From tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Mon Jul 29 21:09:15 1996 Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 17:29:06 -0400 (EDT) From: tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Reply-To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com Subject: tariqas-digest V1 #85 tariqas-digest Saturday, 27 July 1996 Volume 01 : Number 085 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: gberlind@crl.com (Gary Berlind) Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 16:39:25 -0800 Subject: Re: Milad_un_Nabi Conference >July 27, 1996 >75 N. 11th St. >San Jose, Ca ***DOES ANYBODY KNOW AT WHAT TIME OF DAY THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN??** > >Keynote speaker - Mawlana Shaykh Nazim Adil Haqqani > >His Eminence Shaykh Muhammad Nazim Adil al-Qubrusi, the Grand Mufti of Cyprus, >is the Leader of the WORLDWIDE ISLAMIC NAQSHBANDI INSTITUTE of EDUCATION. In >addtion to being a scholar of Hanafi fiqh and the current Grand Shaykh of the >Naqshbandi order, he is a shaykh and murshid of the Qasiri, Chishti, Kubrawi >and Suhrawardi orders. Shaykh Muhammad Nazim has been a reviver of Islam in >Turkey and has campaigned against its secularization. He is the highest Islamic >religious authority in Turkey and Cyprus, and he is the most famous religious >figure for the Turkish people. > >There are also about 6 other speakers. If you want more information >just ask! This will be a once in a lifetime event. (Arn't they all.) ;) >-- >Michael Moore home page --> http://home.aol.com/michaeljm8 ------------------------------ From: Martin Schell Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 07:55:32 +0700 Subject: Re: physical prowess At 10:31 AM 7/25/96 -0400, you wrote: >are the Marathon runs an example of a quickie contest? Why all this criticism >of others? I'm sure that if we limited our criticism to ourselves we would >not soon run out of work. > - --Who are the "others"? We are all one humanity aren't we? So, I AM criticizing "myself". - --I said "most" events, not all. - --BTW, the original marathon was a roundtrip, so the guy wasn't in a state of collapse at the end of the first 26 miles. Somehow, HIS culture knew something about the connection of the body to the Divine Will. Our hitech culture has yet to produce such a result... martin ------------------------------ From: "Ivan J. Rumi" Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 08:30:23 +0600 (GMT+0600) Subject: Re: Sufi Book Catalog Dear Friends !!! Assalamu'alaykum....well.It's hard for me to write in Arabian :)) I want to ask you , is that possible to find any picture of Rumi . It's really interesting to see him...Is there any pictures of Him..or not :( Thank you very much for this list of books that I can find by net . It's great that now I can find it :) Thank you very much. > I hope this info will be helpful for those who want to purchase Sufi > literature (in English); maybe brother Ivan in Kyrgyztan or brother Maarof > in Malaysia. Thank you Brother for your care and help :) Ivan ------------------------------ From: jabriel@peoples.net (Jabriel Hanafi) Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 23:05:03 -0500 Subject: See you hopefully next week Well I am going to be moving toorrow. I will be back on as soon as possible: hopefully next week. Thanks to each of you for being in the world with me, for stretching toward unknown heights,for being on the same path which we are each blessed (from time to time) to see the same, and from time to time to see diffrently. Jabriel - ----------------------------------------- Jabriel Hanafi Pivotal Point Dynamics ------------------------------ From: ASHA101@aol.com Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 01:08:57 -0400 Subject: Re: modest clothing Dear Martin, and one more question: What is modesty? how have you been taught about it in your tariqa, by your teacher, etc.? - - A ------------------------------ From: Gale Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 22:09:50 -0700 Subject: Back to veiling (yawn) Lily, I can assure you veiling doesn't push any of my personal buttons. = My information on the rate of glaucoma and incidence of eye disorders = among Muslim women who veil in exceptionally hot climates comes from a = Dutch official of the World Health Organization and friend who assisted = my efforts when I directed a social service project in a New Delhi = Muslim slum (or to be less crude, a basti). I guess when you see day in = and day out women wearing their borkhas and in purdeh coming into your = clinic with eye complaints and exhibiting signs of early stage = blindness, in 100 plus degree dry heat, you begin wondering whether this = was really God's intention. Otherwise I can respect and honor custom, = but it doesn't mean I have to personally nor actively support it. Yet, = it does make any medical efforts to remedy the problem somewhat futile. Blessings to you, Nur Jemal ------------------------------ From: Thomas McElwain Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 08:29:41 +0300 (EET DST) Subject: re: shadow of the poker Simon Bryquer writes, "he is merely a shadow of the poker." Why waste time elevating Ali Haydar? What does it matter what he is? Was that question not resolved in a dialogue some time ago? "Alright, so we accept that you are God. What are we supposed to do with that information?" "Let me correct the sentence. 