $3. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * With all best wishes, Abi'l-Khayr Date: 02/01/96 Time: 10:42:24 "The alchemy is in the stilling of the heart, when mercury turns to silver." --Inayat Khan * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sat Feb 3 23:22:39 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA02880; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 17:47:44 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id RAA17067; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 17:19:21 -0500 Received: from cecasun.utc.edu by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id RAA17062; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 17:19:18 -0500 Received: from 192.239.44.63 by cecasun.utc.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id RAA19255; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 17:19:15 -0500 Message-Id: <3113EE3F.7CBA@utcvm.utc.edu> Date: Sat, 03 Feb 1996 17:22:39 -0600 From: Jim Henry Organization: Univ of Tenn at Chattanooga X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b6a (Macintosh; I; 68K) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Cc: bettkin@carleton.edu Subject: 36 wise men-reference Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: I got this infromation from my good friend Brian Ettkin -----quote --------------------------------------------------- LAMED VAVNIK (Yiddish for 'one of the thiry-six') There is a belief in Jewish folklore that in each generation there are thirty-six hidden righteous men on whose merits the world depends. This belief is based on a Talmudic statement that there are not less that thirty-six people who stand in the presence of the shekhinah every day. One of these humble and unnoticed lamed vavniks is destined to be the Messiah, if the genereation is worthy. They wander in exile with their fellow Jews, working as artisans, oand only assert themselves when there is danger to the community. After they have acted to save Jews from danger, they revert back to their anonymity. They are forbidden to reveal themselves to others, for if they did so, they would die. Israel Baal Shem Tov was said to know who the lamed vavniks of his generation were and to have given them economic support. Elijah the Vilna Gaon knew of a lamed vavnik called Leib who worked in a distillery. Before he out on his travels to the Land of Israel, Elijah wrote to this Leib and asked him to accompany him. When the letter arrived at the distillery, the owner and workmen were surprised to see that the famous sage of Vilna was writing to one of their number, but they were even more surprised to see Leib read the letter and cast it into a furnace. To the man who brought the letter, who needed an answer to take back to his master, all Leib would reply was: 'It's not necessary." It seems that Leib knew the vilna gaon would never actually reach the Holy Land. -- From the Dictionary of Jewish Lore and Legend Alan Unterman published by Thames and Hudson I hope that that answers your question. The Dictionary is a wonderful and concise resource for beginning any exploration of Judaism in regards to questions of myth like these. If any of the terms in this defintion are unclear (e.g., shekhinah, tzaddik, Baal Shem Tov), let me know, and I will be happy to provide Unterman's definition. ---- end of quote -------------------------- JIM From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sat Feb 3 21:43:13 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA11356; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 18:15:30 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id RAA18982; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 17:39:15 -0500 Received: from wolfe.net by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id RAA18977; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 17:39:12 -0500 Received: from [204.157.98.98] (sea-ts1-p44.wolfenet.com [204.157.98.98]) by wolfe.net (8.7.3/8.7) with SMTP id OAA29169 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 14:39:19 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: gws@gonzo.wolfe.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 14:43:13 -0700 To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: gws@wolfe.net (George Steffen) Subject: On Mysticism and "Sufis" Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Assalam Aleikum, Below is a message from Brett McCoy (edtied) which reiterates a confusion widely practiced in this group. He states that Sufis were a group which existed before the Prophet Mohammed, that some story places them going from prophet to prophet looking for something. This is a confusion between mysticism in general and its practicioners since time immemorial and a specific subset of practicioners - Sufis or dervishes. No one would deny that mankind has been searching for paths to the One which involve direct experience and the heart (which in Islam is the seat of the rational which can accept the Truth) and soul or as close as human beings can come to it. This general search has taken many forms. However, I offer the following extended quote from the RISALAH of Abul-Qasim al-Qushayri written in 1046 A.D.(this is from an unpublished manuscript and not for reuse): Know, may Allah have mercy upon you, that the best of the Muslims after the Messenger of Allah (saws) were not called, in their own time, by any special name, but were known only as those who kept company with the Messenger. Since there is no excellence greater than that, they came to be spoken of as the Companions. In the second generation, those who kept company with the Companions were called the Followers, and saw in this the noblest of titles; the ones who came after them were called the Following of the Followers. After this, people began to differ and levels of development became distinquishable, so the elite, who had been given an intense concern for matters of religion, were called the Ascetics and the Devotees. Then, destructive innovation appeared and parties began to contend with each other, each group claiming that the Ascetics were within its own ranks. So, the elite of the people of the Sunnah, who held each of their breaths accountable to Allah Most High and protected their hearts from the disasters of negligence, cam to be specified by the word TASAWWUF, Sufism. This name became prevalent for these great ones before the close of the second century Hijrah. A notes: The phrase "destructive innovation appeared and parties began to contend" refers to the rise of the Ummiyads and the renewed emphasis on materialism and political power. This, in turn, led to political/religious parties which attempted to claim the Ascetics to ascribe a religious seal of approval to their rangling after worldly power and religious dominance. This rangling confused the people, reenforced corruption, and even muddied the spiritual reality which was the faith and practice of the Companions (those closest to the Prophet and by whom was HIS PRACTICE known). All of succeeding generations of saints had followed the teachings of the Companions and the Followers as best they could. This occurred through chains of teaching, teacher to student. Yet, in this time (approx. the third century after the Prophet), politics, corruption, and religious confusion were weakening these chains. Indeed, al-Qusharyri says, "The teachers through who guidance came have passed, and few are the students whose attitudes and behavior follow thier example. More heedfulness has rolled up its carpet and left, while greed has reinforced its shackles and grown strong." Thus, this period was the beginning of the movement to collect the Hadith. It was also the beginning of the appearance of manuals of tasawwuf of which the RISALAH of al-Qusaryri was one of the first. Likewise, it is the period in which the term "sufism" began to be used to refer to those who "held each of their breaths accountable to Allah Most High and protected their hearts from the disasters of negligence." Amin, Habib Najar >What I had read also is that they went by a different name prior to the >time of the Prophet, and were known for the woolen white robes rather >well. The story goes, as I read it (and please, correct if I am >inaccurate 00 I'm a relative newcomer to this world!), that they each >went to many prophets in turn, in a span of many years, and even came to >see Jesus of Nazareth to hear what he had to say, but they were not >satisfied. When they became before The Prophet, he only looked at them >long without speaking, and then the Sufis were satisfied. > >> |purports to offer >> |direct knowledge of God and can be traced back to Islam's seventh-century >> |origins. >> >> I have heard some scholars trace it back further than this (such that it >> it preceded the religion of Islam or as a 'proto-Sufism' given form by >> many mystical influences). Comments? > > Brett W. McCoy | There is only one difference > bmccoy@capaccess.org | between myself and a madman, > Disciple of the Eastern Mysteries of | and that is I am not mad > both Love and War | -- Salvador Dali From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sun Feb 4 02:13:57 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA22925; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 21:41:54 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id VAA06776; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 21:13:12 -0500 Received: from cwis.unomaha.edu by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id VAA06771; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 21:13:09 -0500 Received: by cwis.unomaha.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA28112; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 20:13:58 -0600 Message-Id: <9602040213.AA28112@cwis.unomaha.edu> Subject: Re: Salat with shoes on To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 20:13:57 -0600 (CST) From: Richard Bennett In-Reply-To: from "Linda elaine Hall" at Feb 2, 96 10:49:29 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1053 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: 786 asalaam dear sister: i don't know if you are aware of it, but it is permissable to perform salaat with your shoes on...provided that your shoes are clean and that you have performed wudu'correctly...besides Allah means you to perform your salaat and not give you hardship. Allah (swt) knows your intention best. wasalaam ghani> > > This is to George: > > I have been advised by my doctor to even wear my shoes indoors, for I > have severly high aches in my feet which have collapsed, making me > painfully flat footed and with pronated ankles. I have to wear specially > made shoes with inserts to support my feet so I can walk without > pain...even wearing slippers around the house gives me pain when I walk, > and unless I have the support around me whole right foot at all times I'm > in pain. > > And I DO keep my feet clean! It just bothers me having to wear shoes in > my house, and it is very painful when a make salat, as I take them off! > There must be somebody who can advise me in this matter. > > Jamilla > From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sun Feb 4 02:16:19 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA23519; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 21:44:09 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id VAA06867; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 21:15:30 -0500 Received: from cwis.unomaha.edu by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id VAA06854; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 21:15:26 -0500 Received: by cwis.unomaha.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA28217; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 20:16:19 -0600 Message-Id: <9602040216.AA28217@cwis.unomaha.edu> Subject: Re: Pakistani Yusuf Ali To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 20:16:19 -0600 (CST) From: Richard Bennett Cc: rbennett@cwis.unomaha.edu (Richard Bennett) In-Reply-To: <960202142736_212516231@emout07.mail.aol.com> from "Jinavamsa@aol.com" at Feb 2, 96 02:27:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 967 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: 786 asalaam, dear brothers: > > > I have just received a copy of the Yusuf Ali tr. of the Quran (Engl., Ar., > Ar. in transliteration; none of YA's commentary) that was printed in > Pakistan. > Question: is there such an edition which includes all of YA's cmy? > > It is marked, first edition, 1986. Re copyright: is says, > (c) Sh. Muhammad Ashraf, Publishers, Lahore, 1986: All rights of publication > of this book are also reserved in India, U.K., U.S.A., and South Africa. > > The cover of this hardback has cracked apart, perhaps from much use! > in case anyone is interested, exact title is: _Roman Transliteration of The > Holy Quran with Full Arabic Text, English Translation by A. Yusuf Ali_. > and the publ. w/address is: > Sh. Muhammad Ashraf, Publishers & Booksellers, > 7 - Aibak Road (New Anarkali) > Lahore 7 > Pakistan dear brothers: i have a copy of this book if you are interested in obtaining a photocopy.. wasalaam, ghani> From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sun Feb 4 03:43:23 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA20616; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 23:11:47 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id WAA13853; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 22:47:01 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id WAA13802; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 22:46:54 -0500 Received: from cwis.unomaha.