From tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Sun Jul 21 14:51:42 1996 Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 16:52:38 -0400 (EDT) From: tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Reply-To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com Subject: tariqas-digest V1 #65 tariqas-digest Monday, 15 July 1996 Volume 01 : Number 065 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Craig Johannsen Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 10:04:55 -0700 Subject: Re: verb "to be" In Russian, there _is_ a verb "to be", but it is often considered unnecessary to use it, so it is omitted. ------------------------------ From: Craig Johannsen Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 10:08:39 -0700 Subject: Re: Al-Haqq Thomas McElwain wrote: > > Ya Maarof! Assalaamu-'Alaykum rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu! > Innallaha al-Haqq! Surely there is a great reward for the One who says only > Allah is al-Haqq. To drink from the fountain of al-kauthar. God is One and > there is none besides Him. Therefore there is only one who can say I. > They killed Al-Hallaj because he said, "Ana al-Haqq." They > understood correctly that he meant that he himself was God by saying this. > Ana al-Haqq, I am truth. They might have let him live. Why should they kill > a man for telling a lie? Had any of those who agreed to his death refrained > from lying when it was to their advantage? Not one. It was not to his > advantage when Al-Hallaj told that lie. Maybe the Devil made him do it. > Of course Al-Hallaj was not God. I am God. > Ali Haydar OK, Ali. Suppose we accept that you are God. What should we do with that information? ------------------------------ From: "Michael J. Moore" Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 10:14:51 -0700 Subject: Re: Death of Innocents Martin Schell wrote: > > >Hudoyo Hupudio wrote: > >My own feelings, much coming from intuition, indicate that each child prays > >to be born into a particular situation, to a particular set of parents, and > >each has a unique past, a unique set of experiences, and a unique set of > >adventures to live through: permiting God to know self, Self, through us. > > --This reminds me of people asking "How can God let innocent children die?" > > --I tend to think nowadays that it is not the fault/karma of the innocent > children (which you might believe if you say they "chose" their situation) > but the karma of the society. If the society is full of ignorance about > the material world and how to apply spirituality to improve life, then > there will be more children dying of disease, car accidents, war, etc. > > --It is neither the fault of God, nor the fault of the "innocent" child. > > --Comments from brothers and sisters? > > martin So are you saying that the individual suffers for the sins of the group? Well I like it better than the pre-existent soul theory which reads something like: There is great suffering, But God is Good, how can we resolve this? It must be that these people really wanted to suffer and chose their situation prior to birth. Which leads to --Great, why do anything to aleviate suffering, you are only interfering and postponing someones journey to God. My own take on it is --- I just don't know. - -- Michael Moore home page --> http://home.aol.com/michaeljm8 ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 10:19:50 +0100 Subject: Soul Cry I miss Morning Bear, I miss the one peeking behind the Tamarack, winking then Where can I find the white Buffalow. What do the graves in Bosnia say. Who kisses the tears of orphans, who brings the straight arrow and the pipe of peace. Who made the statue of Budhi and did not hear a word that was said. Who wrote the poem, and where did it go. It was Jesus who split the cell of death and rose, and where do we go... It was Mohammed in the cave, when illumination came...and moses on a mountain fell down under the Light that pierces the shadow. A man was killed for saying I am God, I am truth...it was a transformation that few can understand...except the pearl without the shell. Why is it when a seed grows into a tree, someone wants to cut it down, make into temple houses, or burn it, and cut it down. There are some who know the unity of the Universal language and they are little understood. Who understands the Seer, so few. Who sees anything with his own eyes, very few. But through the shadow, a love shatters all form and spreads its wings. One feather is light, just the way truth is. I feel so helpless sometimes, a simple mureed with Poetry that obliterates me. Kaffee Lalla. ------------------------------ From: barzakh@idola.net.id Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 00:27:39 +0700 Subject: Re: Reading Bismillahirrahmanirrahim. Assalamu'alaykum, Dear all, Thank you for your comments about my posting. I hope it didn't make you burn or throw away your books. :-) I'm sorry for my late comment because my phone is still out of order, and I can only use my internet access twice a week via my friend's computer. A few days ago, I asked my Sheykh about his "annoying" little note. His answer was rather long, but what he pointed was that do not let any book blinded you from your own Self. Don't make them as references to know Who you are. "Know thyself and you'll know God". So don't throw away your books. But if there are any of you insist to do so, please throw them to me. :-) Remember that the first verse of Qur'an (chronologically) was about