'Alright, so I accept that I am God. What am I supposed to do with that realization?" Better to stop swallowing grape seeds and crack the nut. Better to write "I am God" than "he is merely a shadow of the poker." When Hajji Bektash tore the hijab off women in the street and sent them to school to learn to read, one realized al-Haqq. When the pious Dervish Hasan, who had never tasted alcohol in his life, got drunk on a cup of wine during Ramadhan and rushed through the mosque during dhohr prayer, one realized al-Haqq. When there are no hijabs, when all the women can read, and the belly has its daily share of whiskey, what can a mere cup of wine do? When tolerance becomes conventional and the polite Sufis eat daily dinners of pork bought with interest money, what is the need any longer of realization? It is the distinction between the intellectual acceptance that all of you are God (ah, the blessings of democracy) and the realization that I am God that is hypocrisy. There is no distinction between intellectual acceptance and realization. The worship of mental states is idolatry. Ali Haydar could at will produce delta and theta waves in "a normal waking state" twenty years before realizing that I am God. With the same effort Ali Haydar can now produce beta waves and still realize that I am God. What is all this foolishness? When I turn on the light, the cockroaches run for darkness, for fear that all of their sparkling personalities will disappear in the One. Granted, a cockroach is a marvelous creature. But the illusion of a sparkling personality does not melt away into nothingness, it melts into a true face, a real personality, al-Haqq. No, I do not need a cup of wine these days. Even a drunken orgy with dancing on Indian graves will do nothing for me. What I need is a circumcision, a hijab, a prayer carpet. A prayer carpet for posturing and posing the namaz with a sincere niyat. I am not here to teach, nor am I here to pose. I am here to realize that I am God. Love, peace, and harmony From Ali Haydar ------------------------------ From: Lilyan Kay Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 22:36:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Back to veiling (yawn) asalaam-u-aleikum Sorry to have bored you, Nur Jemal, I on the other hand am fascinated by the account of your experiences. I suppose also, narcissistically any discussion of things affecting women is especially interesting to me. I am driven to boredom by abstract discussions, but since others seem to enjoy them instead of yawning in front of them I just delete. Still, I am puzzled by the association between face veiling (I can see now why this makes you especially angry, having dealt with the horrible physical effects - I am sure the psychological effects are in their way equally damaging) and Iranian women athletes (who don't wear face veils in their culture) and little girl gymnasts. I am wondering if there is some big concept here I am missing, or if it is a matter of lumping apples with oranges. wasalaam Lily ------------------------------ From: Simon Bryquer Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 03:22:30 -0700 Subject: Re: shadow of the poker Thomas McElwain wrote: snip >A prayer carpet snip ====================================================================== I hope your prayer carpet brings you out of the shadow. Good luck friend, Simon Bryquer ------------------------------ From: Simon Bryquer Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 03:22:30 -0700 Subject: Re: shadow of the poker Thomas McElwain wrote: snip >A prayer carpet snip ====================================================================== I hope your prayer carpet brings you out of the shadow. Good luck friend, Simon Bryquer ------------------------------ From: maarof@pc.jaring.my Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 15:46:07 +0800 Subject: Shaykh Nazim, Shaykh Mahmud Quote: "I don't wish to steal Shaykh's Nazim's thunder" Salam to my brothers, Farid and Michael Shaykh Nazim is "famous" in Malaysia because of his mureed, Prince Ashman (son of present Sultan of Perak and former King of Malaysia). Shaykh Nazim is also reported to be in good term with Sultan of Brunei (the richest man in the world?) and was reported that he bought a building in London for Naqsgabandis. My information on Shaykh Mahmud Es'ad Cosan is very limited. Do you know where I can get more information on him? salam maarof ------------------------------ From: Simon Bryquer (by way of Thomas McElwain ) Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 13:46:12 +0300 (EET DST) Subject: Re: shadow of