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA11973; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 22:42:38 -0500 Received: by cwis.unomaha.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA01123; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 21:43:24 -0600 Message-Id: <9602040343.AA01123@cwis.unomaha.edu> Subject: ENORMITIES (1) To: tariqas@world.std.com, msa-ec@world.std.com, soc-religion-islam@telerama.lm.com, msa-misc@htm3.ee.queensu.ca, msa@htm3.ee.queensu.ca, ameezanj@vnet.ibm.com, 4achmad@server.indo.net.id Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 21:43:23 -0600 (CST) From: Richard Bennett Cc: rbennett@cwis.unomaha.edu (Richard Bennett) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 4689 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: 786 asalaam The following will be, inshAllah, a series of excerpts from the book entitled: "Book of Enormities" (Kitab al-kaba'ir) by Imam Dhahabi. He defines an enormity as any sin entailing either a threat of punishment in the hereafter explicitly mentioned in the Quran or hadith, a prescribed legal penalty (hadd), or being accursed by Allah or His Messenger (s). "If you avoid enormities of what you have been forbidden, We shall acquit you of your wrongdoings and admit you to generous place to enter" (Quran 4:31) In this text, Allah (swt) promises whoever avoids the enormities to admit him to paradise. The Prophet (s) said: "The five prescribed prayers, and from one Friday prayer to another entail forgiveness for what is between them as long as you do not commit the enormities." So we are obliged to learn what they are. May Allah (swt) by his mercy enable us to avoid them. ============================================================================ ASCRIBING ASSOCIATES TO ALLAH (SWT) (SHIRK) Ascribing associates to Allah (swt) means to hold that Allah has an equal, whereas he has created you, and to worship another with Him, whether it be a stone, human, sun, moon, prophet, sheikh, jinn, angel, or other. Allah (swt) says: 1. "Allah does not forgive that any should be associated with Him, but forgives what is other than that to whomever He wills" (Quran 4:48) 2. "Surely, whoever ascribes associates to Allah, Allah has forbidden him paradise, and his refuge is hell" (Quran 5:72) 3. "Of a certainty, worshipping others with Allah is a tremendous injustice" (Quran 31:13) The Quranic verses concerning this are very numerous, it being absolutely certain that whoever ascribes associates to Allah and dies in such a state is one of hell's inhabitants, just as whoever believes in Allah and dies as a believer is one of the inhabitants of paradise, even if he should be punished first. ++++++ KILLING A HUMAN BEING Allah (swt) says: 1. "Whoever intentionally kills a believer, his recompense shall be hell, abiding therein forever, and Allah shall be wroth with him, damn him, and ready him for a painful torment (Quran 4:93) 2. 'Whoever takes a life other that to retaliate for a killing or for corruption in the land is as if he slain all mankind (Quran 5:32) The Prophet (s) said: When two muslims meet with drawn swords, both the slayer and the slain go to hell." Someone said, "O' Messenger of Allah, that is for the slayer. But why the slain?" And he replied, "Because he meant to kill the other." +++++ SORCERY Sorcery is an enormity because the sorcerer must necessarily disbelieve, and the accursed Devil has no other motive for teaching a person witchcraft than that he might thereby ascribe associates to Allah (shirk). Allah (swt) says: 1. "A sorcerer will never prosper wherever he goes" (Quran 20:69) 2."...But the devils disbelieved, teaching people sorcery" (Quran 2:102 And Allah (swt) says, concerning Harut and Marut: 3. "The two do not teach anyone before telling them, 'We are only a temptation, so be not unbelievers,' but they learn from these two that which they use to separate a man from his wife" (Quran 2:102) ++++++ NOT PERFORMING THE PRAYER Allah (swt) says: 1. But a generation followed them who dissipated the prayer and pursued (their) lusts, and they shall find GHAYY (a valley in hell), save he who repents..." (Quran 19:59-60) 2. "Woe to those who pray, unmindful of their prayers" (Quran 107:4-5) 3. "What has brought you to hell?" and they shall say, 'We were not of those who prayed'" (Quran 74:42-43) The Prophet (s) said: "The agreement that is between us and them is the prayer: whoever leaves it has disbleieved." +++++ NOT PAYING ZAKAT Allah (swt) says: 1. "Woe unto polytheists, who do not pay zakat and are disbelievers in the hereafter" (Quran 41:6-7) 2. "Those who hoard gold and silver, spending it not in the way of Allah, give them glad tidings of a painful torment, the day they are roasted upon it in the fire of hell" (Quran 9:34-35) ++++++ SHOWING DISRESPECT TO ONE'S PARENTS Allah (swt) says: 1. "Your Lord decrees that you shall worship none but Him and treat your parents well, and if one or both of them reach old age with you, say not 'Uff!' to them nor upbraid them, but speak noble words and lower the wing of humility to them out of mercy" (Quran 17:23-24) 2. "And We enjoin man to be good to his parents" (Quran 29:8) The Prophet (s) said: "Shall I not tell you of the worst of the enormities?..." and one of those he mentioned was undutiful behavior to one's parents. wasalaam, abdul ghani From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sun Feb 4 07:06:26 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA25064; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 03:20:45 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id DAA05602; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 03:02:24 -0500 Received: from wolfe.net by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id DAA05597; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 03:02:21 -0500 Received: from [204.157.98.58] (sea-ts1-p04.wolfenet.com [204.157.98.58]) by wolfe.net (8.7.3/8.7) with SMTP id AAA00287 for ; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 00:02:30 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: gws@gonzo.wolfe.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 00:06:26 -0700 To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: gws@wolfe.net (George Steffen) Subject: Re: Salat with shoes on Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Assalam Aleikum I Missed your post, Jamilla. I know of no permission which in general allows salat with outdoor shoes on although it is conceivable that if you clean them, they may be permissible. However, your case is different issue altogether. Whether it's permissible in general or not, nothing should stand in the way of accomplishing your salat. Go to it - you could probably make salat wearing pontoons if necessary. Bless you many times over. Peace and Blessings, Habib N. 786 > >asalaam > >dear sister: > >i don't know if you are aware of it, but it is permissable to perform >salaat with your shoes on...provided that your shoes are clean and that >you have performed wudu'correctly...besides Allah means you to perform your >salaat and not give you hardship. Allah (swt) knows your intention best. > >wasalaam > >ghani> >> >> This is to George: >> >> I have been advised by my doctor to even wear my shoes indoors, for I >> have severly high aches in my feet which have collapsed, making me >> painfully flat footed and with pronated ankles. I have to wear specially >> made shoes with inserts to support my feet so I can walk without >> pain...even wearing slippers around the house gives me pain when I walk, >> and unless I have the support around me whole right foot at all times I'm >> in pain. >> >> And I DO keep my feet clean! It just bothers me having to wear shoes in >> my house, and it is very painful when a make salat, as I take them off! >> There must be somebody who can advise me in this matter. >> >> Jamilla >> From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sun Feb 4 07:29:12 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28072; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 03:48:01 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id DAA06784; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 03:25:11 -0500 Received: from wolfe.net by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id DAA06763; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 03:25:07 -0500 Received: from [204.157.98.58] (sea-ts1-p04.wolfenet.com [204.157.98.58]) by wolfe.net (8.7.3/8.7) with SMTP id AAA01155 for ; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 00:25:17 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: gws@gonzo.wolfe.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 00:29:12 -0700 To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: gws@wolfe.net (George Steffen) Subject: Re: Islam a Prerequisite to Sufism? Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: >On Thu, 1 Feb 1996, Paul Bergner wrote: > >> And also from Ibn Arabi . . . >> >> All the revealed religions are lights. Among these religions, the >> revealed religion of Muhammad is like the light of the sun among the >> lights of the stars. when the sun appears, the lights of the stars are >> hidden, and their lights are included in the light of the sun. Their >> being is hidden like the abrogation of the other revealed religions and >> takes place through Muhammad's revleade religion. Nevertheless, they do >> in fact exist, just as the existence of the light of the stars is >> actualized. This explains why we have been required in our all-inclusive >> religion to have faith in the truth of all messengers and all the >> revealed religions. They are not rendered null by abrogation -- that is >> the opinion of the ignorant. > >Assalamu alaikum. > >I'm not sure of the relative value of teachings. But I am pretty sure >that much of the value that we place on teachings is relative to our own >perspective. From the perspective of a planet circling one of those >other stars, our sun is another star. > >Yours, > >habib rose Assalam Aleikum And, indeed, there seems to be some confusion whether followers of "sufism" on the net location "tariqas" are or should be followers of the sun (or the moon since even Muhammed's light is indirect for us) of Muhammed. Strange aberation is it not? Salaams, Habib N. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sun Feb 4 17:25:15 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA21816; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 10:07:03 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id JAA21847; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 09:44:01 -0500 Received: from host.taconic.net by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id JAA21842; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 09:43:58 -0500 From: omegapub@taconic.net Received: from ch_anx_p1.taconic.net by host.taconic.net; (5.65/1.1.8.2/13Jul95-1105AM) id AA28497; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 09:45:38 -0500 Date: Sun, 4 Feb 96 09:25:15 PST Subject: RE: On Mysticism and "Sufis" To: tariqas@facteur.std.com X-Mailer: Chameleon V0.05, TCP/IP for Windows, NetManage Inc. Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: >From George Steffen's recent post:..."the term 'sufism' began to be used to refer to those who 'held each of their breaths accountable to Allah Most High and protected their hearts from the disasters of negligence.'" This is offered as indication that "Sufis" and "Sufism" do not go back before the time of Muhammad, whereas to me it suggests just the opposite. Let me try to explain, though I hope not to cause any confusion or to start a fight over words. In my understanding, such as it is, mystics throughout time have sought Allah, and those who have attained to levels of true realization through whatever practice or whatever tradition could fairly be described as "holding each of their breaths accountable to Allah most high and protecting their hearts from the disasters of negligence." This is the reality to which the words "sufi" and "sufism" point, and the word can perhaps be traced back only to the 900's or so, but the reality can be traced back to Abraham and even beyond. I am myself much more interested in connecting to the reality than I am to being considered correct by scholars with reference to when the word "sufism" first appears in human history. But I can also appreciate that in certain contexts, that more specific usage can be useful. So we just need to be clear when we are speaking whether we are using the word as a designation for mysticism and the relationship to Allah which this word implies, or whether we mean by it a more limited, historically designated group of mystics. Are we wanting to be historians or mystics? * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Abi'l-Khayr E-mail: omegapub@taconic.net Date: 02/04/96 Time: 09:25:15 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sun Feb 4 17:30:13 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA14389; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 12:52:33 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id MAA02427; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 12:30:17 -0500 Received: from mail06.mail.aol.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id MAA02418; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 12:30:14 -0500 From: Hafizullah@aol.com Received: by mail06.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA06615 for tariqas@europe.std.com; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 12:30:13 -0500 Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 12:30:13 -0500 Message-Id: <960204123012_414219850@mail06.