the command to read (Iqra). And it was not only the books that God instructed us to read, but everything that we could read (our belongings, friends, neighbours, house, computer, someone we talk to, birds on the tree, the clouds, the stars, etc.) using the right method to Read so that we could know Who they are. Hmm, I think I've talked too much. (I wonder if I really could Read them right). Anyway, I hope sometime I would be able to know Who is the Real Me (Who is typing this e-mail), and also Who is the Real You (Who is reading this e-mail). Love and love and love to all of you... Wassalamu'alaykum, your "book-worm" brother, Michael Roland (My Sufi Foundation homepage address has changed to: http://www.yellowpages.co.id/life/barzakh/) ------------------------------ From: Jim Bier Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 14:00:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Soul Cry Thank you for your posts, they usually expressin poetry about the profound joy and sadness of the mystical perspective that is lacking in our wordy world of logic and rationality. I share this perspective when it breaks in on me and your words are a good waym for that to happen. Keep sharing, please. gratefully, jim On Mon, 15 Jul 1996, Jacquie Weller wrote: > I miss Morning Bear, I miss the one peeking behind the Tamarack, winking > then Where can I find the white Buffalow. What do the graves in Bosnia say. > Who kisses the tears of orphans, who brings the straight arrow and the pipe > of peace. Who made the statue of Budhi and did not hear a word that was said. > Who wrote the poem, and where did it go. > It was Jesus who split the cell of death and rose, and where do we go... > It was Mohammed in the cave, when illumination came...and moses on a mountain > fell down under the Light that pierces the shadow. > A man was killed for saying I am God, I am truth...it was a transformation > that few can understand...except the pearl without the shell. > Why is it when a seed grows into a tree, someone wants to cut it down, make > into temple houses, or burn it, and cut it down. > There are some who know the unity of the Universal language and they are > little understood. Who understands the Seer, so few. Who sees anything with > his own eyes, very few. But through the shadow, a love shatters all form and > spreads its wings. One feather is light, just the way truth is. > I feel so helpless sometimes, a simple mureed with Poetry that obliterates me. > Kaffee Lalla. > > > ------------------------------ From: Lilyan Kay Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 11:16:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Abrogating and abogated verses asalaam-u-aleikum That is a beautiful meditation on portions of Sura al-Fatiha. It seems to me that he left a good bit of it out, but I am not qualified to make a judgement, being neither an Arabic speaker nor a Qur'anic scholar. I would be interested to hear any reactions from Arabic speakers who have studied Qur'an in some depth. This for me crystallizes (so to speak) a problem I have with what little I know of latter day mysticism, New Age religion, etc. It seems that things that have fallen out of fashion are left out. This is justified by the assumption that somehow today we have progressed, that unlike the ignorant folk of the past we no longer need to hear the things that coincidentally clash with today's conventional wisdom. It is another aspect of the conundrum of time, abrogation and the like. Not in any way claiming to have answers, I would say at the least that it is easy to be confused by these issues and important to have a sound basis for any judgements one makes. That is, it is not enough that something feels good or sounds right to make it truly so. I think this may relate to what Abdkabir and GB Shaw were saying about the road(s) to hell. The 'good intentions' I think are not truly good intentions, but rather the nafs' rationalizations. Lily On Mon, 15 Jul 1996, frank gaude wrote: > Hello, everybody! > > Lilyan Kay wrote: > > > > asalaam-u-aleikum > > > > I don't understand - what is this a transliteration of? I thought > > transliteration meant representing the sounds of a language written in a > > different alphabet. > > You are correct... I likely should describe such work as an interpretation. > > > Is this in some way related to Sura Al Fatiha? > > It is Al-Fatiha! but seen through the eye of a modern mystic. > > Just think, Lilyan, there was a time "before we rayed into existence... > [then] creating warmth... without regard to what was lost or gained." The > thought puzzles, amazes. > > Peace, dear one - tanzen > > > On Sun, 14 Jul 1996, frank gaude wrote: > > > > > > > > Saadi Shakur Chisti (Neil Douglas-Klotz) transliteration: > > > > > > We affirm that > > > the next thing that happens occurs only > > > > > > With the Divine Void calling our name before > > > we rayed into existence. > > > > > > From the Original Womb comes both grace and mercy. > > > The first, a supreme unconditioned love: > > > before any need arose, a vital power enveloped itself, > > > creating warmth, heat, radiation from a center > > > without regard to what was lost or gained, > > > a natural gift of the Cosmic Self. > > > This always continues. > > > > > > The second, a tender response to all cries, > > > all unfulfilled potential: > > > the primordial pull of cosmic kinship bears > > > acts of compassion, responding to all needs > > > as though heard for the first time-- > > > the breath