the poker Thomas McElwain wrote: snip >A prayer carpet snip ====================================================================== I hope your prayer carpet brings you out of the shadow. Good luck friend, Simon Bryquer Dear Simon: I too can be insistent. The proper response is not: I hope your prayer carpet brings you out of the shadow. Rather it is: I hope my prayer carpet brings me out of the shadow. Peace, Ali Haydar ------------------------------ From: Maqam1@aol.com Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 09:55:28 -0400 Subject: Re: Shaykh Nazim, Shaykh Mahmud In a message dated 96-07-27 03:48:18 EDT, you write: > "I don't wish to steal Shaykh's Nazim's thunder" > >Salam to my brothers, Farid and Michael > >Shaykh Nazim is "famous" in Malaysia because of his mureed, Prince Ashman >(son >of present Sultan of Perak and former King of Malaysia). >Shaykh Nazim is also reported to be in good term with Sultan of Brunei >(the richest man in the world?) and was reported that he bought >a building in London for Naqsgabandis. > >My information on Shaykh Mahmud Es'ad Cosan is very limited. Do you know >where I can get more information on him? > >salam >maarof As-Salamu Alaikum Maarof I would just like to add MHO to what you've said no one can take Sh. Nazim's blessings to be the Grand Shakyh of the Naqshabandi Order as one who was with the order 14 years I must say he is the one who is considered most to be in charge, I just feel there are other issues to be discussed and ALLAH has given us all free will so if some chose to follow Sh. Nazim and some Sh. Mahmud then Al-Hamdulilah. In my travels upon the path for my short 16-17 years information has come to me of a Shakyh in India who claim to be the Mawlana of the Naqshabandi Order??????. My "Q" to all is who can take a blessing or the Station of the Shakyh other than ALLAH? Your Brother Sh. J-Kenyatta ------------------------------ From: Maqam1@aol.com Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 10:04:49 -0400 Subject: Re: modest clothing In a message dated 96-07-26 19:16:29 EDT, you write: >It seems that modesty in clothing is a matter of culture, custom, and >climate, not strictly a matter of religion. Questions: > >1. What is/are the standard(s) for "modest" public clothing for Muslims? > >2. Within any given standard, what are the differences for men and women? > >3. Where do these standards arise from? > >4. How and why do standards change (if at all)? As-Salamu Alaikum I would give you the best source to begin to answer your questions; Go to the Quran and read Surah: 33:ayat 59, Surah: 24:ayats 30-31 Your Brother Sh. J-Kenyatta ------------------------------ From: maarof@pc.jaring.my Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 23:17:08 +0800 Subject: Shakyh in India >As-Salamu Alaikum >Maarof I would just like to add MHO to what you've said no one can take Sh. >Nazim's blessings to be the Grand Shakyh of the Naqshabandi Order as one who >was with the order 14 years I must say he is the one who is considered most >to be in charge, I just feel there are other issues to be discussed and ALLAH >has given us all free will so if some chose to follow Sh. Nazim and some Sh. >Mahmud then Al-Hamdulilah. In my travels upon the path for my short 16-17 >years information has come to me of a Shakyh in India who claim to be the >Mawlana of the Naqshabandi Order??????. > >My "Q" to all is who can take a blessing or the Station of the Shakyh other >than ALLAH? > >Your Brother > >Sh. J-Kenyatta > Salam and may Allah rewards the brothers/sisters in Maqam-r-Ruh, Can you provide more details about this Shaykh in India? His name, background etc. thanking you in advance salam maarof ------------------------------ From: maarof@pc.jaring.my Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 01:04:53 +0800 Subject: Shariah, Bektash, Hasan [...] > When Hajji Bektash tore the hijab off women in the street and sent >them to school to learn to read, one realized al-Haqq. > When the pious Dervish Hasan, who had never tasted alcohol in his >life, got drunk on a cup of wine during Ramadhan and rushed through the >mosque during dhohr prayer, one realized al-Haqq. [...] May Allah rewards and forgives His slaves. The tales above IMO is a different form in realization of al-Haqq. Hajji Bektash is merely following the first commandment, that is the first duty of Muslims to learn and acquire knowledge. This follows the Shariah. It might be perceived as he broke the Shariah, but he is not. The second tale of Hassan is "intoxicated" when he breaks/leaves the Shariah. And then "realized" his mistakes and "rushed" to be back on the path of Shariah. So, my conclusion from these stories is we are not allowed to leave the Shariah. God knows best. salam maarof ------------------------------ From: Michael Moore Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 10:35:18 -0700 Subject: Re: Milad_un_Nabi Conference Gary Berlind wrote: > > >July 27, 1996 > >75 N. 11th St. > >San Jose, Ca > > ***DOES ANYBODY KNOW AT WHAT TIME OF DAY THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN??** > > > It seems I have misplaced my brochure but I do remember something like registration at 5:30. I plan on being there at 5:00 pm. >-- > >Michael Moore home page --> http://home.aol.com/michaeljm8 ------------------------------ From: Lilyan Kay Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 10:51:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: shadow of the poker asalaam-u-aleikum Or we could say "Gabool Basheh" all to one another. This means "May it be accepted" in Farsi, it is said to one who has just finished salaat. Lily On Sat, 27 Jul 1996, Simon Bryquer wrote: > Thomas McElwain wrote: > snip > > >A prayer carpet > > snip > ====================================================================== > > I hope your prayer carpet brings you out of the shadow. > > Good luck friend, > > Simon Bryquer > > > Dear Simon: > > I too can be insistent. The proper response is not: I hope your prayer > carpet brings you out of the shadow. Rather it is: I hope my prayer carpet > brings me out of the shadow. > > Peace, > Ali Haydar > > > ------------------------------ From: Michael Moore Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 11:20:43 -0700 Subject: Ali Haydar Greetings, I may not be understanding you correctly. But if you are God then what is left for you to do? You have found the treasure and the treasure is you. So, there is no reason for you to continue on this plane. It seems to me that Allah has created us to seek the treasure, not to find the treasure. The path is the goal. If you are God, then you are of no use to yourself. But maybe I have not understood. Best wishes, - -Michael- ------------------------------ From: barzakh@idola.net.id Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 01:47:15 +0700 Subject: Rumi picture Bismillahirrahmanirrahim. Assalamu'alaykum, Dear Ivan, At 08:30 AM 7/27/96 +0600, you wrote: > >Assalamu'alaykum....well.It's hard for me to write in Arabian :)) > You can just write 'Peace' or "God bless you', just the same. >I want to ask you , is that possible to find any picture of Rumi . >It's really interesting to see him...Is there any pictures of Him..or not :( > There are some pictures of him in the many homepages about him. You can try: - - Article about Rumi by Haqqani Foundation at: http://www.best.com/~informe/mateen/Sufi/Sayiddina_Rumi.html (very small picture of Rumi) - - Shamsuddin's Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/1889/ (big picture of Rumi with whirling dervishes) - - Beautiful pictures of Rumi's tomb and his hometown, Konya, at: http://www.ege.edu.tr/Turkiye/si/Konya.html (no picture of Rumi) - - Complete links to Rumi homepages (life and poems) at: http://www.armory.com/~thrace/sufi/ (no picture of Rumi) But I think his picture is not too important. (All pictures of Rumi are only artists' imagination) His teachings and wisdom are. Anyway, happy surfings in Rumi's Ocean of Love. :-) Wassalamu'alaykum, your brother in the Ocean, Michael Roland ============================ Come, come whoever you are, An unbeliever, a fire-worshipper, come. Our caravan is not of desperation. Even if you have broken your vows a hundred times, Come, come again. ===by Mevlana Jalaluddin Rumi=== ------------------------------ From: durrani@algonet.se (Pyar Khan Durrani) Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 23:27:03 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: Naqshis and shaykhs Concerning the=20 Naqshbandiyya in Turkey There are several branches of the Naqshbandiyya tariqa all over the world.= =20 Some of them are losely connected to each other, but there exists no overall= =20 cooperation and "supreme" leadership. It is therefore impossible to claim to= =20 be leader of this tariqa (or tariqas) as most of them exists independantly= =20 of each other. The Naqshbandiyya is one of the larger tariqa-families and one can find them= =20 in Turkey, Bosnia, the Subcontinent, South-East Asia, Central Asia and=20 China, in some arab countries, Caucasus and may other places. There must be= =20 hundreds of diffrent shaykhs with large or small following, perhaps not=20 knowing of all the others. One of the strongest bases of the Naqshi-tariqa is in Turkey. There we find= =20 three-four big branches of this tariqa and hundreds of minor ones.=20 One is led by Mahmud Ustaosmanoglu, and his is a very traditional one. It's= =20 adherents belong mainly to the rural areas and are shopkeepers and such,=20 probably the largest tariqa in Turkey. They all wear long traditional robes,= =20 beard and a turban. Women are dressed like the iranian, in black. It is=20 considered a bit conservative and hostile against modern "innovations". They= =20 are usually very pious and run many madrasas teaching the Qur'an, arabic=20 etc. Their centre is near Fatih Cami (mosque). Another one was Mahmud Sami Ramazanoglu (d. 1984), it is still a big Naqshi= =20 tariqa, but without leadership. One can say it has split up into different= =20 groups, but that they still maintain some solidarity with their previous=20 shaykh. It is more of an intellectua group and publishes a lot. The third big Naqshi group is led by Mahmud Es'ad Cosan (pronounced=20 Djoshaan). He is a former Professor of Litterature at Ankara Uni, and wrote= =20 his doctorate on Haji Bektshi Veli.