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: reference Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: It has been attributed to Shams-i Tabriz (q.A.s.). From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sun Feb 4 23:53:18 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA17751; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 19:24:10 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id SAA07929; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 18:51:20 -0500 Received: from ns1.net-gate.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id SAA07910; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 18:51:16 -0500 From: ennea@net-gate.com Received: from modem15.net-gate.com (modem15.net-gate.com [205.136.25.223]) by ns1.net-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA12358 for ; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 18:53:18 -0500 Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 18:53:18 -0500 Message-Id: <199602042353.SAA12358@ns1.net-gate.com> X-Sender: ennea@mail.net-gate.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: On Mysticism and "Sufis" Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: > Below is a message from Brett McCoy (edtied) which reiterates a >confusion widely practiced in this group. He states that Sufis were a >group which existed before the Prophet Mohammed, that some story places >them going from prophet to prophet looking for something. > This is a confusion between mysticism in general and its >practicioners since time immemorial and a specific subset of practicioners >- Sufis or dervishes. No one would deny that mankind has been searching >for paths to the One which involve direct experience and the heart (which >in Islam is the seat of the rational which can accept the Truth) and soul >or as close as human beings can come to it. This general search has taken >many forms. However, I offer the following extended quote from the RISALAH >of Abul-Qasim al-Qushayri written in 1046 A.D.(this is from an unpublished >manuscript and not for reuse): Have you verified that Sufis did not exist before Islam? Are you a Sufi? Though the fact would seem to have little value to us, most statements regarding this subject that I have read written by Sufis, and that I have heard from people that I feel are Sufis relate that Sufism existed before Islam. Also as they state, in another sense they have existed before Adam. What they were called would seem of little importance. They may have had another name at the time, but they would have still been the people that taught what we now call Sufism. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Mon Feb 5 02:01:16 1996 Received: from relay2.UU.NET by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA05066; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 21:31:51 -0500 Received: from europe.std.com by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP id QQabnu14073; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 21:31:06 -0500 (EST) Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id VAA19915; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 21:01:21 -0500 Received: from dns1.uga.edu by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id VAA19904; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 21:01:18 -0500 Received: from cacimbo.ggy.uga.edu (cacimbo.ggy.uga.edu [128.192.40.157]) by dns1.uga.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) with ESMTP id VAA21546 for ; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 21:01:17 -0500 Received: (from btaylor@localhost) by cacimbo.ggy.uga.edu (8.6.10/8.6.10) id VAA00749; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 21:01:16 -0500 Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 21:01:16 -0500 (EST) From: "B. Taylor" X-Sender: btaylor@cacimbo To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: On Mysticism and "Sufis" In-Reply-To: <199602042353.SAA12358@ns1.net-gate.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: On Sun, 4 Feb 1996 ennea@net-gate.com wrote: > in another sense they [Sufis] have existed before Adam. or the One. Could this be a reference to the Prophet (PBUH) saying, "I was a prophet when Adam was between spirit and body." and Rumi writes: "I look at my inmost consciousness and see a universe hidden, Adam and Eve not yet arisen from the world." -brad From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Mon Feb 5 02:59:20 1996 Received: from relay1.UU.NET by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA22423; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 22:09:07 -0500 Received: from europe.std.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP id QQabnw23218; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 22:08:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id WAA26367; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 22:06:22 -0500 Received: from relay3.UU.NET by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA19586; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 22:00:57 -0500 Received: from europe.std.com by relay3.UU.NET with SMTP id QQabnw04773; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 22:00:37 -0500 (EST) Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id VAA25512; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 21:59:20 -0500 Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 21:59:20 -0500 Message-Id: <199602050259.VAA25512@europe.std.com> To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Non-member submission from [MJVBEG@jazz.ucc.uno.edu] Status: RO X-Status: >From habib@world.std.com Sun Feb 4 21:59:18 1996 Return-Path: Received: from jazz.ucc.uno.edu by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id VAA25507; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 21:59:17 -0500 From: MJVBEG@jazz.ucc.uno.edu Received: from jazz.ucc.uno.edu by jazz.ucc.uno.edu (PMDF V5.0-4 #11893) id <01I0TURIQT8I90WWLU@jazz.ucc.uno.edu> for tariqas@facteur.std.com; Sun, 04 Feb 1996 20:59:19 -0600 (CST) Date: Sun, 04 Feb 1996 20:59:19 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: On Mysticism and "Sufis" To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Message-id: <01I0TURIQT8K90WWLU@jazz.ucc.uno.edu> X-VMS-To: IN%"tariqas@facteur.std.com" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ Inna Al-Diina a9inda Allahi Al-Islam @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ Indeed, religion from Allah's point of view is Islam. @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ There is nothing more simple to understand: there is Islam and Umm-ul-Islam. There is Al-Kitab and Umm-ul-Kitab. Hence, Sufism and Umm-ul-Islam and Umm-ul-Kitab are co-pre-existent. All the rest is commentary. =MJVB= From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Mon Feb 5 03:17:47 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA08226; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 22:45:23 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id WAA27795; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 22:17:48 -0500 Received: from dns1.uga.edu by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id WAA27790; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 22:17:45 -0500 Received: from cacimbo.ggy.uga.edu (cacimbo.ggy.uga.edu [128.192.40.157]) by dns1.uga.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) with ESMTP id WAA25726 for ; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 22:17:48 -0500 Received: (from btaylor@localhost) by cacimbo.ggy.uga.edu (8.6.10/8.6.10) id WAA05444; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 22:17:47 -0500 Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 22:17:47 -0500 (EST) From: "B. Taylor" X-Sender: btaylor@cacimbo To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: mystics as historians (fwd) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: On Sun, 4 Feb 1996 omegapub@taconic.net wrote: Assalaam Aleikum. > I am myself much more interested in connecting to the reality than I am to > being considered correct by scholars with reference to when the word > "sufism" first appears in human history. Nicely put. > Are we wanting to be historians or mystics? Both? I've found that in being on a mystical path, I become a historian of sorts by searching the past for teachings and teachers. I feel a "trans-historical" present with teachers of the past through their teachings. Even though they may have lived 700 or so years ago, their ideas, emotions, and expressions are more "present" in my "reality" (false as it is) than reading today's newspaper. I feel that mysticism in many respects "refutes time" (as Borges suggests) and we, insh'Allah, can be transformed from "historians" to "contemporaries" of all of history. These intellectual pursuits can, insh'Allah, mix with the Love of the Heart allowing for an opening of Beauty. Historical and philosophical "facts" are true in as much as they are springboards to and signs of the Real (haqq) and not as tools of egoism and power by saying "I'm Right and you're Wrong" (intellectual shirk). I've found this perspective to be very liberating in the sense that it allows me to explore all of the social and philosophical sciences without the pressure (rationally imposed) of considering whether philospher (or historian) A is "right" and philospher B is "wrong." Both descriptions will always apply. How can I judge whether an Act of Creation is objectively true (in a western philosophical sense)? To do so would be to deny an Aspect of the Real. For me tawhid demands that I answer "yes and no" or as Chittick writes, "He/not He." Rumi writes: How many words the world contains! But all have one meaning. When you smash the jugs, the water is one. I become a historian because who knows where I'll find Truth, since "Allah is the best of Deceivers." -brad From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Mon Feb 5 04:22:48 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA23352; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 23:26:26 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id XAA05659; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 23:25:30 -0500 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA22509; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 23:23:01 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id XAA05240; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 23:22:48 -0500 Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 23:22:48 -0500 Message-Id: <199602050422.XAA05240@europe.std.com> To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Admin request Status: RO X-Status: >From habib@world.std.com Sun Feb 4 23:22:46 1996 Return-Path: Received: from mail04.mail.aol.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id XAA05235; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 23:22:46 -0500 From: MFKimball@aol.com Received: by mail04.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id XAA29090 for tariqas@europe.std.com; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 23:22:58 -0500 Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 23:22:58 -0500 Message-ID: <960204232256_414668067@mail04.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@europe.std.com Subject: subscribe me Please sign me up to tariqas. I seem to have gotten dropped when I changed my address...no mail for the past few days Thanks Assalamu Alaikum Farah (Michelle) Kimball From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Mon Feb 5 05:12:10 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29699; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 00:40:22 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id AAA11001; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 00:12:21 -0500 Received: from relay5.UU.NET by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id AAA10987; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 00:12:18 -0500 From: Hafizullah@aol.com Received: from emout07.mail.aol.com by relay5.UU.NET with SMTP id QQaboe21957; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 00:12:16 -0500 (EST) Received: by emout07.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id AAA24545 for tariqas@europe.std.com; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 00:12:10 -0500 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 00:12:10 -0500 Message-Id: <960205001208_136038059@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Salat with shoes on? Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: I also have very flat feet, but they don't hurt me a bit. Yet. My Rolfer gave me a set of exercises to grow arches, which he said will take a couple of years to do the job but arches will be a good thing to have as I move towards 50, since the flexing of the arch helps pump blood back to the heart. That job is supplemented by the muscles of the lower leg, but it would be nice to not have circulatory insufficiency in my golden years. Anyway, the Rolfers are absolute magicians at restructuring the body. It doesn't hurt anywhere near as bad as you've been led to believe. Really. I have seen some unbelievable things accomplished at their hands, and the changes they make are largely permanent. Even bones change, given the chance. I have every confidence that if you can find a good one in your area, it will be an enormous boost to both your physical well-being and your spiritual unfoldment. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Mon Feb 5 15:51:38 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA11469; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 11:58:08 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id LAA01717; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 11:04:40 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id LAA01697; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 11:04:36 -0500 Received: from cwis.unomaha.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA27299; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 10:50:48 -0500 Received: by cwis.unomaha.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA17702; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 09:51:39 -0600 Message-Id: <9602051551.AA17702@cwis.unomaha.edu> Subject: ENORMITIES (2) To: tariqas@world.std.com, msa-ec@world.std.com, msa-misc@htm3.ee.queensu.ca, msa@htm3.ee.queensu.ca, ameezanj@vnet.ibm.com, 4achmad@server.indo.net.id Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 09:51:38 -0600 (CST) From: Richard Bennett Cc: rbennett@cwis.unomaha.edu (Richard Bennett) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 5650 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: 786 asalaam the second in a series from Imam Dhahabi. May Allah (swt) by His mercy enable us to avoid them. ENORMITIES (2) ACCEPTING USURIOUS GAIN (RIBA) Allah (swt) says: "O' you who believe: fear Allah and forgo what remains of usurious gain if you are believers. If you will not, then know of a declaration of war (against you) from Allah and His messenger" (Quran 2:278-279) The Prophet (s) said: "May Allah curse him who eats of usurious gain (riba) of feeds it to another." (curse meaning to put someone far from the devine mercy) +++++++ WRONGFULLY CONSUMING AN ORPHAN'S PROPERTY Allah (swt) says: 1. "Verily, those who wrongfully eat the property of orphans but fill their bellies with fire, and shall roast in a blaze" (Quran 4;10) 2. "Approach not the orphan's property, save in exchange for that which is better" (Quran 6:152) +++++++ LYING ABOUTH THE PROPHET (S) Some scholars hold that lying about the Prophet (s) is kufr that puts one beyond the pale of Islam. There is no doubt that a premeditated lie against Allah and His messenger that declares something which is unlawful to be permissable or vice versa is pure unbelief. The question as to whether it is and enormity rather than outright unbelief only concerns lies about other than that. The Prophet (s) said: 1. "A lie about me is not the same as a lie about someone else: whoever intentionally lies about me shall take a place for himself in hell." 2. " Whoever relates words purportedly from me, thinking it is a lie, is a liar." It is clear from this that narrating a forged (mawdu') hadith is not permissable. +++++++ BREAKING ONE'S FAST DURING RAMADAN The Prophet (s) said: 1. "The five prescribed prayers, and from one friday prayer to another or from Ramadan to Ramadan, expiate the sins between them as long as the enormities are avoided." 2. "Islam is based on five things: testifying that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, performing the prayer, giving Zakat, fasting Ramadan, and the pilgramage to the House (Kaaba)." +++++++++ FLEEING FROM COMBAT IN JIHAD Allah (swt) says: "On that day, whoever turns his back to them, unless pretending flight in order to reattack, or separating to join another unit, will bear the wrath of Allah and his refuge will be hell, a terrible end" (Quran 8:16) +++++++++ FORNICATION Allah (swt) says: 1. "Approach not fornication, it is surely an indecency and evil as a way" (Quran 17:32) 2. "The fornicator and fornicatress, scourge them each a hundred stripes and let not pity for them take you" (Quran 24:2) 3. "The fornicator shall not wed other that a fornicatress or idolatress. The fornicatress, none shall wed her but a fornicator or idolator. That is unlawful for believers. (Quran 24:3) (note) The latter verse "was revealed when some poor Muslim emigrants in Medina were considering marrying the polytheists' prostitutes, who were wealthy, so that the prostitutes could provide for them. One opinion is that the Quranic prohibition concerned these prople alone. A second position is that it was a general prohibition, but was superseded by the revelation of the subsequent verse, 'And marry those of you who are without spouses " (Quran 24:32) The Prophet (s) said: "Whoever fornicates or drinks wine, Allah takes his faith from him as a man takes a shirt off over his head." +++++++++ THE LEADER WHO MISLEADS HIS FOLLOWING, THE TYRANT AND OPRESSOR Allah (swt) says: 1. "The dispute (way against) is only with those people who oppress people and wrongfully commit aggression in the land: these will have a painful torment" (Quran: 42:42) 2. "They did not forbid each other the evil that they did, and how wicked was what they would do" (Quran:5:79) The Prophet (s) said: 1. "All of you are trustees, and each is responsible for those entrusted to his care." 2. "Any superior who misrules his followers shall go to hell." 3. "There will come corrupt, tyrannous rulers; whoever confirms their lies and assists them in their oppression is not of me, nor I of him, and shall not meet me at my watering place in paradise." 4. "He who shows no mercy will not be shown any." 5. "The worst of your rulers shall be those whom you detest and who detest you, whom you curse and who curse you." They say, "O' Messenger of Allah, can we not throw them out?" and he replied, "no, not as long as they maintain the prescribed prayer among you." 6. "You'll be anxious to lead, and this will be a source of remorse to you on the Day of Judgement." +++++++++ DRINKING Allah (swt) says: 1. "They will ask you about wine and gambling. Say: 'There is great sin therein'" (Quran 2:219) 2. "O you who believe: wine, gambling, idols, and fortune-telling arrows are but filth of the Devil's handiwork, so shun them..." (Quran 5:90) The Prophet (s) said: 1. "Scourge whoever drinks wine. If he drinks it again, scourge him again. If he drinks it again, scourge him again. If he drinks it a fourth time, kill him." (Note: the ruling of this hadith was later superseded, for the Prophet (s) was brought a drunkard for a fourth time, but did not kill him, showing that execution had been superseded, though the hadith remains a proof that the crime of drunkeness is an enormity.) 2. "Allah has cursed wine, and whoever drinks it, pours it, sells it, buys it, presses it for another, presses it for himself, carries it, accepts its delivery, or eats its price." 3. "Whoever drinks wine in this world shall be forbidden paradise in the next." ++++ wasalaam, abdul ghani From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Mon Feb 5 16:43:33 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA22409; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 13:27:24 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id MAA17568; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 12:44:25 -0500 Received: from tymix.Tymnet.COM by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id MAA17556; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 12:44:20 -0500 Received: by tymix.Tymnet.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14017; Mon, 5 Feb 96 09:44:19 PST Received: from antares by tymix.Tymnet.COM (in.smtpd); 5 Feb 96 9:44:18 PST Received: from kirin.Tymnet.COM by antares.Tymnet.COM (8.6.5/UCB) id IAA24017; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 08:43:01 -0800 Received: by kirin.Tymnet.COM (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA01874; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 08:43:33 -0800 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 08:43:33 -0800 From: mmoore@antares.Tymnet.COM (Michael J. Moore) Message-Id: <9602051643.AA01874@kirin.Tymnet.COM> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: RE: Salat with shoes on? X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: > > This is to George: > > I have been advised by my doctor to even wear my shoes indoors, for I > have severly high aches in my feet which have collapsed, making me > painfully flat footed and with pronated ankles. I have to wear specially > made shoes with inserts to support my feet so I can walk without > pain...even wearing slippers around the house gives me pain when I walk, > and unless I have the support around me whole right foot at all times I'm > in pain. > > And I DO keep my feet clean! It just bothers me having to wear shoes in > my house, and it is very painful when a make salat, as I take them off! > There must be somebody who can advise me in this matter. > > Jamilla This should not be a problem. As you recall, I started this thread with Hadith that shows that the Prophet(SAWS) commanded that salat be done with shoes ON. He said don't be like the Jews and take your shoes off when you pray. Nobody has told me that this Hadith is not valid, so I will assume that it is. However, on a more practical side there is social custom and people could be upset if they see you wearing shoes at salat. Perhaps if you had a special pair of shoes and painted them white and put some red crosses on them and maybe the words 'Corrective arch support' or something like that. This way, people would see that the shoes were really medical devices and required for standing. Also, I am told that if you cannot stand, you can do salat sitting down. If fact, if you are not able to even sit up, you can do salat on your back by only moving your eyes. -Michael- From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue Feb 6 00:17:46 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA20390; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 19:23:43 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id TAA21016; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 19:23:42 -0500 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA17339; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 19:17:47 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id TAA20342; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 19:17:46 -0500 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 19:17:46 -0500 Message-Id: <199602060017.TAA20342@europe.std.com> To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Admin request Status: RO X-Status: >From habib@world.std.com Mon Feb 5 19:17:42 1996 Return-Path: Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id TAA20310; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 19:17:42 -0500 Received: from CCAT.SAS.UPENN.EDU by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA13597; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 19:12:48 -0500 Received: (from jharding@localhost) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA15336 for tariqas@world.std.com; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 19:12:19 -0500 From: John Harding Message-Id: <199602060012.TAA15336@ccat.sas.upenn.edu> To: tariqas@world.std.com Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 19:12:19 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 26 unsubscribe John Harding From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Mon Feb 5 23:34:12 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA10001; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 00:06:00 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id XAA21070; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 23:41:34 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id XAA21047; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 23:41:29 -0500 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28131; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 23:35:12 -0500 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 23:35:12 +0001 (EST) From: Steve H Rose Subject: Re: Salih i noor institue (fwd) To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 10:58:55 -0600 (CST) From: Jawad Qureshi X-Sender: c640429@indy67.gclab.missouri.edu To: tariqas@europe.std.com cc: tariqas@world.std.com > I am looking for an address of Ustad Bediuzzaman. I looking into > studying his works and books he wrote. Assalamo alaiakum dear brother! Here are some of the addresses that I know of on the Internet: http://www.netzone.com/~sbirge/magazine/htm (for the Nur Publications homepage) http://www.engr.wisc.edu/~kose/index.html (for actual selections from the Risale-i Nur) I highly recommend that these two be looked at, and studied. The contents are very important to understanding this world and the next. Wa min Allah at Tawfeeq, Assalamo alaikum wa rahmat Allah, Jawad. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Mon Feb 5 23:44:17 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA19906; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 00:27:06 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id XAA22157; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 23:51:22 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id XAA22146; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 23:51:18 -0500 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA02435; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 23:45:17 -0500 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 23:45:17 +0001 (EST) From: Steve H Rose Subject: Re: On Mysticism and "Sufis" (fwd) To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: From: MJVBEG@jazz.ucc.uno.edu Date: Sun, 04 Feb 1996 20:59:19 -0600 (CST) @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ Inna Al-Diina a9inda Allahi Al-Islam @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ Indeed, religion from Allah's point of view is Islam. @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ There is nothing more simple to understand: there is Islam and Umm-ul-Islam. There is Al-Kitab and Umm-ul-Kitab. Hence, Sufism and Umm-ul-Islam and Umm-ul-Kitab are co-pre-existent. All the rest is commentary. =MJVB= From -d0-99.127@microsoft.com Tue Feb 6 07:15:09 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA10489; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 02:40:50 -0500 Received: from tide03.microsoft.