of love in response to a sighing universe, > > > the quality of mercy. > > > > > > We begin > > > by means of the Entire Unfolding Cosmos > > > from whose Womb is born the Sun and Moon of Love. > > > ---------------- > > > > > > The whole of al-Qur'an is contained right here in the prologue. > > > It's all we need in the latter part of the 20th century. In fact > > > all we need is the first word: Bismillah! (Praise be to Allah!) > > > > > > Peace and love along precious threads, > > > > > > tanzen > > > ------------------------------ From: Lilyan Kay Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 11:23:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Thank you for the lovely Rumi poem (fwd) asalaam-u-aleikum And also accept my thanks, Tanzen. I have also sent the poem to a friend who has been short on hope for some time now. Omid, your message was truncated. I hope you are all right. Lily > > Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 17:54:16 -0400 (EDT) > From: Omid Safi > To: frank gaude > Cc: Tariqas Mail List , > Winged Heart Mail List > Subject: Thank you for the lovely Rumi poem > Dear Tanzen: > Greetings of peace and love...I wanted to thank you from the depth of my > heart. The poem of Rumi was truly and honestly a God-sent. It brought > such a ray of light and hope, not to mention perspective, to this tired > heart of mine. I have recently undergone > > walk in light... > a friend, > omid > > On Thu, 11 Jul 1996, frank gaude wrote: > > > Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 06:21:08 -0700 > > From: frank gaude > > To: Tariqas Mail List > > Cc: Winged Heart Mail List > > Subject: RUMI #965 > > > > MY DEAR FRIEND > > never lose hope > > when the beloved > > sends you away > > > > if you're abandoned > > if you're left hopeless > > tomorrow for sure > > you'll be called again > > > > if the door is shut > > right in your face > > keep waiting with patience > > don't leave right away > > > > seeing your patience > > your love will soon > > summon you with grace > > raise you like a champion > > > > and if all the roads > > end up in dead ends > > you'll be shown the secret paths > > no one will comprehend > > > > the beloved i know > > will give with no qualms > > to a puny ant > > the kingdom of Solomon > > > > my heart has journeyed > > many times around the world > > but has never found > > and will never find > > such a beloved again > > > > ah i better keep silence > > i know this endless love > > will surely arrive > > for you and you and you > > > > RUMI, ghazal number 965, translated March 28, 1992, by Nader > > Khalili. > > > > tanzen > > > > > > ------------------------------ From: Thomas McElwain Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 21:28:32 +0300 (EET DST) Subject: dust, divisions, and Haqq Salaamun "OK Ali. Suppose we accept that you are God. What should we do with that information?" Flame of my soul, sweet One, I kiss the face of divinity. Firstly, this is not information. It is realisation. Pantheism can be a doctrine, what I believe about them and it. I do not give such information. I said suppress all pronouns but I. I shall correct the sentence. "OK Ali. Suppose I accept that I am God. What should I do with that information?" Now the question is correct. What should I do with that? Kiss the dust until division ceases from the world of illusion. As long as reality is shattered I live in the house of war. I wipe away the tear of the Bosnian orphan best as I realise that I am God. As soon as I see the Other, I have fallen into shirk. Humanitarian ideals bring only stopgap results, preparations for another war, another despair. Only a whole Reality can break the spell of illusion. I am God and God is One can only truly make even Bosnia whole. The otherness itself, even when I say I love, is the seed of hostility. I I I there is only I, one I in Allah. But why listen to me, I am only God who once said "I feel so helpless sometimes, a simple mureed with poetry that obliterates me." Ali Haydar ------------------------------ From: Lilyan Kay Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 11:37:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Reading asalaam-u-aleikum Another thing to consider is that the word we translate as 'read' also means 'recite'. So the Qur'anic command to read does not exclude those people who are illiterate, preliterate or aliterate. Lily ------------------------------ From: Lilyan Kay Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 11:44:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Muslim Woman of Bosnia asalaam-u-aleikum Lalla, you and others may be interested in an organization called "Women for Women in Bosnia". It is organized by women, but you do not have to be a woman to be a sponsor. If you wish to be a sponsor, they will match you to a woman and her family. You send some money to them each month, you can also send gifts and they encourage letter writing back and forth (they translate the letters). The address and phone # are: Women for Women in Bosnia 1725 K St. NW, Suite 611 Wash. D.C. 20006 (202) 822-1391 Lily On Sun, 14 Jul 1996, Jacquie Weller wrote: > I read today about mass burial grounds were found of the husbands of Muslim > Woman who are left without financial help since their husbands were there > sole providers, OTHER than ALLAH. This was in our local paper, so I imagine > if you watch the news which I don't much, there will be more about this. I > cannot imagine what it would be like to live in a