=20 His murids are mainly students or professional academics. Some lines of his= =20 in english you can find here: http://npd1.ufes.br/~odilea/smhome.html They seem to comprehend the Naqshbandiyya way in a very sophisticated and=20 beautiful way. They carry on the classical sufi tradition of this silsila=20 and organize many (tens of thousands of murids, men and women) seekers and= =20 still they are very "modern" in their approach: printing books, having=20 schools, camps, three-four big magazines ( Isl=E2m, kadin ve Aile, Ilm ve=20 Sanat etc.), radio channel, influencing political life, have large=20 companies, organizing events and conferances, and so on..=20 Their centre is at Iskanderpasha mosque in Fatith distict in Istanbul. They= =20 have murids in Ausrtalia, Germany, Britain, Sweden, Denmark, US and other=20 places in the West and a wide network (maily amongst turks) around the= globe. They carry on the silsila from G=FCm=FCshanevi, a big religious leader at= the=20 end of the Ottoman era, who led the main tekke (lodge) of Istanbul at that= =20 time. And the previous shaykh of this tariqa (before Mahmud Es'ad) was=20 Mehmet Zahid Kotku (d.1980). He was close to what one could call a=20 "grandshaykh" in Turkey because of his influence. Many of the leading=20 politicians in Turkey of today: Necmettin Erbakan, Korkut Ozal and the now= =20 dead Turgut Ozal were all his discples. At that time in the 70-ties, 80-ties= =20 the Naqshbandi movement and the political islamist movement was one and the= =20 same. Later on the Naqshis separated from party politics. But still most=20 Naqshi groups have huge influence on turkish politics. Some analysts have compared Shaykh Es'ads tariqa to The Muslim Brotherhood= =20 movement. And they have similarities: they both have a holistic=20 comprehension of islam, a broad movement of dedicated men and women, work=20 with massmedia and are very popular. Hassan al-Banna, the founder of The=20 Brotherhood had actually his background in the Husafiyya tariqa in Egypt,= =20 and formed the Brotherhood movement after a classical tariqa structure. The= =20 Brotherhood also have a daily wird to recite "the Mathoraat" (mainly taken= =20 from the sufi Imam Nawawis book on dhikr "Kitab al-Adhkaar"). But the turkish Naqshi movement is more milder whereas the brotherhood today= =20 has lost much of it's spiritual side, and become too political. The Shaykh Nazim group is not so large in Turkey, but had it's adherents=20 mainly among upperclass citizens.=20 There are some non-sufi groups in Turkey with it's origin in the Naqshi= tariqa:=20 Nurcu and S=FCleymaniye. Nurcu or Jamaat an-Nur is probably the largest islamic movement in Turkey=20 led by Fethullah G=FClen and founded by a very popular person in Turkey=20 Bediuzzaman Said Nursi (famous for his treatise Risale-i Nur) with Naqshi=20 background. It publishes a lot, have many schools and wants to give an image= =20 of islam as modern and scientific and positive, but no longer sees itself as= =20 a tariqa, although it is deeply spiritual in its approach. The S=FCleymaniye is a group focused on preserving the old madrasa system.= It=20 is conservative and has a strong following in Germay amongs turkish= immigrants. Today there are a lot of books published in turkish about sufism, and a=20 growing concsiousness that sufism is a living alternative. An interesting= =20 aspect is that muslims (mostly from sufi background) are leading the=20 intellectual discourse in Turkeyand found in every strata of the society. It is also very interesting that people see sufism in such a positive way in= =20 Turkey, compared to the very anti-sufi islamist movements in most arab=20 countries. That gives them a softer, more gentle islamic understanding=20 amongst turks than many other muslim societies.=20 ***Good information on this subject is available in the article on=20 Naqshbandiyya by Professor Hamid Algar in The Oxford Encyclopedia of The=20 Modern Islamic World, Oxford Uni. Press, 1995. In "Naqshbandis: Cheminements et situation actuelle d'un ordre mystique=20 musulman", edited by Marc Gaborieau et al. , Istanbul and Paris, 1990, one= =20 can find excellent articles about Naqshbandis. There are two interesting=20 articles in French, one about the contemporary Naqshis in Turkey and the=20 other about the escatological thoughts of Shaykh Nazim. And several fine=20 articles in english about the history of the order.*** w'Allahu 'alim... Wasalaam, your brother under the blue sky of the Most Loving, Pyar Khan Durrani Stockholm durrani@algonet.se http://www.algonet.se/~durrani =20 ------------------------------ End of tariqas-digest V1 #85 ****************************