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id CAA09413; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 02:40:48 -0500 Received: by tide03.microsoft.com; id XAA26526; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 23:50:53 -0800 Received: from europe.std.com(192.74.137.10) by tide03.microsoft.com via smap (g3.0.3) id xma026510; Mon, 5 Feb 96 23:50:33 -0800 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id CAA08076; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 02:15:34 -0500 Received: from yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id CAA08023; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 02:15:26 -0500 Received: from localhost (darice@localhost) by yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (8.6.4/8.6.4) id SAA20284; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 18:15:11 +1100 Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 18:15:09 +1100 (EST) From: Dien Alfred Rice To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: On Mysticism and "Sufis" (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Assalamu alaikum, Peace be with you, > > From: MJVBEG@jazz.ucc.uno.edu > Date: Sun, 04 Feb 1996 20:59:19 -0600 (CST) > > @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ > > Inna Al-Diina a9inda Allahi Al-Islam > > @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ > > Indeed, religion from Allah's point of view is Islam. > > @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ > > > There is nothing more simple to understand: there is Islam and > Umm-ul-Islam. There is Al-Kitab and Umm-ul-Kitab. Hence, Sufism and > Umm-ul-Islam and Umm-ul-Kitab are co-pre-existent. All the rest is > commentary. > According to the Qur'an, all those who followed the truth before the Prophet Muhammad (s) were "Muslims," such as Abraham, and Jesus, and his followers.... I haven't seen it expressed this way yet, but to me I think the true followers of any true traditional religion (and in this, I personally include Buddhism, Taoism, etc.) are "Muslims," in the sense of "those who submit." While the connection with Islam and these eastern religions is not obvious, via a study of Sufism the connection becomes much clearer :) Wassalam, Farid ud-Dien Rice From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue Feb 6 11:29:09 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA12843; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 07:00:30 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id GAA17755; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 06:21:25 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id GAA17746; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 06:21:22 -0500 Received: from UNiX.asb.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA06192; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 06:17:11 -0500 Received: from asb15 (sls5.asb.com [165.254.128.15]) by UNiX.asb.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id GAA14501; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 06:29:09 -0500 Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 06:29:09 -0500 Message-Id: <199602061129.GAA14501@UNiX.asb.com> X-Sender: fhaddad@unix.asb.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: msa-ec@world.std.com, tariqas@world.std.com From: fhaddad@unix.asb.com (Fouad Haddad) Subject: [13] On dhikr (Remembrance of God) Cc: soc-religion-islam@telerama.lm.com X-Mailer: Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: [13] ON DHIKR (from NUZHAT AL-MAJALIS) More on "LA ILAHA ILLALLAH" ("No god but the One God") The Refusal of Tyrants to Utter It I saw the following account as part of the explanation of God's saying: "And speak (O Moses and Aaron) unto him (Pharaoh) a gentle word" (20:44): Moses said: "O Lord, how can a word be gentle?" God replied: "Say to him: "Would you like a good compromise? You have followed your own self for four hundred and fifty years; follow our intent but for one year, and God will forgive you all your sins. If not one year, then one month; if not, one week; if not, one single day; if not, one single hour. If you do not (wish to humor us) for all of an hour, then say in a single breath: "There is no god but God" so that I shall be able to bring peace to you." After Moses conveyed the message, Pharaoh gathered his armies and said to them: "I am your Most High Lord!" (79:24) At this the heavens and the earth shook and pleaded before God the Glorious and Exalted that Pharaoh be put to death. God said: "He is like the dog: only the stick is good for him. O Moses, cast your staff" (cf. 7:117, 27:10, 28:31). Moses cast his staff (which became a huge snake) and the magicians (of Pharaoh's court) immediately submitted. Pharaoh fled to his bedchamber. Moses said: "If you don't come out, I shall order it to enter where you are." Pharaoh said: "Give me a little respite." Moses answered: "I have no permission to respite you." But God the Exalted inspired to him: "Respite him, for verily I am the Clement, I do not hasten to punish." Pharaoh began to relieve himself forty times a day while previously he would relieve himself only once every forty days. Moses gave him respite until the Day of adornment (yawm al-zeena) which will be explained in the section on the merit of excellent manners in the chapter on death insha Allah. When the day came Pharaoh exceeded his bounds and rebelled. God therefore "seized him and made him an example for the afterlife and the former" (79:25); that is, He punished him with drowning because of his former word ("I am your Most High Lord") and He punished him with Gehanna because of his latter word, when he said: "I know not that ye have a god other than me" (28:38). Ibn `Abbas (r) said: "This is the former word, while the other came later, and between them lay forty years." I saw mentioned in the book "Zumrat al-`ulum wa zuhrat al-nujum" (The Array of the Sciences and the Brightness of Stars) from the Prophet (s): He said: "Gabriel told me: "I stood in wait before God at the time Pharaoh said: "And what is the Lord of the Worlds?" (26:23) whereupon I outstretched two of my wings to smite him with punishment, but God the Exalted said: "Wait, O Gabriel! He hastens to punish who fears the lapse of time." It was also mentioned in that book that when Pharaoh said: "I am your Lord the Most High" (79:24) Gabriel wanted to shake the earth from under his feet, but when he sought permission from his Lord the Exalted He did not give it to him and ordered him to disregard Pharaoh instead. Al-`Ala'i (the author of "`Umdat al-Qari", a massive commentary on Bukhari's "Sahih") said in his explanation of the sura of the Story (al-qasas) that Iblis entered Pharaoh's presence as the latter was in the bath and said: "O Pharaoh, I enticed you with every transgression, but I never told you to claim absolute Lordship!" Then he gave him forty lashes and left him in anger. Pharaoh said to him: "O Iblis, should I take back this claim?" He replied: "It would not be right for you to take it back after making it." A group of the disbelievers of Quraysh gathered among whom was the Pharaoh of this Community -- Abu Jahl -- at Abu Talib's house during the latter's last illness. Abu Jahl said to him: "You know what has taken place between us and your brother's son. Therefore obtain what is rightfully ours from him and what is righfully his from us before you die." Abu Talib called the Prophet (s) and said: "O my nephew, these are the nobility of your people, so leave them be and they shall leave you be." He replied: "Do they agree to obey me if I ask them to say but one word?" Abu Jahl said -- may God curse him: "Nay, we shall obey you if you ask us to say ten!" The Prophet (s) then said: "Say: La ilaha illallah," whereupon they said: "Are you asking us to reduce all our gods to only one? Truly you are asking us for the strangest thing!" and they dispersed. Abu Talib said: "O Muhammad, you have asked them for nothing excessive." That is: You have not asked them for anything difficult. Concerning God's saying: "Judge aright between us and be not unjust (lit. do not exceed the proper bounds)" (38:22) -- that is: Do not swerve in your judgment -- the Prophet (s) hoped that his uncle would profess Islam, so he said to him: "Say it (the phrase: There is no God but God alone), so that I will be permitted to intercede for you on the Day of the rising." Abu Talib replied: "Were it not that people -- that is: the Quraysh -- might think that I said it out of fear (of death), indeed I would say it." More will be said about this matter in the section on the Prophet's miracles insha Allah. Al-Razi said in his explanation of the sura of Cattle (al-an`am): "Abu Talib said: "Ask me to say other than this because your people hate it." The Prophet (s) replied: "I will never say other than this even if they were to dislodge the sun from its place and put it in my hand." They said: "Then stop cursing our gods, otherwise we will curse you and Him Who orders you to do this," whereupon God's saying was revealed: "Revile not those unto whom they pray beside God lest they wrongfully revile God through ignorance" (6:109). If it is said: "To curse the idols is among the most meritorious acts of obedience to God; why then did God forbid it?" The answer is: God forbade it because cursing them might lead to the gravest of transgressions -- exalted is God far above the saying of wrong- doers -- namely cursing God and His Messenger, and it is an obligation to take precautions against it. Blessings and Peace on the Prophet, his Family, and his Companions Fouad Haddad Naqshbandi-Haqqani Foundation of Ahl al-Sunna wal-Jama`a URL: http://www.best.com/~informe/mateen/haqqani.html [in 9 languages] From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue Feb 6 14:00:43 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA09596; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 10:10:31 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id IAA25841; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 08:48:43 -0500 Received: from UNiX.asb.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id IAA25836; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 08:48:40 -0500 Received: from asb20 (sls10.asb.com [165.254.128.20]) by UNiX.asb.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA15722 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 09:00:43 -0500 Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 09:00:43 -0500 Message-Id: <199602061400.JAA15722@UNiX.asb.com> X-Sender: fhaddad@unix.asb.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: fhaddad@unix.asb.com (Fouad Haddad) Subject: RE: Salat with shoes on? X-Mailer: Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: >As you recall, I started this thread with >Hadith that shows that the Prophet(SAWS) commanded that salat be done with >shoes ON. He said don't be like the Jews and take your shoes off when you >pray. Nobody has told me that this Hadith is not valid, so I will assume >that it is. The inference of the legal status of human actions in Islam resides in the authoritative interpretation of the Qur'an and hadith according to the established understanding and practice of the community of scholars, foremost among them the Companions of the Prophet (s). The books of fiqh are replete with the expressions: "The majority of scholars say..." "The scholars unanimously say..." "Some scholars say..." "The greater number of the scholars say..." "Those of this school say, while those of that school say..." This careful, comprehensive method has upon it the seal of Allah's support and the Prophet's approval, as stated in many verses and hadiths regarding ijma` (consensus). Indeed ijma` is the third source for the derivation of the entire shari`a (Islamic system of law). Anything which departs from it, even if it should claim a basis in Qur'an and hadith, is in fact incorrect. The following are the established positions of the scholars on the question of praying while wearing shoes. 1. _Entering_ the masjid (place of prayer) wearing shoes that have impurities on them is permitted in case of need (yajuz li al- haja), however, it is imperative to take precautions so as not to defile the masjid with what may fall from the shoes. This is the ruling of the Maliki and Shafi`i schools. The Hanafis say: Everything which entails bringing something impure into the masjid is disliked to the point of being forbidden (yukrahu tahriman). The Hanbalis say: If bringing something impure into the masjid leads to the falling of an impurity inside (or onto) the masjid, then it is forbidden (haram) to bring it inside, otherwise it is not forbidden. Source: `Abd al-Rahman al-Jaziri, "al-fiqh `ala al-madhahib al-arba`a" [Islamic Law According to the Four Schools], Book of Prayer, Heading: "naqsh al-masjid wa idkhal shay'in najisin fih" [Engraving the Place of Prayer and Bringing Something Impure Into It]. 