place where wholesale > killing, murder, and death is all around. Let us hope that Americans, and > other countries will aid these woman and their children. > Kaffea Lalla > > ------------------------------ From: Richard Rozsa Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 11:33:54 -0700 Subject: Volume of mail Dear friends and members of the tariqas e-list, May this find one and all well. Of late, there has been a huge volume of mail on this list. Since Friday, I've received more than 150 messages and this has been the normal amount of late. Some have sent more than 20 messages in just three days. To be clear, I'm not asking people to stop sending mail. As far as this person is concerned, the responsibility for action resides with each individual. We each act continuously, knowing our motivation or not. While one suspects that being "compelled" by one's Lord to action is a rare occasion, to presume the knowledge of the workings of the Absolute would be bad form. It is also not my wish to request an atmosphere of "biting one's tongue." There have been several threads that while they have at first seemed personal (and therefore, none of my business since not directed to me personally), through work at extracting the substance in a message, inner biases and understandings have come to light. With all this said, I'd be very grateful for any techniques that have been successfully used for dealing with this volume of mail. It has been too much lately to give the proper attention to each message. If you'd like to send mail directly to me, I'll compile any messages received (not requested to be private) in a single mail and forward to the tariqas list for any of the many people there that might be interested. All the best, Richard Rozsa ------------------------------ From: Thomas McElwain Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 22:25:34 +0300 (EET DST) Subject: Al-Haqq I startled you when I said, "I am God." And yet you might have known me by my beard gone gray, My stopping for the shrill of turkey call, the way I lovingly caress the lingering light of day, And sniff at sassafras and goldenrod. You might have known had you but seen that I, (A man tricked out in red- and black-checked flannel shirt, A shoulder stoop and balding, tracing toe in dirt The hometown street before me lying brown, inert,) Raise longing eyes towards the mountain sky. You could have stopped to talk with God a bit About the possibility of floods next year, About the heavy pumpkins and the corn in ear, And where I saw a copperhead, and where a deer, If you had seen God sitting where I sit. You called the mental institution so God might not have to spend the night in maybe snow And certain frost, that God might have a place to go Between the coldly starry sky and frozen sod. I startled you when I said, "I am God." Ali Haydar Tanzen questions: Dear heart, I am that I am in Seneca is ne' i' nae ne' n-i'. Somehow I don't think that helps... How much do I depend on the Mursheed? Well, it's been a long time, but the Mursheed is under my skin somehow. Does God take sides in the issues of the day? There is only one issue, but it doesn't have any sides. What day it is doesn't matter. Going to bed now, I'll dream of Lake Tahoe somewhere out there beside my foot. Ali ------------------------------ From: "Erik S. Ohlander" Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 19:44:53 Subject: RE: Jafar al-Sadiq Weren't the Shi'a hostile to the Sufis prior to the establishment of the Safavids in the 16th century? Erik. >This man was the sixth Imam. The Encyclopedia of Islam describes >him as an alchemist. Was he a sufi? > >martin > > ------------------------------ From: frank gaude Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 13:28:07 -0700 Subject: Re: meditation and sticky threads... CWoodsong@aol.com wrote: > > Dear tanzen! :) > > >No. It is the way of the intellect, the way of the head... that mind that > >connects spirit to body, brain. And of course brain gets and gives signals > >from > >every cell in the body. Mind connects body to spirit and spirit connects to > >universe. All is connected. Subconscious (instinct), conscious (intellect), > >superconscious (intuition), each are minds with spirit behind them... and > >each > >with communication channels, between themselves and "outer" world, called > >"sticky > >threads" or strings or cords, that carry messages of coordination. Channels > >to both inner and outer worlds open as our conscious opens. > > I think i'm beginning to get this... :) Coordination? Yes. Your conscious mind, the thing you call "me", is the one to do the coordinating between low-self (instinct) and High Self (intuition). > Between and among the > 'three'... or between the three and the "outer"? both? Both... always consider the "three" is the whole you as an entity, as an aspect of The One, The Beloved, Allah. This "you" is yourself... when you have coordinated enough, that self becomes Self. Old false ego will have been turned into Real ego. The whole experiment of existence is to unite the various parts of your being in willing cooperation with the Source, Abwoon, that perfection which encompasses all, is The One, the only real. What is this "experiment"? God getting to know Self through self, through the creation. If you find this expression a "hard saying", try Michel Durant's enneagon, posted by Martin Schell this morning. it doesn't get any better than this. Another way: Love Allah enough and all is accomplished! This sounds