2. Sa`id ibn Yazid relates: I said to Anas ibn Malik: "Did Allah's Messenger (s) use to pray while wearing sandals?" He said: "Yes." Bukhari: Book of salat, Chapter entitled: "Prayer While Wearing Sandals" and Muslim: Book of Mosques and Places of Prayers, Chapter entitled: "The Permissibility of Praying While Wearing Sandals." Imam Nawawi said: There is in this hadith the permissibility to pray wearing sandals and leather socks as long as one has not ascertained that there is an impurity on them. Regarding whether, when the sole of the socks (or sandals) are soiled with some impurity and the wearer rubs them on the ground, his prayer while wearing them is valid: There are two sayings of Shafi`i's -- may Allah be well pleased with him. The sounder of the two is that it is invalid. Source: Nawawi, "Sharh Sahih Muslim" [Commentary on "Sahih Muslim"], Kitab 5, Bab 14, Hadith 60/555. Ibn Hajar said: Ibn Battal said: "Praying while wearing sandals presupposes that there is no impurity on them. This said, it is one of the "permitted things" (min al-rukhas), as Ibn Daqiq al-`Id said, not one of the praiseworthy ones (la min al- mustahabbat), for to pray while wearing one's shoes does not enter into the desired intent of salat, and although shoes are among the garments that beautify [a reference to the verse: "Wear your beautiful apparel at every time and place of prayer" (7:31)], nevertheless the fact that they are in contact with the ground where impurities abound may make them fall short of that rank. And should attending to self-beautification conflict with seeing to the removal of impurities, the latter takes precedence because repelling corruption comes before pursuiing benefits." Ibn Battal said: "Except if a proof-text should be produced placing the removal of impurities after self-beautification in order of priority." Ibn Hajar comments: "Abu Dawud and al-Hakim relate from the narration of Shaddad ibn Aws from the Prophet (s): "Be different from the Jews, for they do not pray in their sandals nor in their leather socks," therefore the praiseworthiness of praying while wearing shoes is only for the purpose of the aforementioned difference." Source: Ibn Hajar, "Fath al-Bari bi sharh sahih al-Bukhari" [The Victory of the Creator: A Commentary on the "Sahih" of Bukhari] Book of salat, Bab 24, Hadith 386. 3. The Companion `Abd Allah ibn `Umar (r) disliked to pray while wearing his sandals. Source: "Musannaf Ibn Abi Shayba" 1:109b; Muhammad Rawwas Qal`aji, "Mawsu`at fiqh `Abd Allah ibn `Umar" [Encyclopedia of the fiqh of `Abd Allah ibn `Umar] (Beirut: Dar al-nafa'is, 1986) p. 486 #3. 4. Of the acts disliked in a ritual prayer according to the Hanafi school is the performance of salat while "wearing clothes for daily use which are not always free from dirt." (Shoes most certainly enter into this category.) Source: al-Shurunbalali, "Nur al-idah wa najat al-qulub" [The Light of Clarification and the Salvation of Hearts], trans. and expanded as "Salvation of the Soul and Islamic Devotions" by Muhammad Abu al-Qasim (London: Kegan Paul International, 1981) p. 119 #53. 5. Abu Sa`id al-Khudri, and Bakr ibn `Abd Allah relate in Abu Dawud (Book of salat, Chapter entitled: "On Praying in Sandals"): "While Allah's Messenger was leading his Companions in prayer he took off his sandals and laid them on his left side; so when the people saw this they removed their sandals. When he finished his prayer he asked: What made you remove your sandals? They replied: We saw you remove your sandals, so we removed ours. He said: Gabriel came to me and informed me that there was filth on them. When any of you comes to the mosque, he should look: if he finds filth on his sandals, he should wipe it off and then pray in them." Baha' al-Din al-Maqdisi al-Hanbali (d. 624H) said: "The face of the evidence in the hadith of Abu Dawud is that the Prophet (s) had not been aware of the impurity mentioned until he was told about it, and then he resumed his prayer where he left it off. If the prayer had been invalidated (by the interruption) he would have started it over from the beginning... The same holds when a person forgets (to check his sandals for filth): if he realizes there is filth while he is praying, and he is able to eliminate it without much effort, he eliminates it and resumes his prayer where he left it off as the Prophet (s) did. Otherwise he starts the prayer over." Source: "al-`udda sharh al-`umda" [The Preparation: A Commentary on (Muwaffaq al-Din al-Maqdisi's) "al-`umda"], Book of salat, Chapter entiled: "The Conditions Necessary For Salat." Blessings and Peace on the Prophet, his Family, and his Companions. Naqshbandi-Haqqani Foundation of Ahl al-Sunna wal-Jama`a URL: http://www.best.com/~informe/mateen/haqqani.html [in 9 languages] From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue Feb 6 14:00:37 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA16325; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 10:18:33 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id IAA25831; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 08:48:34 -0500 Received: from UNiX.asb.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id IAA25826; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 08:48:32 -0500 Received: from asb20 (sls10.asb.com [165.254.128.20]) by UNiX.asb.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA15710 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 09:00:37 -0500 Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 09:00:37 -0500 Message-Id: <199602061400.JAA15710@UNiX.asb.com> X-Sender: fhaddad@unix.asb.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: fhaddad@unix.asb.com (Fouad Haddad) Subject: Re: mystics as historians (fwd) X-Mailer: Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: >I become a historian because who knows where I'll find Truth, since >"Allah is the best of Deceivers." Perhaps the best rendering for this difficult verse is by al-Khazin: "God is the best of requiters for the evil of evil-doers." Remarks: 1. Translations of Verse 3:54 for "wallahu khayru al-makirin": "And God is the best of devisers" (Arberry) or "the best of planners" (Y. Ali), or even "the best of schemers" (Pickthall). Also Irving: "And God is the best Plotter" and Sale: "And God is the best deviser of stratagems." 2. Paraphrases of the medieval lexicographers for the verb "makara" as reported s.v. "makara" in E.W. Lane's "Arabic-Englich Lexicon": "God recompensed -- or requited -- for practicing deceit" ("Kitab Layth," Fayyumi's "Misbah", and "Taj al-`Arus"). "Makrullah" (God's guile) "signifies God's granting a man respite or delay, and enabling him to accomplish his worldly aims so as to bring upon himself the punishment due to his evil actions" (Al-Raghib and "Taj al -`Arus"), or "God's causing His trials to befall His enemies, exclusively of His friends" (Ibn al-Athir), or "His taking men little by little, so that they do not reckon upon it, bestowing upon them renewed favors for acts of obedience which are imagined to be accepted whereas they are rejected" ("Taj al-`Arus"). 3. Qur'anic commentaries of 3:54: al-Khazin: "Originally the word "makr" means diverting someone's attention from one's actual intention towards him through guile... "Makr" on the part of creatures means perfidy, deceit, and ruse. God named the requital with the same name as the thing requited. God's "guile" in this particular matter consists in His giving the physical appearance of Jesus to the very one who had betrayed him (so that he was caught and crucified instead of Jesus)... "wallahu khayru al-makirin" means that He is the best of requiters for the evil of evil-doers." Baydawi: "God devised (makarallah), that is, when He raised Jesus and cast his likeness upon the one who had intended his destruction so that he himself was killed. "Devising" originally means one's ruse which precipitates an evil end for someone else, and it is not ascribed to God except in the way of a rhetorical-comparison-expressed-in-identical- terms [al-muqabala wa al-izdiwaj]."* [*Cf. the hadith in Bukhari and Muslim: "God does not grow tired (of giving) even if you grow tired (of asking)."] Nasafi: "Guile is not ascribed to God because it is a blameworthy attribute of creatures, similar to deception and mockery." Fayruzabadi ("Tafsir Ibn `Abbas"): "It means: God is the best of those who intend something (khayru al-muridin), and it is also said: the best of craftsmen (khayru al-sani`in)." Blessings and Peace on the Prophet, his Family, and his Companions. Fouad Haddad Naqshbandi-Haqqani Foundation of Ahl al-Sunna wal-Jama`a URL: http://www.best.com/~informe/mateen/haqqani.html [in 9 languages] From -d0-99.127@microsoft.com Tue Feb 6 14:00:43 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA22934; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 10:28:00 -0500 Received: from tide03.microsoft.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id KAA03332; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 10:27:52 -0500 Received: by tide03.microsoft.com; id HAA06752; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 07:37:58 -0800 Received: from europe.std.com(192.74.137.10) by tide03.microsoft.com via smap (g3.0.3) id xma003567; Tue, 6 Feb 96 07:18:01 -0800 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id IAA25841; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 08:48:43 -0500 Received: from UNiX.asb.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id IAA25836; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 08:48:40 -0500 Received: from asb20 (sls10.asb.com [165.254.128.20]) by UNiX.asb.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA15722 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 09:00:43 -0500 Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 09:00:43 -0500 Message-Id: <199602061400.JAA15722@UNiX.asb.com> X-Sender: fhaddad@unix.asb.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: fhaddad@unix.asb.com (Fouad Haddad) Subject: RE: Salat with shoes on? X-Mailer: Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: >As you recall, I started this thread with >Hadith that shows that the Prophet(SAWS) commanded that salat be done with >shoes ON. He said don't be like the Jews and take your shoes off when you >pray. Nobody has told me that this Hadith is not valid, so I will assume >that it is. The inference of the legal status of human actions in Islam resides in the authoritative interpretation of the Qur'an and hadith according to the established understanding and practice of the community of scholars, foremost among them the Companions of the Prophet (s). The books of fiqh are replete with the expressions: "The majority of scholars say..." "The scholars unanimously say..." "Some scholars say..." "The greater number of the scholars say..." "Those of this school say, while those of that school say..." This careful, comprehensive method has upon it the seal of Allah's support and the Prophet's approval, as stated in many verses and hadiths regarding ijma` (consensus). Indeed ijma` is the third source for the derivation of the entire shari`a (Islamic system of law). Anything which departs from it, even if it should claim a basis in Qur'an and hadith, is in fact incorrect. The following are the established positions of the scholars on the question of praying while wearing shoes. 1. _Entering_ the masjid (place of prayer) wearing shoes that have impurities on them is permitted in case of need (yajuz li al- haja), however, it is imperative to take precautions so as not to defile the masjid with what may fall from the shoes. This is the ruling of the Maliki and Shafi`i schools. The Hanafis say: Everything which entails bringing something impure into the masjid is disliked to the point of being forbidden (yukrahu tahriman). The Hanbalis say: If bringing something impure into the masjid leads to the falling of an impurity inside (or onto) the masjid, then it is forbidden (haram) to bring it inside, otherwise it is not forbidden. Source: `Abd al-Rahman al-Jaziri, "al-fiqh `ala al-madhahib al-arba`a" [Islamic Law According to the Four Schools], Book of Prayer, Heading: "naqsh al-masjid wa idkhal shay'in najisin fih" [Engraving the Place of Prayer and Bringing Something Impure Into It]. 2. Sa`id ibn Yazid relates: I said to Anas ibn Malik: "Did Allah's Messenger (s) use to pray while wearing sandals?" He said: "Yes." Bukhari: Book of salat, Chapter entitled: "Prayer While Wearing Sandals" and Muslim: Book of Mosques and Places of Prayers, Chapter entitled: "The Permissibility of Praying While Wearing Sandals." Imam Nawawi said: There is in this hadith the permissibility to pray wearing sandals and leather socks as long as one has not ascertained that there is an impurity on them. Regarding whether, when the sole of the socks (or sandals) are soiled with some impurity and the wearer rubs them on the ground, his prayer while wearing them is valid: There are two sayings of Shafi`i's -- may Allah be well pleased with him. The sounder of the two is that it is invalid. Source: Nawawi, "Sharh Sahih Muslim" [Commentary on "Sahih Muslim"], Kitab 5, Bab 14, Hadith 60/555. Ibn Hajar said: Ibn Battal said: "Praying while wearing sandals presupposes that there is no impurity on them. This said, it is one of the "permitted things" (min al-rukhas), as Ibn Daqiq al-`Id said, not one of the praiseworthy ones (la min al- mustahabbat), for to pray while wearing one's shoes does not enter into the desired intent of salat, and although shoes are among the garments that beautify [a reference to the verse: "Wear your beautiful apparel at every time and place of prayer" (7:31)], nevertheless the fact that they are in contact with the ground where impurities abound may make them fall short of that rank. And should attending to self-beautification conflict with seeing to the removal of impurities, the latter takes precedence because repelling corruption comes before pursuiing benefits." Ibn Battal said: "Except if a proof-text should be produced placing the removal of impurities after self-beautification in order of priority." Ibn Hajar comments: "Abu Dawud and al-Hakim relate from the narration of Shaddad ibn Aws from the Prophet (s): "Be different from the Jews, for they do not pray in their sandals nor in their leather socks," therefore the praiseworthiness of praying while wearing shoes is only for the purpose of the aforementioned difference." Source: Ibn Hajar, "Fath al-Bari bi sharh sahih al-Bukhari" [The Victory of the Creator: A Commentary on the "Sahih" of Bukhari] Book of salat, Bab 24, Hadith 386. 