simple, but to love Allah that much requires you to willing love all creation first! Try it. Is it to your liking? Is it efficient? Only "you" know. > Messages of coordination? please.... a little more, sir? :) Friendly thoughts from will (spirit) that move two minds: the mind of High Self, the mind of low-self. Communication from your mind to the mind of High Self occurs through the mind of low-self. Why should this be so? > Does meditation open these channels? Well, meditation clears out all the old stuff, the historical vibrations, that keep you in your place, that defeat transformation of you into an efficient knowledge machine that has wings, that can fly. > How to 'focus'? WHAT to focus... simply attention on > what is ... Anyone? Consciousness. Oh, to be conscious! :) Start with simply relaxing the physical, then the mental, and observing all your thoughts, your emotions, and how low-self is really running "your" show. Pull low-self into working with you (make friends with your closest neighbor)... so that your actions are now from your consciousness. Your consciousness is "third force".... Surprise! Also remember that low-self does a super job of managing your bodily functions without your conscious interference; if fact it is your interference that gets you sick, your negative thinking, your lack of love. Low-self knows all your (its) past and how you came to be what you are... so think accordingly. (High Self has a much bigger picture than either you or your low-self.) The stuff you don't like coming out of you, coordinate into something you do like... this is getting healthy... real wholly. See yourself has whole and pass that image to low-self... let it know you wish to move into the Light... when low-self believes you are serious it will cooperate... from then on, life is bliss... the two of you, made into one, gets to join with High Self and heaven is your oyster! Trust your teacher (High Self)... > there...> > apologies to Yusof? (Cat Stevens)> Sounds like Yusof is teacher... yes, Teacher! tanzen, passing into the hand of the Wind ------------------------------ From: barzakh@idola.net.id Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 03:54:00 +0700 Subject: Re: Individuality After Merging Bismillahirrahmanirrahim. Assalamu'alaykum, Dear Hudoyo, Please forgive this dumb brain of mine who is trying to share some opinions. At 09:54 PM 7/11/96 +0700, you wrote: > > When Hudoyo merges completely with the Absolute, will > Hudoyo's personality remain? Will Hudoyo's individuality > remain? Will he be conscious of both? > IMHO, we cannot merge completely with the Absolute, but only be able to approach Him to a limit (the seventh stage) allowed for human to reach (Prophet Muhammad SAW had reached it). I believe the higher stages can be reached after the Judgment Day. The Journey to God is an endless Journey. He is The Un-Limited. > What will happen with his Individuality after his death? > Will he be reborn again? Or will he continue existing > as an individual somewhere else? > IMHO, our physical body, which is now in the Physical Plane (Al-Alam Al-Atsar), will return to earth. Our Soul (Ruh), which is now in the Spiritual Plane (Al-Alam Ar-Ruh), will return to God. Ruh is not a creation of God (this universe and everything in it are His creation - including angels, satans, jinns, stars, galaxies, etc.). Ruh is God's "breath" and will wait for the Judgment Day at a place between this "lower" universe and the "upper" universe (this place is called "Al Barzakh" - the partition?). Our Will (intentions, ideas, hopes, etc.) will remain in the Idealistic Plane (Al-Alam Al-Mithal) which can be seen by some paranormal as ghosts (which resembles our physical forms). They are not jinns. < Jinns are another creature who are like human - have Free Will - but live in another dimension. They can die, they have their own Ruh, and will be trialed at the Judgment Day >. IMHO, someone's Will can sometimes emerges in another person after his/her death. This is called Reincarnation by the Hindus and Buddhists. So every single human (and jinn) is unique, there are no two identical individuality ever in this universe. > What exists before the Big Bang, and what will remain > after the Big Crunch? Was Time there before and will > it still be around after? > IMHO, Time (the 4th dimension) was created by God along with this Universe, and the same goes with the 5th, 6th,....dimensions. Before the Big Bang there is only God, alone. He created this universe because He doesn't want to be alone. He want us to be His dialogue partner. So he send us all His messengers to teach us how to Talk with Him. IMHO, at The Big Crunch (Dooms Day) all dimensions (incl. Time) will ceased to exist. But God will re-create again another universe to trial all humans and jinns, which we call The Judgment Day. Between Dooms Day and Judgment Day, (where no dimension exists) there is only God, alone again. >To me at my current stage of my journey home, all attempts >to answer all those questions will only provide me with >dogmas. Or should we try to answer at all, which is after >all the propensity of the human intellection? > I'm also a novice at this Path. So please forgive me if my opinions are incorrect. God knows. IMHO, answers are not too important. Our daily actions are. May God show us the Right Path to Him. Wassalamu'alaykum, with love from your novice brother, Michael Roland ------------------------------ End of tariqas-digest V1 #65 ****************************