3. The Companion `Abd Allah ibn `Umar (r) disliked to pray while wearing his sandals. Source: "Musannaf Ibn Abi Shayba" 1:109b; Muhammad Rawwas Qal`aji, "Mawsu`at fiqh `Abd Allah ibn `Umar" [Encyclopedia of the fiqh of `Abd Allah ibn `Umar] (Beirut: Dar al-nafa'is, 1986) p. 486 #3. 4. Of the acts disliked in a ritual prayer according to the Hanafi school is the performance of salat while "wearing clothes for daily use which are not always free from dirt." (Shoes most certainly enter into this category.) Source: al-Shurunbalali, "Nur al-idah wa najat al-qulub" [The Light of Clarification and the Salvation of Hearts], trans. and expanded as "Salvation of the Soul and Islamic Devotions" by Muhammad Abu al-Qasim (London: Kegan Paul International, 1981) p. 119 #53. 5. Abu Sa`id al-Khudri, and Bakr ibn `Abd Allah relate in Abu Dawud (Book of salat, Chapter entitled: "On Praying in Sandals"): "While Allah's Messenger was leading his Companions in prayer he took off his sandals and laid them on his left side; so when the people saw this they removed their sandals. When he finished his prayer he asked: What made you remove your sandals? They replied: We saw you remove your sandals, so we removed ours. He said: Gabriel came to me and informed me that there was filth on them. When any of you comes to the mosque, he should look: if he finds filth on his sandals, he should wipe it off and then pray in them." Baha' al-Din al-Maqdisi al-Hanbali (d. 624H) said: "The face of the evidence in the hadith of Abu Dawud is that the Prophet (s) had not been aware of the impurity mentioned until he was told about it, and then he resumed his prayer where he left it off. If the prayer had been invalidated (by the interruption) he would have started it over from the beginning... The same holds when a person forgets (to check his sandals for filth): if he realizes there is filth while he is praying, and he is able to eliminate it without much effort, he eliminates it and resumes his prayer where he left it off as the Prophet (s) did. Otherwise he starts the prayer over." Source: "al-`udda sharh al-`umda" [The Preparation: A Commentary on (Muwaffaq al-Din al-Maqdisi's) "al-`umda"], Book of salat, Chapter entiled: "The Conditions Necessary For Salat." Blessings and Peace on the Prophet, his Family, and his Companions. Naqshbandi-Haqqani Foundation of Ahl al-Sunna wal-Jama`a URL: http://www.best.com/~informe/mateen/haqqani.html [in 9 languages] From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue Feb 6 17:45:43 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA27957; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 13:24:56 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id MAA24183; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 12:44:29 -0500 Received: from mhv.net by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id MAA24178; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 12:44:26 -0500 Received: by mhv.net (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA25405; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 12:45:44 -0500 Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 12:45:43 -0500 (EST) From: Mike Graffam Subject: Re: On Mysticism and "Sufis" (fwd) To: tariqas@facteur.std.com In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19960206125000.002e7774@worldweb.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 1478 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: On Tue, 6 Feb 1996, James McCaig wrote: > Farid ud-Dien Rice has said it very well. The message of the prophets of > all the world's great religions has been essentially the same, given in > different ways at different times to suit the needs of those to whom the > message was brought. The challenge is to find the similarities in these > religions and to attempt to ignore the differences, which cause so much > strife in the world. Nay I say! :) I dont think we should ignore differences, I see this happening all around me..at the price of many beautiful traditions. There is a tendancy to try and blend all the world's religions into one religion..emphasizing our common threads and forgetting our places of departure. I cannot tell you how much this saddens me. How long before the Bible, Quran and the Sutras are discarded because they are among our differences? I do not think we should forget or ignore our differences, I think we should revel in them. These differences are what make us unique and beautiful. Please understand that recoginizing our differences does not mean being violent, hostile or intolerent. If we all live up to our traditions - if every Muslim is the very best Muslim they can be, and every Christian, Jew, Buddhist and Hindu are the very best they can be - then surely we will have peace and tolerance...and it will not be for the price of our traditions. Michael Graffam - mgraffam@mhv.net http://www1.mhv.net/~mgraffam - Mysticism Page From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue Feb 6 20:36:36 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA27591; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 16:19:42 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id PAA00224; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 15:38:16 -0500 Received: from relay5.UU.NET by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id PAA00150; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 15:38:09 -0500 From: Jinavamsa@aol.com Received: from emout10.mail.aol.com by relay5.UU.NET with SMTP id QQabug08412; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 15:38:07 -0500 (EST) Received: by emout10.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA08150 for tariqas@europe.std.com; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 15:36:36 -0500 Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 15:36:36 -0500 Message-Id: <960206153636_416036958@emout10.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Translation? [was Re: On Mysticism and "Sufis" (fwd)] Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: In a message dated 96-02-05 23:52:00 EST, you write: > There is nothing more simple to understand: there is Islam and >Umm-ul-Islam. There is Al-Kitab and Umm-ul-Kitab. Hence, Sufism and >Umm-ul-Islam and Umm-ul-Kitab are co-pre-existent. All the rest is >commentary. translation, please. Jinavamsa From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue Feb 6 20:36:53 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA00823; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 16:24:30 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id PAA00297; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 15:38:23 -0500 Received: from relay3.UU.NET by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id PAA00257; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 15:38:18 -0500 From: Jinavamsa@aol.com Received: from emout07.mail.aol.com by relay3.UU.NET with SMTP id QQabug17905; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 15:38:14 -0500 (EST) Received: by emout07.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA17034 for tariqas@europe.std.com; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 15:36:53 -0500 Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 15:36:53 -0500 Message-Id: <960206153651_416037016@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: tolerance [Re: On Mysticism and "Sufis" (fwd)] Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: In a message dated 96-02-06 12:46:28 EST, you write: > I do not think we should >forget or ignore our differences, I think we should revel in them. >These differences are what make us unique and beautiful. >Please understand that recoginizing our differences does not >mean being violent, hostile or intolerent. If we all live up >to our traditions - if every Muslim is the very best Muslim >they can be, and every Christian, Jew, Buddhist and Hindu are >the very best they can be - then surely we will have peace >and tolerance... may it be > and it will not be for the price of our traditions. may peaceful, mutually respectful if not mutually supportive tolerance radiance and enlighten our universe, as you imply could happen, >Michael Graffam - mgraffam@mhv.net >http://www1.mhv.net/~mgraffam - Mysticism Page ameen, amen, may it be so, inshallah, ... Jinavamsa From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue Feb 6 22:43:00 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29250; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 18:35:02 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id RAA18927; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 17:50:55 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id RAA18901; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 17:50:49 -0500 Received: from cwis.unomaha.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24381; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 17:42:42 -0500 Received: by cwis.unomaha.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA27937; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 16:43:01 -0600 Message-Id: <9602062243.AA27937@cwis.unomaha.edu> Subject: ENORMITIES (3) To: tariqas@world.std.com, msa-ec@world.std.com, msa@htm3.ee.queensu.ca, ameezanj@vnet.ibm.com, 4achmed@server.indo.net.id Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 16:43:00 -0600 (CST) From: Richard Bennett Cc: rbennett@cwis.unomaha.edu (Richard Bennett) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2928 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: 786 asalaam, the third in the series: ARRPGANCE, PRIDE, CONCEIT, VANITY, AND HAUGHTINESS Allah (swt) says: 1. "Moses said, "i surely seek refuge in my Lord and yours from every arrogant person who disbelieves in the Day of Reckoning" (Quran 40:27) 2. "Assuredly, Allah loves not those who hold aloof out of pride" (Quran 16:23) 3. "Such is the Final Abode. We grant it to those who seek not exhaltation in the land, nor corruption" (Quran 28:83) 4. "turn not your cheek from people out of pride, nor walk haughtily through the land, for Allah loves no one who is conceited and boastful" (Quran 31:18) The Prophet (s) said: 1. "Tyrants and the arrogant will be raised on the Last Day as grain strewn underfoot that prople will upon." 2. "No one with the slightest particle of arrogance in his heart will enter paradise." A man remarked, "But a man likes his clothes to be nice and his sandals good." The Prophet (s) said, "Verily, Allah is beautiful and loves beauty. Arrogance is refusing to acknowledge what is right and considering others beneath one." 3. Allah (swt) says, "Greatness is My garment and haughtiness My mantle: whoever vies with Me for them I will throw them into hell." 4. Salama ibn al-Akwa' recounts that a man was eating with his left hand in the presence of the Prophet (s). The Prophet (s), "Eat with your right," to which the man replied, "I cannot," though nothing stopped him but arrogance. The Prophet (s) said, "May you not be able to." And the man could never lift his right hand to his mouth again." The wickedest arrogance is that of someone who exhalts himself over people because of his learning and gloats to himself about his superiority. The knowledge of such a person is of absolutely no benefit to him. Whoever learns sacred knowledge for the sake of the next world is unsettled by his learning, his heart is humbled and his ego lowered. Such a person lies in wait for his selfishness and never lets it get free rein. He constantly takes his ego to task and corrects it. Were he to neglect it, it would diverge from the right path and destroy him. The person who seeks knowledge to take pride in it or to gain a position of leadership, looking distainfully at other Muslims, thinking them fools and making light of them---all this is the most enormous arrogance, and "no one with the slightest particle of arrogance in his heart will enter paradise." +++++++++ BEARING FALSE WITNESS Allah (swt) says: 1. "Shun the abomination of idols, and shun false testimony" (Quran 22:30) The Prophet (s) said: 1. "On the Day of Judgement, the feet of the person who bore false witness will not stir from their place before their owner is condemned to hell" 2. "Shall I tell you of the worst enormities?---worshipping others with Allah, showing disrespect to parents, giving a false statement, and testifying to the truth of a falsehood." From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue Feb 6 23:18:14 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA12837; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 19:01:33 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id SAA22427; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 18:18:21 -0500 Received: from dns1.uga.edu by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id SAA22405; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 18:18:17 -0500 Received: from cacimbo.ggy.uga.edu (cacimbo.ggy.uga.edu [128.192.40.157]) by dns1.uga.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) with ESMTP id SAA24378 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 18:18:16 -0500 Received: (from btaylor@localhost) by cacimbo.ggy.uga.edu (8.6.10/8.6.10) id SAA18047; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 18:18:15 -0500 Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 18:18:14 -0500 (EST) From: "B. Taylor" X-Sender: btaylor@cacimbo To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: God and "deception" In-Reply-To: <199602061400.JAA15710@UNiX.asb.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: On Tue, 6 Feb 1996, Fouad Haddad wrote: > >I become a historian because who knows where I'll find Truth, since > >"Allah is the best of Deceivers." > > Perhaps the best rendering for this difficult verse is by al-Khazin: > "God is the best of requiters for the evil of evil-doers." > > Remarks: > 1. Translations of Verse 3:54 for "wallahu khayru al-makirin": > > "And God is the best of devisers" (Arberry) or "the best of planners" > (Y. Ali), or even "the best of schemers" (Pickthall). Also Irving: > "And God is the best Plotter" and Sale: "And God is the best deviser > of stratagems." > Dear Fouad: Assalaam aleikum. Thank you for posting the diversity of translations and commentary on the Koranic verse describing God's "deception." I believe they demonstrate the difficulty and beauty of translation and interpretation. Unfortunately, I do not read arabic nor have I read a lot of Koranic commentary. Thus, each translation and interpretation adds to the scope of my "understanding", like windowpanes in a window through which I longly gaze. I would like to add the quotations that you have posted with some verses on this topic from Mevlana Jalal al-Din Rumi: How should I deceive Thee and put Thee in my bag? For Thou art the root of all deception and the lamp of every trickster. -- Be not secure from God's deception, though you see a hundred good fortunes. If you imagine certainty, rub your eyes. For God's deception is so swift that your spirit, even if only terrestrial, may perceive itselg as celestial. -- God is full of deception. He will show you beautiful forms, but in their inside lurk evil forms. He does this so that man in his arrogance will not be deluded into thinking, "I have come up with a wonderful idea and task." The above are translated in William Chittick's _Sufi Path of Love: The Spiritual Teachings of Rumi_, p.60-61. love, brad From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue Feb 6 12:50:00 1996 Received: from relay6.UU.NET by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA03889; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 20:44:00 -0500 Received: from europe.std.com by relay6.UU.NET with SMTP id QQabti19633; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 09:40:25 -0500 (EST) Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id HAA21594; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 07:48:38 -0500 Received: from fastmail.worldweb.net by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id HAA21589; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 07:48:36 -0500 Received: from dns.worldweb.net (dns.worldweb.net [204.117.218.2]) by fastmail.worldweb.net (8.7.2/8.7.2) with SMTP id HAA03739 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 07:55:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from JIM ([204.117.218.173]) by dns.worldweb.net with SMTP; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 9:07:15 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960206125000.002e7774@worldweb.net> X-Sender: jmccaig@worldweb.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 06 Feb 1996 07:50:00 -0500 To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: James McCaig Subject: Re: On Mysticism and "Sufis" (fwd) Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: At 06:15 PM 2/6/96 +1100, Dien Alfred Rice wrote: >According to the Qur'an, all those who followed the truth before the >Prophet Muhammad (s) were "Muslims," such as Abraham, and Jesus, and his >followers.... > >I haven't seen it expressed this way yet, but to me I think the true >followers of any true traditional religion (and in this, I personally >include Buddhism, Taoism, etc.) are "Muslims," in the sense of "those who >submit." While the connection with Islam and these eastern religions is >not obvious, via a study of Sufism the connection becomes much clearer :) > >Wassalam, > >Farid ud-Dien Rice Dear Brothers and Sisters, Farid ud-Dien Rice has said it very well. The message of the prophets of all the world's great religions has been essentially the same, given in different ways at different times to suit the needs of those to whom the message was brought. The challenge is to find the similarities in these religions and to attempt to ignore the differences, which cause so much strife in the world. Any thinking person would agree that there is no Sufism without Islam. Those who think still deeper might conclude that there is no Islam without Sufism. THE PURPOSE OF THE SUFI MOVEMENT "The purpose of the Sufi Movement is to work towards unity. Its main object is to bring humanity, divided as it is into so many different sections, closer together in the deeper understanding of life. It is a preparation for a world service, chiefly in three ways. One way is the philosophical understanding of life; another is to bring about brotherhood among races, nations and creeds; and the third way is the meeting of the worlds greatest need, which is the religion of the day. Its work is to bring to the world that natural religion which has always been the religion of humanity. It is not a new religion; it is the same message which is being given to humanity. It is the continuation of the same ancient religion which has always existed and will always exist, a religion which belongs to all teachers and all scriptures. It is the continuation of all the great religions which have come at various times; and it is a unification of them all, which was the desire of all the prophets." >From THE UNITY OF RELIGIOUS IDEALS, VOLUME IX, THE SUFI MESSAGE OF HAZRAT INAYAT KHAN In the philosophy of Sufism, the idea of Brotherhood/Sisterhood plays a major role. This is not surprising since the unity of religions derives to a large extent from their common declaration of the important ideal: love each other as brothers and sisters, be sincere toward each other, serve each other. We may enjoy what spirituality has to offer, also in art and in culture. Especially music, the food of the soul, may help us to find the right attunement, to calm our thinking and inspire us. Sufi meetings are meant as a haven for anyone who, in one way or another, is attracted to Sufism. Here we may feel secure and receive help and support, so that together we may become stronger and in turn help others in their struggle in our complex society, where so many are victims, become depressed and live in a moral void. In VOLUME X of his Sufi Message Hazrat Inayat Khan writes: "One could have endured the absence of anything else; but the world can never be happy, nor can order or peace ever be maintained in the absence of brotherhood. This brotherhood can be learned and every person has facilities for learning it in his life. The employer who is kind and loving to his employee, who considers his employee as his brother, is blessed. A family in which all the members, whatever be their relationship, realize the idea of brotherhood in sharing pain and pleasure with one another, how happy, how blessed, that family will be! How blessed would be a nation, in which, whatever its government, whatever its constitution, there were this spirit of brotherhood between people of different position, of different rank or occupation! From whence does injustice come, from whence unfairness? It all comes from the lack of brotherhood. Think of the conditions today, the courts full of cases, the prisons full of prisoners! How many disagreements there are between people and inharmony between nations all caused by the lack of brotherhood." Warm regards, Maharaj James McCaig | Sufi Center of Washington Brotherhood/Sisterhood Representative | Keepers of Sufi Center Bookstore United States | http://guess.worldweb.net/sufi jmccaig@worldweb.net From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed Feb 7 16:54:49 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA15053; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 21:07:14 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id UAA10426; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 20:38:09 -0500 Received: from eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id UAA10292; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 20:37:21 -0500 From: aorsellidickson@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au Received: from stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au (stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au [139.230.161.10]) by eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id JAA12064 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 09:36:44 +0800 Message-Id: <199602070136.JAA12064@eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au> X-Nvlenv-01Date-Posted: 7-Feb-1996 9:44:21 -0500; at STINGRAY.ac.cowan X-Nvlenv-Content-Subject: MIND X-Nvlenv-Mts-Message-Id: A5BA1831816C2979 X-Nvlenv-Notify-On-Read: allowed X-Nvlenv-Notify-On-Refusal: allowed X-Nvlipm-Non-Standard: SMF = 000Application-name: PMAIL To: tariqas%facteur.std.com@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au Subject: MIND Date: 07 Feb 96 16:54:49 GMT X-Nvlipm-Non-Standard: SMF = 000X-NetWare-UIC: AORSELLIDICKSON Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Dear Thomas, a late response to your message 13 January. Thank you for contributing the interesting note about the brain as an artist: " Smith says that the brain learns...by exploring all the possibilities, by testing its own creations ...it learns best when it is creative" I do like this notion of the mind as an artist, especially given the fact that, as a would-be mystic, i have learnt more from poetry ,art and beauty than from anything else. Often glimpses of truth to me intuitively in form of dreams or poetry, and i do not really know what is there until it is written down. I trust this 'knowing' more than the knowledge I gain from information and research ,(though i am not unaware of the dangers of subjective insights). Nevertheless i do believe that to gain some knowledge of the functioning of our brain is important, not to claim we know all about it ( i dislike the arrogance and blindness of those who claim to have found the perfect model for the brain, and certainly i do not resonate with the paradigm of the mind as a computer), but perhaps in order to increase our wonder at the marvellous complexity we are, and to explore some different possibilites ( maybe there is a way of thinking and learning different from the logic, rational processing of information which is the demain of the cortex) To conclude, ART and SCIENCE do not mutually exclude each other, rather the opposite:, ARS SINE SCIENTIA NIHIL, SCIENTIA SINE ARTE NIHIL Paraphrasing the first part of the quote (from a countryman of mine), and adding my own'coda': Without knowledge art is nothing,, but without art, knowledge is nothing too. Best wishes, Rabia From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed Feb 7 17:19:35 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA03223; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 21:33:44 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id VAA13815; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 21:01:53 -0500 Received: from eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id VAA13773; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 21:01:46 -0500 From: aorsellidickson@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au Received: from stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au (stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au [139.230.161.10]) by eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id KAA12084 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 10:01:32 +0800 Message-Id: <199602070201.KAA12084@eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au> X-Nvlenv-01Date-Posted: 7-Feb-1996 10:09:08 -0500; at STINGRAY.ac.cowan X-Nvlenv-Content-Subject: Nightingale and rose? X-Nvlenv-Mts-Message-Id: 84C01831816C2979 X-Nvlenv-Notify-On-Read: allowed X-Nvlenv-Notify-On-Refusal: allowed X-Nvlipm-Non-Standard: SMF = 000Application-name: PMAIL To: tariqas%facteur.std.com@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au Subject: Nightingale and rose? Date: 07 Feb 96 17:19:35 GMT X-Nvlipm-Non-Standard: SMF = 000X-NetWare-UIC: AORSELLIDICKSON Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: On 1 february Lisa wrote: Asalmu Aleykum, A friend of mine who does not have Internet access asked me to see if anyone on tariqas knows what the symbolism of "the nightengale and the rose" is in Sufism/Islam. Any information would be appreciated! Thanks. Allah's Peace to you. ++++++++++++++ I am surprised to find no answers to this, perhaps because there is too much to say? I am sure there are on tariqas many who have more learning than me better qualified to offer suggestions. I will just say that, for me, nightingale is the soul in love with beauty(the rose), but the rose follows the sun(Divinity). The soul may find God through beauty, but as Atta'rs nightingale may also be trapped into the world of beauty and never get to the Simurgh/King. (Ref :The Parliament of Birds, by Attar) Lisa, I hope others will pick up your query and offer much more. Best wishes, Rabia